new to reloading

[afweinie]

I bought a Lee Classic handloader in .357 to reload my wife's Model 66. I read that it was not a problem reloading .38s with the same kit. My search here came up dry so I figured I'd stop reading and start posting.

Will the neck sizing die work for the .38s too?

Eventually I want to get a progerssive press so I can reload .223 and 9mm for my semi-autos... but that is a whole other Q&A session for a later date.

Thank you!

[swamp]

Sizing will be no problem. You will have to adjust the flaring die and boolit seating/crimping dies when you switch between calibers.

[afweinie]

The only thing that I can tell is adjustable is the depth the bullet is seated to. There is no adjustment to the sizing die.

This is the Lee Classic Loader. All you need are a non-marring hammer and the desired powder, primers, and bullets.

Thanks swamp, but I don't think we are on the same kit.

[RobS]

The sizing die if it is touching the shell plate with the ram fully up then it is good to go with either 357 mag cases or 38 special cases this die will remain the same for both. The seating/crimping die will need to be adjusted as the directions indicated to accommodate for the difference in brass lengths between the 38 special and 357 mag brass. It's fairly straight forward and your dies will definitely work for both cartridges............no worries.

[afweinie]

I think I need to go to remedial reloading.

This is he kit I bought to start out: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=702138

I wish I knew how to put up a picture

[BCB]

I printed out the instructions just out of curiosity…

The clue that it might not reload 38 Special ammo is that there is only one powder measure…

The charge of powder for the 357 Magnum could not be the same as for the 38 Special, but maybe there is a separate powder measure of the 38 Special, but I doubt that…

The reloading data included should verify my thoughts…

Post some of the powders that are recommended and possibly the size, in cc’s, of the powder measure if it is on the side or available…

Looks like a 357 Magnum reloader to me…

I am still baffled at how you bell the sized case…

Maybe the instructions on the Web are generic and not specific for a cartridge…

Good-luck…BCB

[noylj]

That type of reloader goes back to the early days and not precision reloading.
It can do a damn fine job and many people have made their own "dies" for it.
Be sure to chamfer you cases inside and out.
I wish that Lee had a video for using it. You can probably find something on YouTube as those that use them will enjoy showing us lazy bums how a real reloader works.

[BCB]

afweinie,

I went to the website you posted and I printed the instructions of the 357 Magnum die they show on that page...

Closer look at the instructions indicates it is for a rifle...

So, maybe the straight-wall case reloader might have something to bell the case mouth. I don't know...

Lee instructions are not overly great from what limited products I have from that company. BUT, if you follow them VERY closely, you will get the job done...

From the instruction I printed for the rifle cartridge, the concept is very understandable--but that is possibly because I have reloaded for nearly 40 years and the reloading process is the same no matter what equipment is used--basically...

Stay with it--you will get it figured out...

Good-luck...BCB

[Throckmorton]

where did u read that it could be used for .38's? on the box or instructions,or??
the Lee site lists 2 different sets for the 2 calibers.I suspect yours will not do 2 calibers unless ,as pointed out,you have 2 load charts and at least 2 dippers.
the parts list does show an expander tool,so neck chamfering might not be necessary,but still a good idea.

I have read many accounts of primers detonating using this tool,so wear safety glasses,and hearing protection would be a good idea too.

[Wayne Smith]

The case diameters are the same, and they are straight cases - ergo, the size die will work. You can prime any length case with it. The powder measure will only throw one volumn of powder, but there are a variety of powders from slow to fast that can be used. I'd still recommend a powder scale at least and probably a measure. Boolit seating is, as you mentioned, adjustable. Is crimping? I doubt it. This is where you are likely to run into problems.

[BCB]

The case diameters are the same, and they are straight cases - ergo, the size die will work. You can prime any length case with it. The powder measure will only throw one volumn of powder, but there are a variety of powders from slow to fast that can be used. I'd still recommend a powder scale at least and probably a measure. Boolit seating is, as you mentioned, adjustable. Is crimping? I doubt it. This is where you are likely to run into problems.


I suspect it will size both 38 Special and 357 Magnum...

I might be surprised if the seating stem will screw down (adjust) deep enough to seat a bullet in a 38 Special. It might be designed that way...

And I am a bit curious as to what volume of powder for the 38 Special would be the same as a given volume for the 357 Magnum. Sure, you could probably get some super slow burner for the 38 Special that would equal a given volume of, say H-110, for the 357 Magnum. But, I doubt it would be in any reloading books as it just would be a waste of time shooting it in the 38 Special...

The only way it might work is say a small volume of Bullseye for the 38 Special and the same volume for the 357 Magnum--that would be O.K. if the volume was safe in the 38 Special. But, you could never get full efficiency from the 357 Magnum as the volume dipper would have to be safe only for the 38 Special and not designed for full potential of the 357 Magnum...

May be wrong on this. But one dippers sounds like an accident waiting to happen if used for 2 different cartridges...

Good-luck...BCB

[David2011]

A full set of powder dippers is a little over $12 at Cheaper than Dirt. That cures the guesswork and lets you use any viable powder.

Edited: $8.29 for the set at Midway.

When using standard .357 dies in a press they usually come with a spacing ring for the seating die. Without it, you adjust for .38 Special. Remove the die and re-install it with the spacer and you're set for the same bullet in .357.

David

[BCB]

A full set of powder dippers is a little over $12 at Cheaper than Dirt. That cures the guesswork and lets you use any viable powder.

Edited: $8.29 for the set at Midway.

When using standard .357 dies in a press they usually come with a spacing ring for the seating die. Without it, you adjust for .38 Special. Remove the die and re-install it with the spacer and you're set for the same bullet in .357.

David

You're correct about the Lee Dippers, but the type of reloading outfit that afweinie has is ment to "stand on its own". That is, nothing else is needed except case, powder, primer and a bullet.
The dipper with the kit is to be used with several different powders, all for the 357 Magnum when volume charges are acceptable.

The Lee kit that is being discussed is a completely different animal than the 3-die standard sets--i.e. RCBS, Lyman, etc. Yep, the RCBS dies have the 0.125" spacer, but the Lee loader is a different concept and that spacer is not used or probably can't be used...

BCB

[afweinie]

I know the dipper for the .357 will not work for the .38s more than likely, I was mostly interested in if the sizing die would be sufficient for the .38 cases. I ran about a hundred through the die and they seem to drop nicely into the cylinder of the M66. I bought a pound of Bullseye to get me started. It seemed to be pretty fast burning and there was load data for it in all of the calibers I have. I do plan on picking up 2 of the dipper sets so I have an extra to make custom volumes. Seemed like a pretty cool idea, and by all accounts works very well.

noylj,
You are right, Youtube has some great videos on the net showing how to use the kit. I need to get a chamfering tool yet. I'll put one on my next Midway order.

BCB,
the instructions are very generic and indicate a rifle, but there are kits for all kinds of rifle and pistol calibers. Hmmmm, It does say right there "38SPC 357M BODY "... I think that may just answer my question as far as sizing goes. For those not familliar with these kits, the dippers are very powder specific. Can be a pain to find what you need locally. FYI the bullet seating die seems to have about 5/8" adjustability in it. It sounds reasonable that since there is one die for both, there is probably only one seating die too???

Throckmorton,
I read in a couple places where the set would work for both... with the stipulation that powder measurement would be different for the .38. I also would like to have the chart that comes with the .38 kit, but it can be ordered for $1 from Lee as areplacement part. The .5cc dipper is also a a buck... seems a lot better than buying a whole new kit where the majority of the parts are identical.

Wayne,
I'm just getting into reloading so I'm trying to stick with the very basics for now, but a scale and a powder measure are very high on my list (which will not stop growing;))
. Crimping is controled basicly by how hard you whack it with the hammer. I guess there is a "feel" associated with the primimg and crimping steps. I'm thinking this probably goes for presses too though.

David2011,
There is not a spacer on the seating die, but there is a lock nut on it to give it adjustability for both calibers and different bullet types. I suppose if you were using the same bullet with both you could pretty easily whip up a spacer to use.

Thanks guys,
You all helped me wrap my brain around this kit better. I have a friend that has a .357 too. I giving thought to building him a ready-to-go kit to reload his gun based on this Lee kit.

[David2011]

BCB,

I understand that afweinie is using the Lee Classic Handloader but I don't understand why he can't put a different powder charge in the case, hence the suggestion of the dipper kit. So, it was intended to be standalone. Isn't embellish what we do here? Seems like a set of dippers would allow him much greater utility out of some basic but functional tools.

You are correct about the spacer not working with the Lee Classic. I was trying to elaborate on what seemed to be a secondary subject in the above comments which related to press mounted dies. Sorry if I confused anyone.

Afweinie, the answer to your last comment is easy for me. A Dillon 550B will load everything you want to shoot that uses standard 7/8x14 dies. I bought mine in 1991 and have never regretted it.

David

[David2011]

The Lee dipper chart is available as a free download: http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/Dippers.pdf.

The only differences in the replacement parts list between the .38 Special and .357 Magnum Classic Handloaders on Lee's website are the powder measure and powder charge chart so Afweinie should be able to load .38 and .357 with his kit after downloading the charge chart and getting another dipper or the dipper kit.

By making an index mark on the seater it should be pretty easy to count the revolutions required to adjust between the Special and Magnum.

David

[BCB]

David2011,

Well, if I was going to all the trouble to use dippers, and I have that set that has been mentioned, I would just get an inexpensive set of scales and get data from the various powder pages on the Net...

Then you could reload any load for the 38 Special or the 357 Magnum that is published and know...

1000's and 1000's of them available...

I have made a spreadsheet of all the powders that I have (60+ last count) and I know what each dipper will throw with each powder...

I use them for developing loads--that is, if I want to try say 10 grains of H-110, I can pick that dipper and I don't have to try to set up a powder thrower. I then use scales to fine tune what the dipper throws with a powder trickler. If I get a load that seems to work, I then go to the powder thrower and load some ammo...

Dippers are O.K., but they are limiting unless you have a very good chart that shows what they throw in charges of various powders...

Lee does include a slide rule type set up that gives this data...

Still, they are slow and iffy if exact charges are wanted. That can only be gotten by scales...

I would invest in scales before powder dippers...

But that is just me...

And so it goes...BCB

[emorris]

I wouldn't worry too much over the kit because you will soon buy more equipment because saving money is addictive as well as reloading:smile:. I started with the same kit for 9mm and although slow it was very effective and gave a learing curve. My lee dies (press type) will reload 38 special and 357 mag. The only sure way to find out is to load a uncharged round and see what happens. Check the round for obivious defects and mishaps. As others said that you may run into a problem seating the bullet if the seater is not long enough. You will have to adjust powder since you cant use the data supplied. If you dont have some type of scale yet you my look into grtting one .I still use my leesafety scale that I paid around 17.00 for years ago.The powder scoops work good but you will be limited in customizing a load due to the different size measures and for what the scoop kit costs and a little more you could buy a scale.
Just for fun type in How to Reload a 38 spl. and kill a beer on youtube

[afweinie]

I do plan on getting the dipper kit, a scale, and eventually a powder dispenser too. Right now I would like to keep my reloading simple and safe. The M66 is an original non-dash model with cylinder recessed for the cartridge rims. I don't really expect it to be up for the same loads a GP100 or a Blackhawk could eat all day long... nor, do I want to tear it up.

Emorris,
Did you use the 9mm kit in autos? Saw the "kill a beer" skit the other day... funny stuff

High on my list right now is another manual to cross-reference with the Lee one I already have.

David,
I'm with you on the scale . I know the powder dippers are pretty limiting as they come (already saved the dipper chart). I can see a that I will want more versatility before long, but for whipping up some .38s for plinking purposes, I think they will do what I need for now. BTW, the 550B is exactly the direction I was leaning in for my upgrade.

My original question was answered, but I'm always open to suggestions.

[Cowboy T]

Since your original question was answered, and you're open to suggestions....

Another good choice for a progressive press is the Lee Pro 1000, for the two cartridges you've indicated you want to load. I have one for .38/357, and another for .44Spl/44Mag/45Colt. With a change of shell plate and dies (just swap the turret), the .38/357 one will also do .223 or 7.62x39.

[noylj]

Every one should have a set of Lee dippers. With it comes Lee's chart showing almost all powders and their Volume/Mass Density. You can also get an even better number by contacting the powder manufacturer. The Lee sets tend to state the volume (in cubic centimeters) slightly on the high side and the VMD slightly off also so that the loads they show are safe for all.
If one has a balance, then one can calibrate the Lee dippers and various powders with the "correct" VMD for the user.
When using a dipper, you want to push the dipper under the surface of the powder and let it fill the dipper. When you remove the dipper, run a business card across the dipper's surface to level the powder. Do not actually swish the dipper through the powder, you will get more powder and you will get much less consistent loads.
For bullet seating, you pound the bullet seating housing (or whatever they call it) down to a firm stop. Not sure if the stop is controlled by the case or is fixed for a given cartridge such that you can't use a .357 kit to load .38.
Hopefully, we will find out.

[1hole]

afweinie, as you can tell, many folks have no idea of what you're using.

Actually, it's virtually impossible to load .38s with the .357 kit but it will work the other way around, sorta. Sorry.

[afweinie]

Now you have me confused. Can you explain why?

[noylj]

IF you want a single-stage press, get the Lee Challenger Kit—the press that uses bushings to hold the dies. If you want an excellent single-stage press, get the Forster Co-Ax.
If you don't want a single-stage press, look at the Lee Turret with auto-indexing (near ideal for loading bottleneck cases).
If you want a progressive, look at the Hornady L-N-L progressive. I've used Dillon 650s and my own Hornady and the Hornady is better for me. You handle the cases and bullets with your left hand while your right stays on the press handle. Much easier and caliber conversions are much cheaper and much quicker. Again, it uses bushings to hold the dies so once the die is set-up, it just stays in the bushing and never needs adjusting again.
Then, someday, you might move up to a Super 1050.
In all cases, read up on the press's features, go to the maufacturer's site and see if there are any videos, and check YouTube.
Buying a press has been a shot-in-the-dark for many years, with only an occasional review in the magazines and very hard to any real information.
Even here, most of what you will hear will be about the press that some one currently owns and that they think it is the best, with out any experience on the others.
If I had the money to waste, I would like to try the Lee LoadMaster just to see what it is like. I really like the idea of a bullet feed (that can use any bullets and doesn't cost an arm and a leg), even if it is hand-fed to start with. Same goes for their case feeder where you put a "bowl" over four case tubes, pour in the cases, do a hula and it fills the four tubes— All for very little money. I have had enough troubles, and am still having troubles, with Dillon case feeders and they also cost an arm and a leg (but with Dillon, you need a case feeder, otherwise the presses are a PITA—at least for me). I do not like feeding cases with my right hand. All that is left hand work.
I do know that if I ever got into reloading bottleneck cartridges in a big way, I would look at Lee's turret before I even considered setting up one of my 1050s.

[BCB]

afweinie,

A bit of a summery on my part with a couple of other opinions added…

Your Classic Lee Loader dies will work for loading 357 Magnum—not 38 Special. Work with it making “dummy” rounds until you get it figured out—you eventually will. You might ruin a few cases in the process, but all of those who reload ammo have in the beginning…

Get the set of powder dippers, scales, reloading manual and possibly an inexpensive powder trickler. That is the minimum stuff to begin with—this will allow versatility and many combinations of powder selections—not just those indicated with the dipper that comes with the Classic Lee Loader…

I absolutely would not purchase any progressive reloading outfit for my 1st press-type reloading system. Unless your intentions are to reload massive amounts of ammo of a few types. Mostly those ammos used in semi-auto shooters where one just burns up ammo for whatever reasons. Yea, some people shoot tremendous quantities of ammo that isn’t used in a semi-auto, but as you will quickly find out, this type of shooting is very expensive with the cost of today’s components—even purchased in bulk…

(And a quick couple of questions for the progressive reloader people: At what stage of the reloading process on a progressive outfit do you, clean the primer pocket…trim the case to the correct length after sizing it…chamfer and bevel the case mouth…check for split or compromised cases—always wonder about those necessary tasks—but I think I know that answer!!!!)

A single stage press will work very well. I have had a Rockchucker for over 40 years and gawd knows how many rounds it has loaded. If one figures 50 rounds per week, and I certainly shot more than that at one time—well, you do the math. And, you won’t need to ask anyone for a review on an RCBS press—period…

The Lee Challenge Breech Lock kit might be a good buy. It has much of the required stuff with the kit. AND, you do not need to use the breech lock system which I think is a pita. I have the RCBS stuff at my home and a Lee Challenge Breech Lock system at my reloading bench—actually in the cabin at my shooting range. (If it is stolen from the cabin, well I ain't out much money) It is O.K. for my field work and messing with different powders/load development. The RCBS is my press for serious reloading at home—I need no other press or system…

Keep trying with your Classic Lee Loader; you will get it to work. Don’t give up…

Those are my opinions…

Good-luck…BCB

[1hole]

"Can you explain why?"

Yeah, I should have done so; it's the length of the cases and dies that are made for them.

You can drive a .357 part way into a .38 die to size and seat so you can make it work. Physically impossible to drive the shorter case far enough into the longer die for it to work.

The Lee hand die kits are very good, just a little slower than a press. And more portable too! Enjoy it, loading can actually be fun and Lee made their fortune off that little device.

BCB is correct, any suggestions you even consider a progressive (fer Pete's sake!) at this point is vastly premature.

Enjoy! :)

[afweinie]

I'm still confused as to why you are saying that I size 38 Sp with my . 357 kit, it is the same die in bothe kits. Much the same as with the 44mag/ 44special is the same piece too. All I can figure, is the there is some miscommunication here somewhere. I looked up all the parts for the two kits on Lee's website, and the list is identical except for the Charge Table and the Powder Measure (dipper).

As far as the press goes I'm a ways from that, so rest assured, I'll try not to get premature on ya:mrgreen:

Besides, I'm still looking for a nice chunk of lumber to serve as my reloading bench with this kit. I have not even begun to seriously think of a full-fledged reloading bench required for a conventional press. My reloading "bench" up to now has been a combination of the floor in my living room and the floor in the garage.

Thanks y'all!

[BCB]

afweinie,

I may have given you some wrong information...

The 38 or 357 may work for each other, but I think the powder dippers are different. As a matter of fact, they would have to be different...

It has been many years since I have been around this type of loading system...

Sorry if I was wrong and gave you the wrong info...

BCB

[afweinie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW82J5NEatU

[1hole]

"I size 38 Sp with my . 357 kit, it is the same die in bothe kits. Much the same as with the 44mag/ 44special is the same piece too."

Then it's been changed from the original and you've answered your own question.

[noylj]

A progressive press really needs to be a 5 station. The Lee Pro 1000 is a 3 station press. Resize then expand and charge with powder and then simultaneously seat the bullet and crimp. I prefer to separate seating and crimping and I like having a fifth station for a powder check die or an expander/bell die.
The positive features for the Lee progressives (having never used on) appear to be an inexpensive case feeder and bullet feeder. I would love to get that bullet feeder on my 1050s. I have so much problem with case feeders that the idea of a simple way to fill four case tubes seems like a great idea.
My concern with the Lee APs in how well the primer feed works and how much tinkering is needed to get it to work?