blanktey blank ruger bolt guns

[Lloyd Smale]

I have the worse luck with ruger bolt rifles and accuracy. especially the old tang saftey models but not them exclusivey. I got so discusted with the wing saftey 257 roberts ive been working up loads for that i was ready to sell it. I just picked up an old tang saftey round top and took it and the 257 back out today. Best loads in either would only do 2 inch. I got so pissed i stuck them in cases and headed to the gun shop. came out with a stainless synt. 300 win mag 700 remington and 3 scopes. two leupolds and a new redfield. At least i about know this remington will shoot. Im about done with ruger 77s Ive owned at least a dozen of them and had exactly one that was an exceptional shooter. Ive yet to buy a remington or savage that wasnt a great shooter. The rugers are just an exercise in frustration to me.

[docone31]

If you take a piece of inner tube, make an hole in it, and screw down the forward reciever screw, those Blanky Blank Rugers might just suprise you.
Now, I mound all my Rugers with the front reciever screw bushed with inner tube pieces. Doesn't take much, just enough to put the screw through.

[Jack Stanley]

Lloyd , for a minute there I thought you was talking about the 77/22 and the number three I used to have . Sorry they gotcha again and I hope the new rifle works out better .

Jack

[45 2.1]

If you take a piece of inner tube, make an hole in it, and screw down the forward reciever screw, those Blanky Blank Rugers might just suprise you.
Now, I mound all my Rugers with the front reciever screw bushed with inner tube pieces. Doesn't take much, just enough to put the screw through.

Would you explain this in a little more detail please.

[Larry Gibson]

The angled front receiver screw many times also pulls the barrel down to hard into the stock which puts way too much pressure in it. I've bedded numerous of them with bedding compound. I relieve all around the recoil lug for the compound and also bed about 1 1/2" of the barrel in front of the receiver. I only tighten the action screw just enough so the bottom of the barrel just touches the stock at the forend when the barreled action is put into the stock. After curing I then free float the unbedded part of the barrel in the barrel channel. I usually adjust the triggers and have found all of the Rugers I've rebedded have shot as well as most any other factory rifle, even the vaunted M700s. Appears the inner tube tidea does somewhat the same thing.

Larry Gibson

[docone31]

I take a piece of inner tube, for example, 1/2 X 1/2". I then make an hole in the center.
I put that in the position of the front reciever screw, put the screw through it, and screw down the reciever.
This gives me, just a bit of floating, which dramatically changes the pattern down range.
A five minute free float.

[frank505]

Jeez Lloyd, ya know its because you are yooper and dem eastern guns just wont work in da UP. Hows Al?

[Lloyd Smale]

not doing to good pal. dont know if you knew but they installed a stimuator and the wires allready came loose and they have to wait another month before he heals enough that they can redo it. Hes pretty much bed and chair bound right now and has been that way for about 6 months. Good news was that when the stimualator was working it seemed to help with his pain.
Jeez Lloyd, ya know its because you are yooper and dem eastern guns just wont work in da UP. Hows Al?

[scrapcan]

I think another issue with the rugers is the notorious freebore and the rough internal finish of the bores. I will remember the inner tube method the next time I think I need to won a ruger.

[Lloyd Smale]

point is I guess a 600 dollar rifle shouldnt need inner tubes put in it to make it shoot. Remingtons, savages and even winchesters shoot right out of the box

[runfiverun]

woww.
wish i'd have known you was gettin rid of a tang safetied 257.
i can't get a remington to nothin, and iv'e broken three of thier shotguns within 6 months.
i guess it's all in how you approach things.

[9.3X62AL]

I've had incredible luck with Ruger 77 rifles. The two I still have are SUPERB, and several of the others that have gone down the road were pretty darn good, too. Of course, having said this--the next 77 I buy will shoot groups the size of basketballs--so thanks for sharing that inner tube free-float idea.

[Recluse]

Ain't it funny? I have my best luck with Savages and Winchesters, my worst luck with Ruger bolts. In shotguns, Mossberg and Remington reign supreme for me with Brownings being nothing but an exercise in absolute frustration.

I think it's something in our genetic soup. . .

:coffee:

[NHlever]

Two things make the tang safety Ruger's sensitive (besides sometimes poor barrel quality) If the front receiver screw is tightened first the angle of the screw will tip the receiver ahead. It does this because before the CNC days the receiver, and barrel channel bedding were done in different operations, and they always ran that pad ahead of the screw quite low so there wouldn't be any interference. So tightening sequence is important as is supporting that area ahead of the front screw. I've also seen a number of them that had about 50 pounds of forend tip pressure, and that is a bit much for the light barrels used.

[fishnbob]

When I ran my gun shop, I sold many rifles with scopes mounted and sighted in, in the field, not boresighted and gave the target to the new owner. In all my years, I never handed a Ruger rifle target to the owner with a group less than 1 3/4" at 100 yds. This was after bedding the receiver in the lug area out to about 2" on the barrel. Remington 700's would do that out of the box and with that amount of bedding, they would group 1/2 to 3/4". I finally got to the point that if they specified a Ruger, I would make no guarantees of accuracy.

[Lloyd Smale]

I can give you the number for the buddys gunshop if you want that ***. Its actually a real beautiful gun. the stock was refinished and has great figure and was bedded. Its not a tang safety gun though the 7mag was.
woww.
wish i'd have known you was gettin rid of a tang safetied 257.
i can't get a remington to nothin, and iv'e broken three of thier shotguns within 6 months.
i guess it's all in how you approach things.

[ktw]

You've referred to your buddy's gun shop before. I'm curious if this is Denman's, the guy up Koski Road or someone else in your area that I am not aware of.

Obligatory on-topic: I've only ever owned one Ruger 77, an old roundtop, tang safety model I bought back when I was a teenager. It shoots great. Less than 1 MOA with a load it likes, anyway.

-ktw

[.357]

never owned a 77 however a buddy of mine did got it cheap and worked for two years to find a load it liked and it shoots 1 moa however anything other then that load or factory federal 308 and it's all over and he's shooting hand sized groups.

[stephen perry]

I sighted in a Ruger 77 .257 Roberts a couple weeks ago at 25 yd. The first 2 shots were 1/4" apart. I put the gun away as all I wanted was a good POI, I got one in 2 shots. Today I will shoot a mixed bag of reloads at 100yd to get a POI an inch high at 100. My gun has a Leupold Vari-x 1 on it 3x9. The trigger has been replaced with a Timney no other upgrades.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Lloyd Smale]

to many buddys with gunshops. The gun is with ernie at wilderness sports in ishpeming. Harry Dunn is where i got the 7mag. He just sold his gunshop though and it was one of the guns he took with him. I dont know the new owner but im guessing my days of unlimited credit and guns at cost there are over. I still have an unlimited credit line at wilderness but unlike harrys, ernie makes his only living of the store and doesnt give stuff away. Even denmans isnt a bad place. He doesnt do the huge markup thing that most gunshops do now. Matter of fact i picked up two boxes of 150 grain 300 win mag fed ammo to shoot up to get the brass and they were only 20 bucks a box. I thought that was real reasonable considering gander mountain charged me 47 bucks for a box of 165 grain seirra bullets!
You've referred to your buddy's gun shop before. I'm curious if this is Denman's, the guy up Koski Road or someone else in your area that I am not aware of.

Obligatory on-topic: I've only ever owned one Ruger 77, an old roundtop, tang safety model I bought back when I was a teenager. It shoots great. Less than 1 MOA with a load it likes, anyway.

-ktw

[Lloyd Smale]

Believe me i wish it would have shot. The 257roberts is one of my favorite calibers and this was a nice gun. Id love to find another that really shot! It would be almost the like finding the holy grail to me. I kind of decided to keep my eyes open for one of the old limited run rem classics.
I sighted in a Ruger 77 .257 Roberts a couple weeks ago at 25 yd. The first 2 shots were 1/4" apart. I put the gun away as all I wanted was a good POI, I got one in 2 shots. Today I will shoot a mixed bag of reloads at 100yd to get a POI an inch high at 100. My gun has a Leupold Vari-x 1 on it 3x9. The trigger has been replaced with a Timney no other upgrades.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[NickSS]

I probably have owned a dozen ruger 77s over the years and have had very spotty luck with them accuracy wise. Some would shoot and some would not. I own two right now one I got in 1972 it is a round top in 7X57. It will and does shoot sub moa groups with some loads I developed. The other is the last bolt gun I bought. It is a heavy barrel stainless in 308 win it also shoots very well. I was very Leary of getting that one as I swore off Rugers several years before I bought it but I wanted a HB 308 and the local stores only had the Ruger so I took a chance and lucked out. Generally I stay away from all rifles made by Ruger as I have had too many bad ones. Today I buy Brownings, Sakos, or CZs for bolt guns.

[stephen perry]

My Arizona gunsmith called last night and told he would stop by next Tuesday night and drop off his Ruger .308 he is selling me. He has 2 Ruger Varmint models he shot BR cast at San Gabriel with back in the early 1970's with. The one he is keeping is a 25-06 the one he is selling me is a .308. Both guns have the same modifications-- full bedding and Canjar set triggers. Him being my smith I have no questions how he prepared the Ruger, just give me the gun so I can have at it.

He is giving me all his 30 cal Cast equipment, brass, dies, cast bullets, and doo dads, gotta have those doo dads. I have 30 cal molds form 115gr up to 220, plenty of em. I'll start with 311 41 and probably try 311 413. But I also have 311 466 and 467.

I am buying the gun because I want a test gun for my 30 bullets my only other bolt 30 is my Model 70 30-06 not what I would call a Cast Range gun, a huntin gun.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[ktw]

to many buddys with gunshops. The gun is with ernie at wilderness sports in ishpeming. Harry Dunn is where i got the 7mag. He just sold his gunshop though and it was one of the guns he took with him. I dont know the new owner but im guessing my days of unlimited credit and guns at cost there are over. I still have an unlimited credit line at wilderness but unlike harrys, ernie makes his only living of the store and doesnt give stuff away. Even denmans isnt a bad place. He doesnt do the huge markup thing that most gunshops do now. Matter of fact i picked up two boxes of 150 grain 300 win mag fed ammo to shoot up to get the brass and they were only 20 bucks a box. I thought that was real reasonable considering gander mountain charged me 47 bucks for a box of 165 grain seirra bullets!

I wish there were more shops like Wilderness/Ishpeming around (used guns, priced to sell, high turnover rate). On the flip side he isn't offering any deals on reloading components.

Larry Pifke/Iron River was also excellent but retired recently.

Tony's/Kinchloe is still around but that guy has to be in his 90's and every time you go in there you wonder if he will still be open the next time you are in town.

My all time favorite is currently Shultz/Argonne, WI. Lower turnover of used guns than Wilderness and can't buy handguns out of state, but but better deals on reloading components.

-ktw

[Shooter6br]

I have had Ruger 243V and a Ruger 220Swift V. Both shot great for a few hundred rounds.Tang safety) The problem was the angled recoil lug was compressing the wood. Bed the recoil lug area and they returned to shooting good.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup i ride ernie all the time about his loading prices. He just smiles. Good thing is he usually cuts me a bit of a break. When i went in there for the trade i picked up the 300 mag and wanted some 165s to shoot in it. He had a box of hornady 165 interlocks with the plastic tip and wanted 52 bucks for the box. My jaw about hit the floor!! I got them for 42 which i still thought was high. Asked him if he was trying to finance a trip on his harley! Bottom line is he does me right, lets me take anything home i want to try and if i want it i can take it and pay him a year from now if i want or give him a few bucks at a time. Not to many places let you do that. Harry was the same way but i got everything from him for cost. Im sure going to miss that!
I wish there were more shops like Wilderness/Ishpeming around (used guns, priced to sell, high turnover rate). On the flip side he isn't offering any deals on reloading components.

Larry Pifke/Iron River was also excellent but retired recently.

Tony's/Kinchloe is still around but that guy has to be in his 90's and every time you go in there you wonder if he will still be open the next time you are in town.

My all time favorite is currently Shultz/Argonne, WI. Lower turnover of used guns than Wilderness and can't buy handguns out of state, but but better deals on reloading components.

-ktw

[Heavy lead]

Maybe it's the same .257 I had, long enough throat for a 87 grain varmint bullet, magazine long enough for a 30-06, idiots, I ran some 2k through it with every possible bullet weight, style, powder, primer, bedding combination, float, pressure, full glass bed, 3 scopes, you name it. I was so pissed I didn't even want to rebarrel it.
Oddly my best shooter I have is a newer laminated 22-250, couldn't ask for more after it settled in after 200 rounds, I did lap it, it has too long of a throat but it still shoots 55 grain bt's better than it should. The .416 77 big gun is a fine rifle and can shoot better than me and sure can outlast my shoulder, I've got a Number One stainless 25-06 that thinks it's Remington 700 based on it's groups. But I probably won't buy another 77 regular rifle, I've had the same experience. Or a Model 70 built between 1990 and the closing of the plant in CN.

[Lloyd Smale]

i too have a #1 2506 that is one of the most accurate rifles ive ever owned. Ive got to say that ive actually had much better luck with #1s then i had with 77s

[Multigunner]

Ain't it funny? I have my best luck with Savages and Winchesters, my worst luck with Ruger bolts. In shotguns, Mossberg and Remington reign supreme for me with Brownings being nothing but an exercise in absolute frustration.

I think it's something in our genetic soup. . .

:coffee:

I've never run across a Savage that wasn't capable of being a tack driver. Though my Savage .22 with synthetic stock threw bullets to one side till I looked closely at the fore end and found an indented area causing side pressure on the barrel. I loosened the king screw and ran a piece of fine sandpaper around the barrel moving the paper back and forth in the barrel channel till it sanded away the bump. Then tightened it back up and she shoots oneholers all day long.
Bedding issues can affect any rifle.

My 25-20 23B is in practically the same condition as when it left the factory and is as accurate as any rifle in its class could be. They knew how to make them back then.

Ruger seems to manufacture its parts very well on the average, but quality control often went south when it came to assembly. I doubt they even testfired most of their products.
I've run across some truly unforgivable incidents of lack of inspection. A 357 with concentric cuts in the bore deeper than the grooves from a chip caught in the boring operation, and a Bearcat with no forcing cone that spit lead worse than a saturday night special.
Some of the best and most of the worst guns I've owned have been Rugers.

[kingstrider]

I have a couple of 77 Mk IIs in .223 and .270 and a No. 1 in .308, all of which are stainless. All are great shooters, though I haven't had the .223 long enough to dial in working load yet. I also have a 77/22 and it is a good shooter too, guess I must be lucky.

[stephen perry]

OK the good and the bad has been thrown on the sidewalk. First like I said earlier I worked 25 yrs part time in my Bud's gun shop, H&S in Pomona. We were a complete gunshop we did it all including smithing and sold it all. Ruger was our numero uno selling gun rifle or handgun. We sold everything else Browning, Winchester, Remington, S&W, Colt, Taurus and the best in shotguns.

For all the Ruger 77's I sold I don't remember anybody coming back selling the Ruger and buying something else. If there were problems it was generally in how they mounted their scope which I could straigthen out in short order.

I would say for Varmint barrel bolts we sold Ruger 10 to 1 over Remington. Remington would be my choice mainly because a 700 trigger was the best in the industry, probably still is.That being said I am getting a Ruger V in .308 next Tuesday. The gun hasn't been shot since 1975 as my smith started to shoot BR and put his Rugers away. The .308 has a trigger swap out now is wearing a Canjar set, that's a big plus as I have 2 Canjar sets and am familiar in maintaining them. My smith bedded both his Ruger V's.

My time in the shop was 1975-2000. Savage didn't have much to sell that could compete with our other product lines thus the rare Savage we got used had to compete with a new Ruger, couldn't beat the price of a new Ruger 77. I like what Savage is doing now with bolts, just don't like cockey Savage shooters. I bury them everytime with my BR rifles, even my Remiinton BR rifles 40x and 600.

If you have a good Ruger you are happy. If you have one that is a pain find a smith. Folks we are dealing with Factory rifles that cost 1/2 or less than what a Custom would cost. Search out your problem if it's the trigger change it out. I put a Timney trigger in my Ruger .257. If it's bedding have a smith do it for you. In the end you will have a nice rifle with a great stock. Read Carmichael on Rugers he endorses them. Most every factory bolt I have run accross can use some help. Last let's get down to it maybe just maybe you need some help on your shooting technique, truth hurts.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[runfiverun]

stephen if you can tell one rifle isn't performing up to the standards of the other 45.
i doubt it's shooting skill.

[Heavy lead]

stephen if you can tell one rifle isn't performing up to the standards of the other 45.
i doubt it's shooting skill.

There you go again RFR using common sense aka deductive reasoning. Couldn't have said it better. :roll:

[stephen perry]

Five and Heavy I could even make the two you better shooters if you would leave your attitudes at home, most can't do that.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Heavy lead]

Five and Heavy I could even make the two you better shooters if you would leave your attitudes at home, most can't do that.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Not saying you couldn't, and I don't pretence to be as good a shooter as you are either, but I sure as hell know when a rifle won't shoot, and know how to accurize pretty damned well and have been doing it for quite sometime. That .257 never would nor never will shoot that I had, oddly I did put a new trigger on it before I ever fired it. I'm not saying all Ruger's are bad, in fact I've got a few great shooters.
As far as attitude take a look at your own, you doubt everything everyone says about anything, citing your superiority you state in almost every post.
Essentially one has to assume in reading your post that a bad barrel is just not possible, now that is just not even logical. The majority of factory rifles I've purchased over the last 20 years have shot good to great with none (very few) or very little (most) work, including trigger adjustments, bedding (pressure, float, or full bed jobs, depending on the situation), fire lapping, hand lapping, recrowning, or whatever else I'm forgetting right now. Also I know how to mount a scope correctly and have the correct tools to ream rings, lap rings and such to ensure a torque free mount. Actually I have quite a few people around (friends and always for no charge) bring me plenty of problem rifles to help on as well and can usually get one to shoot well before I'm done.
Maybe you should start assuming people may know what they are talking about maybe just a little before you insult them next time.

[stephen perry]

My experience with guns is similar to yours but it's your attitude and computer handle that gives you away. I was Shoot Director at San Gabriel Valley Benchrest for 11 years will be same at Angeles BR next year when the Range is done. Whatever you percieve of me is what you see in yourself. I share shooting info Cast and whatever that's why I'm here and do allot of learning myself. I'm not hard to find in So Cal. Besides 45Nut advised me to stay away from people like you on Cast Boolits, that's what I'll do.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess i think a bit diffent then some when it comes to an accurate rifle. Im not beyond accurarizing a good gun. If a gun shoots well out of the box. Lets say a good bolt gun that shoots inch to inch and a quarter I will bed it and do a few more things to try to really get it to shoot. I will spend days of happy load development trying to get that gun to shoot say a 3/4 inch group. But a bolt gun that shoots over 2 inch at a 100? Sorry but that guns a dud and it just doesnt interest me to spend my time and my expensive reloading components or pay a gunsmith to get it to shoot 1 1/2 groups. Ive got open sighted lever actions that will shoot 2 inch 100 yard groups. Why would i want to fool with a scoped bolt gun that does that. Steven, Rugers are probalby the biggest sellers up here too. That been said id have to say that 3/4s of the guys that buy a rifle never shoot more then a couple boxes of ammo out of it in there lifetime. they sight it in and if it hits the 6 inch target at a 100 yards they think they have something. Most of them couldnt shoot a one inch group anymore then they could drive a nascar race at 200mph. Personaly i think ruger and probably the rest of the gun industry preys on guys like that. They let quality control slip and allow **** guns out in the market knowing that most guys dont have a clue and will be happy with it forever. Out of the knowegable ones that will buy a dud. Half will just trade it in and chances are another guy will buy it that doesnt have a clue and the other half will send them back to ruger and they will fix maybe half of them and the other half they will claim are within there very loose standards. It makes more economic sense to them then to hire enough people to take the time and do it right the first time. Ruger isnt the only company guilty of this. Ive noticed marlins and even remingtons quality control really slipping lately. Personaly i like the way weatherby does it. You can either pay for an out of the box gun or pay a bit more for a select accuracy guaranteed gun. Id gladly pay a 100 bucks more for a new rifle that was guaranteed to shoot under an inch. By the time a guy even has one glass bedded or pays to ship it back to the factory you darned near have that into it anyway and those arent guarantees of fixing the problem. Im sorry to see this post getting personal. I kind of knew when i posted it that someone would get there nose out of joint. Theres guys that think the sun raises and sets on ruger. I posted this same topic on the ruger forum and had some of them attack. I figured here and for the most part got just an open discussion. I get a charge out of people that get personaly insulted when you bash there gun or there car or there motorcyle like they built the darned thing themselves. Some people think that if they buy a certain product it has to be good because there just to dammed smart to buy something inferior or it has to be the best because some yeyho on tv or a magazine or on line told them it was. Me ill call a turkey a turkey.

[softpoint]

i too have a #1 2506 that is one of the most accurate rifles ive ever owned. Ive got to say that ive actually had much better luck with #1s then i had with 77s

You aren't alone. I gave up on M77's about 30 years ago. I've seen a few that would really shoot,but a lot more that wouldn't. I'm kind of a Rem.700 fan, myself. Most of the time, a 700 will either shoot right out of the box, or a simple bedding job will fix them. I've only owned a couple of Model70 winnies, but they did pretty well. My 2 Browning A Bolts needed nothing to make them shoot, one a 7mag, the other a .260. I did trigger jobs on them, and they were good to go. Recently I've been playing with 2 UGLY Stevens 200 rifles, Academy sports has them on sale for less than 200 bucks. One is a 270, the other a 7/08. I've put a Rifle Basics trigger in the 270, and both shoot under an inch!
It seems like over the years, the M77 Rugers that tended to shoot pretty well were the heavy barrel .220 Swifts. At least I have knowledge of three of them, and they all shot well??? Doesn't make sense.:coffee:

[Jack Stanley]

Lloyd , you have a way with words , that sir , was beautiful . A turkey is a turkey no matter who made it , some companies flocks just tend to be larger than others is all .

I'm sure many of us can sort out the very good from the very bad rifles . Some of the more talented ones here can even fix or at least help the very bad rifles . But you really nailed it , why invest the time and money into any rifle that won't shoot when you have one that shoots quite well from the start . And I would imagine there are some here that can even rebuild those turkey rifles and make them do well ........... ain't this just the best bunch o' guys ?!

Jack

[fishnbob]

Like I said before. I could fix the trigger, bed it, scope it with a leupold, take it to the range and I had shrunk the groups from 2 1/2" all the way down to 1 1/2". I just figured it was a crappy barrel and if the buyer wanted to hit a deer at 100 to 200 yards, he was good to go. However, if he wanted to cut the same hole, he needed to buy another rifle. There just seems to be way more cons than pros!

[Heavy lead]

My experience with guns is similar to yours but it's your attitude and computer handle that gives you away. I was Shoot Director at San Gabriel Valley Benchrest for 11 years will be same at Angeles BR next year when the Range is done. Whatever you percieve of me is what you see in yourself. I share shooting info Cast and whatever that's why I'm here and do allot of learning myself. I'm not hard to find in So Cal. Besides 45Nut advised me to stay away from people like you on Cast Boolits, that's what I'll do.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Yes you can, and you did the best possible "favor" you could do me above.
You know the funny thing? I put you on ignore a few weeks ago when you decided on another thread you were to tough to carry concealed. I changed my mind later as I've never ignored anyone, not Junior, not Frank nobody. I'm sure you've "ignored" me by now, if so that is your right and I applaud it. As far as the rest of your post, just keep pointing fingers at everyone else, it's all our fault. If that's what it takes to pacify you I applaud that as well.
As far as my handle, dude, you think waaaaaaaaaaay toooooooooooooo much, it's just a darn handle nothing else, I just happen to like heavy for caliber bullets and boolits, always have.
Good luck with the shooting and the new range, like 45nut I agree you should stay away from people like me.
Thanks Stephen,

Stephen aka Heavy lead

[johnly]

I can get my Ruger 77/22 Magnums and Hornets to shoot, as well as my old tang safety 77s except for the 257 Roberts I had. Did everything to it except for replacing the barrel trying to get it to shoot. 3 shots into 3" at 100 was about all I could expect from it. All is not bad, as when the M70 257 Featherweight showed up at the pawns shop I grabbed it as I had so many 25 caliber bullet collected from the Ruger experiment. The M70 is a spectacular shooter with H4350 and Hornady 100 gr. SP.

John

[stephen perry]

Glad to hear you found a Win .257. Sounds like the nice featherweights that we sold at the shop I worked at in the 1980's. Do yourself a favor find the OAL of seated bullets in your Ruger .257 and your Winchester .257. Seat a bullet in an un-primed case. Measure OAL before chambering both, use seperate cases and same bullets in both. Measure push back on each. What you will probably find is that the Ruger chamber is longer meaning the reamer cuts the leade deeper.

Ideally when loading for a hunting rifle you would like to seat bullets as close to the rifling but still keep the bullets inside the case neck enough to avoid tipping when everday contact is made. In different words for hunting loads I will not seat a bullet so far into the lands that only .125 inch of the bullet is inside the case neck. For target work you can get by with minimal case neck contact mainly because the ammo will be shot same day. For hunting cartridges that will likely be banged around some seating deeper in the case neck is desireable.

So find bullets with ogives not so slim as you might want to push farther into the leade and end up sacrificing case neck contact. For .257 bullets in the 100 grn range should be long enough to seat close to the lands and keep them in the case neck. Your Winchester probably has that advanatge as your Ruger was cut with more free bore. Both with the right bullets should shoot well, my Ruger .257 shoots 1-2" 100 yd groups with a variety of bullets, some groups 3/4". I swapped out the Ruger trigger for a Timney.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Lloyd Smale]

Not nessarily Steve. I had one of the featherweight 257s when the first came out and I wish John all the luck in the world with it but if it was like mine it will be a headache too. The old 257 and 757 featherweights from tha era were notoriously poor shooters. Winchester had there head up there but when the built them. they took a long action, blocked the mag well to short action lenght and then throated the barrels real deep. there was no way as is to seat a bullet out far enough to get accuracy and in the case of mine even with the mag block taken out the throat was still to long. I managed to find a couple loads that shot 1.5 inch or so at a 100 but it took alot of load developement to get it there. It went down the line when i got divorced. As to ruger heavy barrels selling the best in your area im sure thats a local thing as just about everyone i know that is a serious varmit hunter uses remingtons with a few savages thrown in. Ive yet to see a custom varmit rig built on a ruger or for that matter any kind of a competion bench gun. Remington dominates that field. I dont know what it is about 257 roberts guns but ive had a few and have yet to find an accurate one. Id love to find one of the limited run rem classics but not to many who own them will part with them. They made some mountain rilfes but they were short actions and i dont want that. Maybe a cdl and cut the 24 inch barrel to 22 would make me happy.

[stephen perry]

For all the time , energy, and money you have spent on Rugers you deserve a good one. I didn't just get lucky in buying my Rugers both were worked on by my smiths. I have handled more guns than most of you guys have looked at in a lifetime. I have many Remingtons, several Winchesters , and a couple Rugers. Each and every one of my rifles are good shooters they didn't start out that way but I am keen enough to know when a new trigger is necessary. I also tailor my scopes and my loading to get what I want. For hunting guns 1 1/2 and less usually settle on a good load that gives me 3/4" jacketed 1 1/2" Cast. Cast will get better as I spend more time learning how to fit the buulet to barrel.

Blanket statements about Rugers or any Factory brand by one shooter are seen by most as need a smith. As long as we are dealing with wood stocks that should be pillar bedded and triggers that are not consumer friendly gunsmiths will keep their positions as Doctors of Accuracy. Lloyd for my Rugers my smith devcon bedded the recievers and the front stock screws and changed out triggers Timney on the .257 and Canjar on the .308.

PHD in Gunsmithing is what I have awarded a few of my smiths, they earned it. It's our job as shooters to know how to load for and maintain our guns.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Lloyd Smale]

Steve i know your knowlegable when it comes to guns. I also know if you throw enough money at a turkey it will morf into a swan but thats not what im looking for in a gun. I to have a pile of bolt guns in most calibers and makes. 20 years ago i would have settled for a gun that did an inch and a half at a 100 yards but most makers including rem, sav, browning and winchester out of the box guns will routinely do that and better. A 2 inch bolt gun is nothing but a boat anchor in my opinion. Like I said i didnt give up easy. About every gun in my safe has been bedded by a gunsmith, all of them have had trigger work. Now im not talking pillar bedding or replacement triggers but they are all bedded and have triggers between 1.5lbs and 2.5 lbs. I just dont feel that after paying 600 plus bucks for a gun i should have to go any farther then that and certainly not to the point of buying a 400 dollar barrel. Its easier just to sell them. If I have to be honest ive had a few winchesters that werent up to snuff and at least one remington that just wouldnt shoot. But it seems like at least 75 percent of the 77s ive owned have been duds. Ive shot some of the newer ones like the hawkeyes and they seem to do better and the stainless rugers have never given me troubles but i just so tired of wasting expensive reloading components on guns that just wont shoot. Heck i know ive shot enough bullets through some of those rugers trying to find a load that i spent more on bullets and powder then i did the gun. Remingtons are just easier, at least to me to get working. I just finished load work on a new stainless model 7 in 308 that shot many loads into just over a half inch at a 100. Ive yet to have any ruger even a heavy barreled one shoot like that little lightweight gun does. Nope i just cant see buying another one. Its about like buying another lee progressive press hoping that the first one was just a lemon.

[stephen perry]

I too am a Remington shooter. I have the XP's, 40x, 600's, 700's, 722, and 788's. The 600's and the 40x are BR rifles. Except for the 788 Remington made the best adjustable triggers in the Factory rifles. Not Jewells but I have five 2 oz triggers that started out as Remington's.

Ruger, I only have 2 rifles a couple pistols. I said earlier that Ruger rifles were our best sellers for the 25 years I worked in the shop. I don't remember any coming back. Since I was an RSO at the local Range I saw allot of customers before and during hunting season sighting in. Benches are at a premium during hunting season so it was the job of the RSO to help em get sighted in and get them off the Range so the next in line could shoot. Nine times out of ten scopes were mounted poorly. I always had my gunsmith screwdrivers and allen wrenches to help the dudes out. If they were a poor shot I asked them if I could shoot the gun. Most knew me so when I sat down the sighting in was usual 2 maybe 3 shots. I would have them shoot a 3 shot group after I gave them a few pointers at being at the bench. Almost always they could shoot a 3 shot 1" group. I told them as long as they weren't hunting pack rats their grouping would get the job done.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess i have to admit ive allways been partial to remingtons anyway. Im sure some of my posts reflect that. I wish the rugers did better as i do like the look and feel of them. Since my frustrations boiled over with them last month ive bought 3 rifles. A stainless700 300 win mag a model 7 308 and just yesterday another 700 in 300 weatherby. Cool thing with them is when im taking them home i dont have that bad feeling in my gut that i bought another lemon. I know when i start buying boxes of bullets to try i can buy one box of each instead of 3 because i can get about any bullet to shoot in one with a few proven loads. Now if the crop damage shooting would just pick up! Im getting guns backed up that need to be blooded! Last two times weve been out all weve seen is bucks and cant shoot them. Need to shoot something with these three so i can put them back away and use my favorites. My #1 2506 and my 257 weatherby.

[stephen perry]

This is a gun I would like to have. The 7x57 caliber would be great for Cast and jacketed. Kinda fits in the middle between a .243 and a 30-06. Used to swear by the .280 Rem still do for jacketed hunting loads. To me the 7x57 is an efficient powder burner which to me is important as generally I am going to load Unique for Cast loads.
The case fits better in Mauser actions and the Ruger 77. In days past the 7x57 had as much loading data even for Cast as any rifle cartridge. Most every past generation hunter had a few 7x57's in their stable. The 7x57 will be my next bolt hopefully in a Ruger.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Lloyd Smale]

We sure agree on one thing. the 280 is also one of my favorites. As a matter of fact my featherweight took two deer last night.

[jh45gun]

point is I guess a 600 dollar rifle shouldnt need inner tubes put in it to make it shoot. Remingtons, savages and even winchesters shoot right out of the box


AH HA I say the same thing about their pistols here and I get all sorts of dodo because of them comments. For what they cost you should not have to gunsmith them unless something is broken. Too many here figure they will just repair what Ruger has neglected to do. If every one sent every Ruger back to the company that I have heard complaints on they would be out of business or repairing guns for the next several years instead of making new ones.

Yes I have had good Rugers but enough bad ones that I gave up on them. I did have ONE model 77 only one I owned in 243 that was a tack driver. I have a friend that has one also in 243 one of the full length Manlicher stocked ones and that too is a tack driver. Others I have seen were not as good.

[GabbyM]

If you go to college to study manufacturing they'll teach you of a quality control method which judges quality by how much product is returned by the customer as opposed to rejected by inspectors. This method sets a percentage of parts to be inspected on the line while the rest just go out the door with an assumption of quality. All the operator has to do is pull out a good part to send to inspection then run junk. I've had guys running the same machine on opposing shifts send my parts to inspection since all they knew how to or cared to run was junk. After all that silliness if everything falls apart the geniuses in mid management positions just blame it all on the unions. Fingers point in all directions. So basically six years of engineering college teaches you to point fingers. This is foreign ideology which has entrenched itself into American manufacturing just in time to help push us all out of business.

Every since I can recall and probably ever since my father can remember there's been a term on shop floors to describe these fellows who come up with manufacturing methods of this sort. “educated idiots”.

I've never read through any firearm warranty. Perhaps you could hold them to SAMI spec on chambers?

Ruger rifles feed good but for a twenty dollar bill or two extra you can buy an FN Winchester model 70.

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess i look at there handguns a bit differently. Ive bought a pile of them through the years and about knew each and every one of them would need work. the thing about the revolvers is theres nothing in there price range thats even as good and they make many designs and calibers that nobody else offers so theres really no other show in town. There rifles on the other hand are no cheaper then a remington or winchester and more expensive then the rest. So with rifles i have options to get a better gun for the same money.
AH HA I say the same thing about their pistols here and I get all sorts of dodo because of them comments. For what they cost you should not have to gunsmith them unless something is broken. Too many here figure they will just repair what Ruger has neglected to do. If every one sent every Ruger back to the company that I have heard complaints on they would be out of business or repairing guns for the next several years instead of making new ones.

Yes I have had good Rugers but enough bad ones that I gave up on them. I did have ONE model 77 only one I owned in 243 that was a tack driver. I have a friend that has one also in 243 one of the full length Manlicher stocked ones and that too is a tack driver. Others I have seen were not as good.

[jh45gun]

Well Lloyd every one has an opinion but there is no excuse for this comment I feel:


Ive bought a pile of them through the years and about knew each and every one of them would need work.

No reason for that Ruger should make them right from the factory. Only thing Ruger handguns got going for them is you can shoot hot loads in them if they are Blackhawks and the older style Vaquero and not the newer ones. Yes they are a nice made gun but I have no use for a gun or the company that makes them if you have to fix their mistakes. As you said with the rifles other guns are better right out of the box. If a person I suppose can work on them themselves great but not all of us can do that. Waiting for a long period of time for Ruger to fix their mistakes which they may or may not do is a sucky option too as is paying a gunsmith good money to fix Rugers mistakes.

[9.3X62AL]

Sometimes we gotta hold our nose when we buy a firearm, and be prepared to finish building it. I detest that, but since it is the reality of the situation--I accept it grudgingly and do what is needed to refine the rough spots. Concerning the Ruger bolt rifle subject posed by the original poster, my experience is little more than luck of the draw. One of the best days of my hobby experience was to get back the Ruger 77R in 6.5 x 55 I had traded to a friend.

Will I buy another Ruger bolt rifle? Not real likely--I have examples of their make and others in the calibers I want for various applications, and the more likely scenario when those examples wear out is a re-barrel in the same caliber.

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess i would agree. Thing is though with there handguns the fixes are usually cheap or even things you can do yourself and like i said they have no real competition in that price range anyway. For the most part the ruger handgun ive owned were probably good enough for the average shooter who doesnt know any better. But to someone that knows quality they do come up lacking. One thing though is that most of them shoot well out of the box and thats the major thing a guy looks for in a gun. I sure cant say that about there 77s . I continue to buy there sixguns because theres just no other show in town.
Well Lloyd every one has an opinion but there is no excuse for this comment I feel:



No reason for that Ruger should make them right from the factory. Only thing Ruger handguns got going for them is you can shoot hot loads in them if they are Blackhawks and the older style Vaquero and not the newer ones. Yes they are a nice made gun but I have no use for a gun or the company that makes them if you have to fix their mistakes. As you said with the rifles other guns are better right out of the box. If a person I suppose can work on them themselves great but not all of us can do that. Waiting for a long period of time for Ruger to fix their mistakes which they may or may not do is a sucky option too as is paying a gunsmith good money to fix Rugers mistakes.

[Just Duke]

point is I guess a 600 dollar rifle shouldnt need inner tubes put in it to make it shoot. Remingtons, savages and even winchesters shoot right out of the box

I had the same problem in the "70's" Sold them all and bought Sako's. No problems after that.