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View Full Version : What's with all the different .44 mag rifle twists?



Bigscot
05-12-2005, 06:51 PM
In relation to my other post about .44 v .4570, Win v Marlin, what is up with all the different rifle twists? Marlin is a least consistent staying at a slow 1 in 38 but Winchester is all over the place. They however do speed up the twist some.
Why is there so much twist varience in .44 mag. It appears the other pistol chamberings stay within the pistol range. What is the best twist for .44 in a rifle?

Bigscot

felix
05-12-2005, 07:49 PM
Bigscot, how long of a boolit? How far the range for it? Target or hunting shape? ... felix

Bigscot
05-12-2005, 08:03 PM
I would use it for hunting deer, small game, plinking. I currently shoot 200 - 250 cast and 240 and 300 condom in revolvers. This would be my first 44 rifle.

Bigscot

felix
05-12-2005, 08:45 PM
Bigscot, actually the 38 twist would be sufficient, but go for the 26 twist in the Winnie 44 mag so you can shoot the 300 condoms with authority. Good for 300 yard accuracy, but probably not power wise for the bigger critters. You'd need a scope for that range anyway, making a lever gun sorta' out of place these days. ... felix

Bigscot
05-12-2005, 09:48 PM
Thanks for the info Felix. I would probably be shooting alot of the 200-250 grainers in plinking and small game hunting. More so than the heavy weights. What is the application or purpose of the 1 in 38 twist anyway?

Bigscot

felix
05-12-2005, 10:27 PM
Who knows, probably some left over ideas from the black powder era. If you are buying a new gun, though, I'd look at the faster twists, unless you have a ready made cheaper deal or swap for a 38 twister. ... felix

beagle
05-13-2005, 06:33 AM
Bigscot...You were talking about .44 versus .45/70 the other day. Marlin does make a fast twist .444 also which is a shooter with the 1-20 twist ballard rifling. The original barrels had their legendary 1-38 twist like the .44 Magnum and it would send heavy bullet sideways through the target unless they were streakin despite what popular gun writers say./beagle

Bigscot
05-13-2005, 01:48 PM
What bullet weights and styles shoot the best in the 1 in 38 twist?

BS

felix
05-13-2005, 02:31 PM
280 is absolute max, and not recommended. 240-250 is the most practical max for all shootable weather conditions (10 mph cross wind thru 100 yards). ... felix

beagle
05-13-2005, 08:48 PM
I had a Marlin M1894 in .44 Mag, 1-38 twist. It would shoot 1" groups all day long with the 429215 at 50 yards and 1,000 FPS. Go to 100 yards and it wouldn't stay on paper.

Then, I had an old Marlin 336 .44 Magnum with the 1-38 twist and it shot pretty good with the Keith and with the 429667 as long as they were sized big.

Finally, I rebarrelled a M894 with a 1-18 twist. It shot 300s just fine but wouldn't handle the light stuff.

Then, Winchester came out with the 1-26 twist in the Legacy and I got one and that's where I am now and it handles about all weight.

Me and Felix batted the .44 Mag twist rate around all one winter and I ran all kinds of mathmatical models with all of the bullets I had and took into consideration the loads that shot good.

The optimum twist we came up with was 1-26.83 as well as I recall for long bullets. That was the 429640 Lyman, the 44-300-SWC, a 433 Saeco and my big H & G 320 grain Keith. We figured it would also shoot the 429421 and it does quite well.

About that time Winchester hit the market with the 1-26 twist and we smiled because we knew they'd done their homework./beagle

tracker
05-29-2005, 11:11 AM
Can anyone tell me the trist rate of the EMF Hartford 1892 Lever Action Rifle in 44 Mag ? I am thinhing about this rifle. No information on their web site.

Thanks

Tracker

carpetman
05-29-2005, 12:16 PM
Tracker---Run a tight fitting brush all the way into your barrel and put a mark on top of the rod at the muzzle. Slowly pull the rod and the rod will rotate and when the mark has made a revolution and is back on top,measure the distance from the muzzle to the mark and you will have the twist rate so I'm told.

carpetman
05-29-2005, 12:17 PM
Tracker---ooopppss sorry--you dont have one in hand to do this.

StarMetal
05-29-2005, 12:25 PM
You have to make sure the brush is threated into the cleaning rod tight as you know sometimes they unscrew some when pulling the rod out.
Joe

carpetman
05-29-2005, 02:30 PM
You may or may not have to worry about the brush being tightly threaded into the rod. Depends on whether you have a CW or CCW twist. One way would tighten the brush as you push it down the barrel,so that would take care of it for you. The other would tighten it as you pull it out,so if it didnt fall off on entry,it won't fall off during removal. This same principle is applicable shooting bows. Broadheads and points will either loosen or tighten when they hit the target depending on whether CW or CCW rotation. If you have an artificial hand you might need to worry about it being secure as it might come off when you remove the rod,unless you are using your teeth instead of your hand to pull the rod. In this case,if you have dentures having plenty of Polident might be a concern. When removing the rod,be careful if you are near a fan that you dont get your hand or teeth in the fan. Not only would a fan be a concern,but other things--pot of lead,bare wires etc. make sure you dont bump into them. Check the area for rattlesnakes too--wouldn't want to go sticking your hand or head into ones mouth. Also make sure nobody is behind you as you might hit them. Make sure the area is large enough to do the job. If you went into a small closet,may not have room to remove the rod. Come to think of it,you probably cant even push a brush down the bore. Forget it ,bad idea. The brush might come loose.

NVcurmudgeon
05-29-2005, 06:35 PM
Ray, Now you've done it! If OSHA monitors this site, they will put out a regulation that cleaning brushes must be an integral part of the rod. Look how much it is going to cost us to clean our guns in the future. Many of us are retired and on fixed incomes, maybe we can appeal to AARP for assistance. Oops, I forgot AARP is anti-gun, no help there.

JohnH
06-02-2005, 11:27 PM
It ain't no lever, but my NEF 44 has a 1:38 twist and I shoot the Hornady 300 XTP just fine. No silly looking bullet holes, just dead on hits. 20.5 grians of H110 pushes the bullet to 1525. 21 grains same powder pushes the 270 Speer Gold Dot to 1575. Both bullets make 5 shot 3/4" groups at 50 yards. Plenty for woods deer. I have also tried more than a few 300ish cast bullets, all to naught except Magnus Bullet Co #704 300 grainer. Shot great. Was getting 1425 from 18 grians of H110, but ran out of the sample before I stepped on the throttle, but it shot great. I finally took the Lee 310 mold I bought and machined off the gas check shank, making a 265 grain plain base bullet. This bullet shoots good too.

From everything I have seen in 2 1/2 years and 5000+ rounds, the 265/270 grain bullets offer the best balance between velocity, energy and range, and will work in any of the offered barrels no matter how twisted they are. (pun intended)

It was Ruger that saddled us with the 1:38 twist when they brought out that 44 auto back in the sixties. 240's were heavy back then and all the bullet weight offered in factory ammo, and the 1:38 is all that is needed for that length/weight 44 bullet. The lever rifle makers followed Rugers lead after they let Bill guinea pig the market.

9.3X62AL
06-03-2005, 08:21 AM
My 1897-vintage Win '73 in 44-40 WCF has this 1-38" twist. The 44-40 was loaded with 200-217 grain bullets, and my rifle stabilizes these well. 240 grainers at 850 FPS go nose-first, but not very accurately. The 200 grain castings are minute-of-mule deer to 100 yards for sure, but I would limit shots to 75 yards using these boolits at 1100 FPS. Great-Grandpa and Grandpa used this rifle to take A BUNCH of venison, so its modest ballistics do fine work. To date, my only quarry with this rifle have been jackrabbits and a couple ground squirrels--both species expired post haste upon contact. The damage wreaked on the jacks was more extensive than I expected--those flat-nosed castings carry the load, all right.