How about Damascus?

[405]

I've heard nearly all my life about "Damascus" steel. Metal smithing/forging any refined product has always been way outside my expertise but have always been interested. The "mystery" of "Damascus" has a certain allure. Seems almost parallel development of laminated forging techniques took place in Asia, SE Asia and the Middle East.

Because of the nature of laminated metal it seems to have played a very important part in the history of blades. My paltry collection barely scratches the surface of the world of laminated blades. One group that is within my reach (6 figure Japanese blades are NOT!) has been the laminated blades of SE Asia. One type evolved into almost an exclusively art and costume form. While still deadly and functional, the Keris is very interesting to me in its evolved form. The legend of mixing meteoritic nickel-iron with other steels for the making of these blades is of great historic interest also.

About the only thing I have noticed about laminated blades is that they are very tough by structure and to some degree are self-sharpening.

Any thoughts out there about laminated, "Damascus", Wootz, watered steel blades?

Here's a pic of the base of one of my SE Asia blades, a Keris Bugis, ca late 1800s, showing laminar forging and metal sculpting by a first class Empu (blade smith of the region).

[Lloyd Smale]

I dont know alot about them but have two custom hunting knives that are damacus and just love them. Nothing is prettier, they take a sharp edge and seem to hold it.

[fryboy]

laminated layers of differing metals IMHO probably started as a necessity back in the late bronze age , bet they wished they had a few of the power hammers of today ! there are currently so many forms and patterns it's amazing !!! some are made more for looks than anything else , even mokume is a damascus of sorts , and if we include " pattern welding " the possibilities are endless , great foto amigo ! for the times and the tools back then it to me is even more awesome !

[jmh54738]

The American Rifleman magazine in the 1970s had the most complete feature on damascus that I have ever seen. It shows the stacking of the dissimilar metals and the resulting pattern. One fellow produced a damascus bar that when sliced from various angles always displayed his name in the pattern. I have hand forged damascus in a coal forge, only 16 layers, then twisted the fagot. From this bar I produced a letter opener, by metal removal, not by forging. By cutting through the layers of the twisted bar a pleasing swirl of pattern was developed when etched with acid. If I remember correctly, the acid will eat the more alloyed steel faster than the mild steel or wrought iron. The layered bar must be deformed in some way or only straight line appear in the pattern. The letter opener took "Best of Show" at a UW student art show about 25 years ago.

[RayinNH]

405, I little reading for your enjoyment. I new Don Fogg from the late 70's early 80's. I was smithing at the time and somehow we met. He lived about 5 miles away from me, in Nottingham NH. He was a part time hobby knife maker. Now you can't pick up a knife magazine or knife annual without seeing his name mentioned. He's a very high end maker and prices reflect that...Ray


http://www.dfoggknives.com/techniques.htm

[405]

Oh ya, the "world" of blades is huge!
I think "Damascus" steel is kind of a misnomer but has gained a generic status denoting pattern welded, laminated steel. No matter.

More pics of examples of Indonesian Keris blade forms.

The top pic is a Balinese blade from 1800s. It shows clear nickel-iron-alloy lamination but also exceptional sculpting. The blade likely belonged to a high ranking (Sultan's court) individual and made by another very skilled Empu. It is of Nagasasra (serpent/dragon) form.

The bottom two pics are of a more common and plain but very old Javanese Keris blade that could easily date back 250 years. The laminations run flat and parallel to the blade axis. Most Keris were regularly, by ceremony, cleansed, re-etched with citric acid then stained with arsenic. This blade never saw a stone or file after forging but remains plenty sharp as a thrusting weapon. The thin nickel alloy layers were not affected by the routine etching but the iron alloys receded leaving the thin layers of nickel alloy along the edges for the "self-sharpening" attribute.

[Lloyd Smale]

check out this guy http://winstonknives.blademakers.com/ he has made a few knives for me and does a great knife at a real reasonable price. He makes his own damascus steel.

[405]

The front cover of MLV's book, Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West, shows a photo prop of an especially handsome (to my eye anyway) pattern welded Bowie made by Steve Brooks. One of these days I will pursue a modern, custom knife along those lines by any number of the more current, talented makers. The study and pursuit of old guns and old blades seems to have taken most all my energy and $. :shock:

[Pb2au]

Damascus or pattern welded steel more or less was and is the product of the lamination of two or more types of steel that contains different amounts of carbon in it. For what I have learned, it would seem that this practice was done more for economy and functionality than many other reasons.
Steel as whole was pretty difficult to produce back in ye olde times. So it made some sense to manufacture a blade with steel cutting edges and an iron spine. Remember, wrought iron is just that, iron with trace amounts of silicon and other products from the production process. So, it was strong, but relatively soft. Steel is iron with more carbon in it, somewhere in the range of 0.8 to 2%. (these are some pretty rough numbers so forgive me.)
So, when we forge weld dissimilar steels together in a laminated fashion, you get the pretty nifty visual effect that we recognize as damascus. The neat sweeping swirls and lines are the borders of different carbon content coming together.
When done with some strategy, like with pattern welded knives and things, you will see sometimes a herringbone effect in the spine of a knife, with watery edges.
As for being better or stronger or whatever, there are a lot of opinions about that.

I make fixed blade belt knives from blending steel strapping I get from work with old saw blades. It is always a suprise to see what you get after the blade is done and has been filed, ground, polished and etched to bring out the patterns.
I would encourage anyone to google there heart's content on damascus. It is kind of interesting.

Mr. P.