8mm Karabiner & Maximum

[Ricochet]

I know this is old history, older I think than my membership on the old board. But I just ran across the 8mm Karabiner and Maximum moulds on Midsouth's site, and ordered both. (They were in stock.) Looks to me as though the only difference is a .1" shorter ogive on the Karabiner. I don't know the history of these two moulds and why they were designed that way; I'm guessing that some 8mm Mausers are throated too short to work well with the longer ogive?

The Maximum comes close to the same weight as the original 1888 "J" bullet, and the original velocity of close to 2100 FPS ought to be attainable with a cast boolit.

Up to this point I've just been shooting milsurp ammo in my Mausers. It's time to pick up some dies and brass and start loading cast in them, though. Same with my Mosins. I've already got the "Fat Thirty" die we did a year or two ago as a group buy for the Mosins.

[SharpsShooter]

I have the 8mm max and I do like it. However, I had to have a nose diameter reduction die custom made to make it work in my K98's throat. Simplly sizing them to .324 would not allow me to seat them out to the proper OAL and this caused the boolits to tumble. Be sure you have enough throat diameter to handle the large nose. It was designed for worn throat 8MM's. After modifying mine to throat properly, it will put 10 shots into an inch at 50yds if I do my part.

SS

[Ricochet]

I'll get to experiment with them soon. I ordered them yesterday just before posting this thread. They got shipped at 3:24 a.m. today and arrived at my office sometime this morning. And that was with standard FedEx shipping!

They sure are nice looking moulds.

I've got a variety of Mausers with widely varying wear. The Persian I got last week (one of the $200 "Very Good" ones from Samco) has an unfired looking bore.

[MTWeatherman]

I placed an order with Midsouth about 10 days ago...order arrived here this past Monday.

I intended to order both the Karabiner and Maxiumum also, but the Maximum was still on backorder so only got the Karabiner.

I expect your Karabiner is from the same lot run as mine. Based on previous comments here, I expected it to run heavy...but its even bigger than expected. I cast some up yesterday...with GC and lube that Karabiner runs 243 grains with WW.

For once Lee was actually on the fat side with the mould. My past luck with them has tended toward minimum sized (especially .44s) ...but this one is .324 on the nose just forward of the front band....and .3285 on the rear driving bands. Actually was hoping for a bit toward minimum sizing as looking at the initial design specs it appears to have already taken potential undersizing into account.

Haven't tried the bullet out yet, but I have to seat it to the front band in the K98 in order to chamber it. That puts the base of the bullet well below the cartridge shoulder. I really don't like gas checks seated below the neck...however the checks seem to be solidly crimped so its probably of little concern.

I have absolutely no data to loading that heavy a bullet, so will likely spend some time working up a load.

It is a nice looking bullet...one big meplat on it.

[StarMetal]

John,

I got a good supply of both those bullets. I've shot them in my Yugo 48B with receiver sights. I've shot them heavy and light and everywhere inbetween with alot of different powders. The powders didn't seem to effec the accuracy any. It'll shoot 1 inch easy at 100 yards if I do my part. I have no problems with any 8mm cast bullet to date as far as loading it out long. My Yugo apparently have a long enough throat. I also did a test for Oldfeller with the Lyman heavy spitzer nose 8mm mould 323471. I got it up to 2400 fps with no problems except the recoil was getting pretty stout. The accuracy was right there with the ones mentioned about. For your information I used surplus 4895, 860, 844, and 5010.

Joe

[Ricochet]

That's an encouraging report, Joe!

MTWeatherman, when the Maximum's seated to the front band, it's right at the SAAMI specified maximum overall length for the 8x57. I'm thinking of it as something similar to a cast version of the original Infanterie bullet, larger in diameter, of course. I expect that jacketed bullet stuck way down in the case, too. The Karabiner has a nose .1" shorter than the Max. It'd let you seat it out that much, or use it in a chamber with a throat that much shorter.

First thing I plan to do is cast some up, seat them in some unsized fired rounds for a sliding fit (assuming they'll easily seat that way) and try chambering them in various rifles to see what length they get pushed down to by the leade, and to make sure they don't bind in the chamber throat. I'll size 'em if I have to, but first I'm going to try crimping the checks on with a .30 caliber Factory Crimp Die. (Haven't tried that yet, but it looks like it would work. Put the check on the boolit base squarely, hold it in the top of the die so the top of the check's even with the top of the collet, bump the die down a bit at a time till the check mikes at the desired diameter.) I'm looking for a load that I can use in different rifles, even though I might give up some accuracy, so I expect to seat at a length that'll work in the magazine and full length size my cases to just close in the rifle with the tightest chamber.

First powder I'll try is IMR 7383. I'm well supplied with it, and have had good success with J-bullets in .22-250 and .30-06. 40 grains of the pulldown lot I have ought to be a good starting point. I doubt more than 45 grains will go in there, and if it will fit that'd probably be a safe full power load. (I've found it to give very similar ballistics to equal weights of 4350. It's lower density and can't be loaded to as heavy a charge, though.) For other powders, published data for 220 grain jacketed bullets are useful as guidelines for what should work with these bullets on the standard velocity end, I think.

[felix]

Ricochet, start at 40 grains in the 8 mauser. I find that strong enough for tic-tac-toe riva' shootin'. ... felix

[Ricochet]

Thanks, Felix! I figured that'd be about right.

[MTWeatherman]

Richochet:
You're right, looks just like a standard 8mm lengthwise...no real hint that there's over a 240 grain bullet sitting in it. With a front band spec. of .325, I'm sure this bullet is fuctioning exactly as designed as far as seating depth. I kept adjusting the depth until the lands engraved and right on that first band was where that happened. This is a pretty well worn rifle so that .324 nose wasn't a problem. So, it appears in my case, I've got a bullet functioning as designed.

My post was more a statement of fact on the required seating depth than complaint or surprise. Since I don't use a filler and likely will not be operating with a full case of powder, gas checks below the neck are a bit of concern...I don't want the bullet shedding the gas check after it moves into the case body. Its not an accuracy concern, just the risk of a secondary projectile and chamber ringing etc associated with it. (Of course in this old Mauser, the bore is so dark I likely wouldn't notice it if it happened.) Thats not a concern with jacketed, I use a .300 Win and those bullets are deep into the case body also.

Any suggestions on loads for this bullet are welcome...especialy with commercial powders since thats what I use.

[Buckshot]

..........The slower powders work well with those heavy slugs. My 240gr 8mm boolit from a 29" bll does 1950 fps with a casefull of 5020 surp ball (real slow) and left the bbl as clean as you'd like. Try some 4831 or the next slower. Start with a 80% casefull (and dacron).

...............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

MtWeatherman,

I didn't like the gascheck below the case neck either, but I can assure you that when it's under gas pressure from firing it's not going to come off, the gas is pushing on it to push the bullet out of the case. I've shot lots of them seated this way, so has Buckshot. I was more concerned with the hot gases doing something to the exposed bullet sides, but that's a non-issue also.

Joe

[Ricochet]

I think the only concern with a gas check below the case neck is if the check falls off in the case before firing. If it's securely crimped on and stays there till firing, it should be OK.

[Ricochet]

WOO-HOO!

FedEx got busy and got my Graf's and Widener's orders to me before the holiday weekend! Now I've got everything I need to start casting and loading 8x57 and 7.62x54R. I'm off to the basement and won't be back for a long while.
:mrgreen:

[Oldfeller]

Bass, where are you?

Hurry, they are at it again !!

They are a playing with their 8mms like they use real cartridge cases and they are a shooting them real nasty heavy style bullets all over again ....

Doing silly stuff like shooting american bison with them and treating them like they are an "effective hunting case and caliber" all over again. Auuggggh !! When will they learn?

Oh my goodness .... you foolish mortals what are you up to now ??

Bass -- hurry !!! I hear somebody is threatening to come out with a short body short action heavy bullet high BC 8mm magnum case for a modern firearm if you don't get a cracking and tell them all the error of their ways.

=================

Rest easy folks, Bass will be here momentarily.

Hold your enthusiasm and don't you dare shoot anything bigger than a chipmunk with them heavy cast slugs until he gets here with the facts.

Especially don't you dare shoot any of them heavy bullets out of those 8mms at around 2,100 fps -- you will violate the sacred RULE of the WHELEN and you will be chastised accordingly for treading on holy ground while using a simple inexpensive cast bullet mold, standard case and mil-surp firearm.

<g>


Oldfeller

[Ricochet]

Has anyone else noticed that a 225+ grain 8mm Max bullet at about 2100 FPS is just about exactly half as powerful as a 500 grain .458 Win Mag, with a similar profile and sectional density? Wouldn't want to get shot with a .458? How about half of a .458?

[Oldfeller]

Bass, hurry !!

They are talking about whacking some teen-aged elephants with active eye-twinkling speculation in their evil 8mm loving hearts.

Maybe they only really want to half-kill a full sized elephant?
What will they consider next ???

Where is the 35 WHELEN in all of this !!??!!

SACRALIGEOUS 8mm HEATHENS, Bass, make the bad thinking stop !!

When will this evil madness end?

Hurry Bass, hurry !!!

<g>

OF

[MTWeatherman]

Starmetal, I had no concern with the gascheck coming off when fired...concern was it coming off during the seating process and falling into the case as Ricochet pointed out.

The old Lyman checks (and I've used plenty of them) really didn't crimp onto the shank...appeared to be more of a friction fit. I'd be afraid to use them on this bullet. However, the Hornady's appear to be crimped on pretty solidly....and suspect the new Lymans, being a Hornady clone, would function as well.

Glad to hear no one has had any apparent problems with the issue.

Thanks for the tip Buckshot...my guess was slow was the way to go with the heavy bullet.

Didn't think of the energy aspect, Ricochet, but the bullet reminds me a lot of a scaled down 500 gr. 45-70 bullet. That vicious looking meplat on the Karabiner should make it an excellent hunting bullet.

[StarMetal]

MtWeatherman,

I use a filler so my checks aren't going anywhere if they should try to come loose when seating. Also when I know I am going to seat a gascheck bullet below the neck junction I check my gascheck fit before even loading that bullet.

Joe

[waksupi]

8X57 With cast, approximately =.358 win, .338 Federal, .35 Whelen, .338 Win Mag, and a goodly handful of others. Don't be changing the chambering in old Mausers, just becuz.

[Ricochet]

These 8mm Max I cast today are right at 250 grains naked! My scientifically formulated alloy was carefully measured by my calibrated Mark I eyeball to be about 1/4 wheelweights, and 3/4 soft lead scrap (largely sewer joint and roofing lead.) I water dropped 'em, and they're pretty hard, about like ACWW. They'll get a bit harder, I expect. They mic about .328" on the front band. About .325" on the rear one. I'm gonna have to size 'em to use 'em. They won't go into any of my fired 8mm cases, and have to be seated way deeper than the front band to chamber in most of my Mausers. The boolit takes up a lot of space inside the case. Haven't yet tried it in my loose-fitting 98/22 and 1944 K.Kale. (A little slack on headspace, and with considerable throat and bore wear.) Think I'll get a Lee sizing kit with a .323" die so I can push 'em through and size 'em full length.

[Ricochet]

Seated to the midpoint of the front band it'll go into the 98/22, the loosest of my Mausers, and close. Snugly. It'll just about close in the well worn '44 K. Kale. (Both of these have mismatched bolts as well.) It'll certainly work easily in both when sized down to .323" with the Lee die set I just ordered.

I haven't yet tried the Karabiner. With it's .1" shorter nose, it's likely better suited to the others with their tighter chambers, though of course sizing to .323" may make the Max work fine in all. I'll have to find out next week. For now, it's back to shooting milsurp ammo.

[Ricochet]

BTW, has anyone else noticed the bell-like ring of water-dropped boolits? I noticed that the first time I tried dropping wheelweight alloy (which actually was the first time I cast boolits.) This softer diluted wheelweight alloy still rings and jingles when water dropped. Air cooled boolits don't ring like that.

[Buckshot]

.............For some reason I decided my Heavy 8 (240gr) needed to go 2300 fps. I used a nice Turk M38/46 (24" bbl) and WC852. I reached 2300 fps with much abuse along the way and was glad I was finished, lemme tell ya. Also split the stock through the wrist but that was poor bedding and dry wood.

.............Buckshot

[Ricochet]

Hooo-wee! A 240 grainer at 2300 FPS is serious, for sure! I'd bet you were a bit above European factory load pressures with that.

It remains to be seen whether even 40 grains of bulky 7383 will go in these cases, as deeply as I have to seat the boolits. I'm not going to try loading any till I get my sizer and squeeze 'em down a bit.

[felix]

Cut it down to 37-38 grains for that heavy boolit! Your poor shoulder is at stake. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Little have taken heed to what Oldfeller and I have said. Oldfeller and I did an experiment to drive that slug past Buckshot's endeavors, which I did. Now some rifle I'm not recoil sensitive to, some I am. For example I don't care much to shoot the 375 H&H magnum off the bench, nor my 1886 Brownchester carbine with hot loads do to it's lighter carbine weight and curved steel buttplate, but my Yugo 48B Mauser althougth stiff with those heavy slugs heavy loads wasn't that bad----to me. If I remember correctly I went to 2400 something fps, with good hunting accuracy and no split stock. My action is glassbedded.

Joe

[felix]

Joe, as a matter of perspective, how much do you weigh? ... felix

[Ricochet]

The 8mm s.S. military loads with 198 grain bullets supposed to give 2560 FPS out of a long Mauser (I haven't actually chronied any of my milsurp ammo) don't feel heavy to me out of any of my Mausers. The Mosins feel like they kick more due to their buttplate design.

In case anybody's wondered, the above load is what the Persians/Iranians used, and the Persian Mauser's sights are regulated for.

Stock design makes a world of difference in how hard a gun "kicks." Even mild loads with light boolits in my 1973-built 1895 Marlin with that godawful curved hard rubber buttplate wear me out after shooting 30-40 rounds and leave visible bruising on a sore shoulder. The heavy loads with heavy boolits I used to stuff in it would leave a huge purple blotch that turned lots of interesting colors as it faded over the next 2-3 weeks. I've got a Wal-Mart Weatherby Vanguard with the black Tupperware stock in .300 Weatherby Magnum. With a 200 grain Speer spitzer crimped in over 100 grains (no, that's not a typo) of WC860 powder, it's not too bad off the bench and quite comfortable to shoot offhand. Don't crawl up too close to the scope, though!

I do have a shoulder problem since 6 years ago I got off my Harley the wrong way and wrapped my right arm up behind my head and around my back as I tumbled. I have a metal prosthesis for my upper humerus and the rest of the bone wired together, and had an A-C separation and all sorts of soft tissue trauma to go with it. When I was going through rehab I used to regularly go out and shoot those heavy .45-70s and lots of the Weatherby stuff, and come into P.T. with the big purple bruise. I was showing off. (It hurt like hell anyway, with or without the extra bruising.) I've gotten older, the shoulder's better, and I like to be more comfortable now.

[StarMetal]

John,

The German WWII machinegun ammo for the 8x57 was even hotter. I doubt the Germans doubted for one minute that this would be fired in rifles if ammo ran low in the heat of a battle. My friend has some of this and we fired it along with regular German issue rifle ammo and there is a dramatic difference!!! to say the least.

Joe

[Oldfeller]

Your Mauser really isn't going to beat you up that bad. Bad is reserved for the Steyr 8x56R when shooting Bass buster loads with a Frankie boolit.

(shudder)

Those what are smart folks use a loosely packed bag of bird shot as a shoulder guard between their shoulder and that hard cruel steel butt plate of that dainty little Austro-Hungarian carbine ....

Oldfeller

[StarMetal]

Oldfeller is right. Now that M95 carbine with the MOAB loads is nasty.

Joe

[Ricochet]

I've just determined that a 3.1 ml Lee scoop of IMR 7383 weighs 38.5 grains, and that's all that will fit in a Remington 8mm Mauser case with the 8mm Max or Karabiner seated to the front band. It's lightly compressed.

[Ricochet]

Well, I ended up seating them out to crimp in the second lube groove, and then found they wouldn't function from the magazines of my Mausers unless single loaded into the magazine. I loaded them over 3.4 CC of 7383, which is 41 grains. That's a mild load under these boolits, which weigh 252-253 grains with gas check. No pressure signs in my 1903 Turk, recoil is about like Yugo milsurp. Average MV is 1855 FPS.

On a lark I tried lubing the boolits by rubbing them on a toilet bowl sealing ring. Doesn't work. Got moderate leading. Alloy is, IIRC, about 1/3 wheelweights, 2/3 soft scrap, water quenched from the oven. After water dropping from the mould and hardening for a week, I couldn't size them, so back in the oven they went and I sized them quickly before they could harden.

Didn't have time to do any accuracy testing today, just shot a fast 20 rounds over the Chrony.

[Ricochet]

Those bowl ring waxed, long seated Max boolits over 3.4 cc of 7383 leaded a bit and shot patterns, not groups.

Just loaded some more seated to the middle of the top band over 3.1 cc 7383 (which is what will fit.) About 37 1/2 grains. These are lubed with Liquid Alox. Crimped the cases into that front band. They function fine through the magazine of my Persian at this length. Don't know if I'll get to try 'em this week, there's some sort of national match on the range this weekend.

[StarMetal]

John,

I don't have faith in that toilet bowl lube. Try 50/50 alox/beeswax.

Joe

[Ricochet]

Yeah, like I said, the toilet bowl lube doesn't work. I'm trying LLA. I really don't want to screw with the lubrisizer.

[Dutch4122]

John-

If LLA doesn't work to your satisfaction I have another method you can try that does not involve a lube-sizer. All that is needed is a small glass bowl, a hotplate, and a can of Johnson's Paste Wax. Fill the bowl with JPW and set it on the hotplate. Set the hotplate on a low setting like 1 or 2. Wait for the JPW to melt and then hold the boolits by the nose (with gas check already installed if a GC design) and dip them in the JPW for 3 or 4 seconds. Make sure you dip into the JPW deep enough to cover most of the bearing surface of the boolit. Then set the boolits base down on a sheet of wax paper to dry. You can quickly wipe the bases off after just a few minutes.

This method of dip lubing with JPW has worked for me in milsurp loads up to 1900 fps for plinking loads. Accuracy has been minute of paper plate at 100 yards which has been good enough for me and what I like to use these old battle rifles for.

One dry patch through the bore to wipe out the powder residue after shooting and my Persian Mauser's bore shines like the day it left the factory.

Hope this helps,

[Ricochet]

Hey Dutch, thanks for the tip!

I've got some .30 cal HBCs I tumble lubed with molten JPW a good long while back and haven't gotten around to loading yet. (The stuff dries hard as a brick.) I'd been thinking about the mess on the noses yesterday and thought holding them by the nose and dipping might be a good way to get around it. Glad to hear it's worked for you! I'll have to give it a try.

[Ricochet]

OK, now I've got a load with real potential. This is the deep seated 8mm Max, lubed with Lee Liquid Alox, over 3.1 cc (37 1/2 grains, approximately) of IMR 7383 in Remington cases, Lee Factory Crimped, in my Persian at 50 yards. I was shooting hurriedly just before dark and could barely see the sights, especially the rear. I suspect that accounts for the vertical stringing of the groups. There are two 5-shot groups on this target, nonsequential. The first was starting with a perfectly clean, oiled bore. The second was after I'd fired 10 rounds of the new load, fired up 4 remaining rounds of the long-seated load with 3.4 cc of 7383 (about 42 1/2 grains), lubed with the toilet bowl sealing wax (which leaded fairly badly), then came back and fired the second group on this target. Both groups strung progressively downward. Horizontal dispersion's not bad, maybe 1 1/4". The sun was way too low for my Chrony, so I've got no velocity data. The Lee Liquid Alox lubed boolits left a perfectly black bore, not a hint of lead. The 4 toilet waxed ones left a very light gray, mostly on the corners of the lands and grooves. I shot 10 more of the LLA lubed ones and can barely see the gray. There's a heavy black lube star on the muzzle.

I know this batch of boolits has problems with diameter and weight variation. I got some accidental Beagling due to debris in the hinge or something, and quite a few of them came out too fat. When I sized and checked them, some got sized way up on the ogive. (.323" Lee push-through.)

Anyway, here's the target with the two groups:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g166/SlidePicker/PersianCast9-19-6.jpg

[Buckshot]

.............Sounds and looks as if you're getting there, and having some fun along the way too!

.................Buckshot

[Ricochet]

Went back out today hoping to shoot a few groups. Found the rifle range so crowded with retirees practicing with their fancy .22 target rifle's for next week's national match (and one guy way down at one end with a .50 BMG) that I couldn't even find a parking spot! I just went up the hill and fired 10 rounds over my Chrony into a clay bank. Average 1791 FPS. The bore is black, and I'm not cleaning it this time.

Between the oldtimers with their .22s and the hunters who'll be out sighting in shortly, I think it's about time to put away the guns till February or so. I can't handle crowds at the range.

[waverace]

I just recently got the karabiner mold , its dropping heavy at 240 gns , loaded up some 8x57 for my buddies Turk Mauser and found that I had to load to the front band to get it to chamber , decided on 35 gns of H4895 from experience with other loads , gave a nice satisfying thump and crack , look forward to putting some on paper , next I took a few of the .323 sized bullets and ran them through my .314 sizer , this elongates them a little but they retain their weight , these I loaded up over 32 gns of H4895 for my .303 , same satisfying thump crack ,put a 4" group into a milk jug offhand without trying too hard , will report as soon as I can put some on paper .Also have a 8mm gibbs on its way to me so look forward to trying them in that .

[dualsport]

Welcome aboard wave. Sounds like this aint your first rodeo. Let us know how the accuracy tests go.

[waverace]

yeah Ive been around the block a couple of times , should have intro'd myself , been a member on THR for quite a while , just been sitting on the sidelines here until I had something useful to say .

[excess650]

I tried 30-35gr IMR4895 and 35-40gr IMR4350 with the 250gr Max. The lighter loads grouped better with both powders. The 4350 loads had noticeable recoil.

18gr AA5744 was my best load until I recrowned my barrel. Now that it is square, that load doesn't shoot as well, but lots of loads shoot better. 25-26gr H322 looks pretty good.

This is in a 1944 K Kale Turk with worn throat, 2.97" OAL.

[waverace]

Ive always been fond of H4895 I use it in most of my rifles , its seems very good for light loads .We thought my Buddys Turk was worn out and pitted until I brought it home to test these loads , I decided to clean it which took a while , the patches kept coming out dirty so I kept going , when I was done I looked down the bore and couldn't believe it , it is mint ! it was just leaded up and dirty when i took off the front top handguard to check out the barrel stamps it was full of grease or cosmoline , the wood on this rifle is a little knocked about and there's no blueing on it but mechanically its a peach , its very accurate with Remington factory loads , so I have great hope that I can develop a good cast load for this rifle .

[waverace]

Well I went out to the range on Saturday , unfortunately I dont have much good news , the rounds I loaded up for the 8mm Gibbs were quite literally all over the place couldn't even keep them on paper at 25 yds , I think this is mostly to do with the scope I was using , Ive tried this scope on a couple of rifles now with no success it just wont hold zero so I will have to wait until I can afford a new one .
The rounds I loaded up for the .303 worked ok , but not as good as the 200 gn boolits that came out of a Lyman mold , so back to the drawing board .
on a more cheerful note , the lead loads that I have for my 30-06 using a 170 gn boolit originally intended for the .303 worked very well so I will continue to work on those .

[dualsport]

I hate it when that happens. All that effort and no cigar. Hang in there. For what it's worth, some of my guns wear very very cheap scopes. I love my Loopy and Bushnell Elites, but I can't put one on everything. Some $30 scopes have given surprising service for dinking around at the range.

[diehard]

After much appreciated suggestions by a well respected member on this board (LG), I did a "ladder test" with the Karabiner bullet using 26.0-32.0 grains of IMR 4895 to see which load my GEW liked best. All bullets were double-lubed with liquid Alox using Ranch Dog's method, and after lubing came to an average of 241 grains. All of my brass was new reformed 30-06 brass that I neglected to anneal. What I found was that from 26.0 to 27.5 grains I had a very tight cluster at the 5 0'clock position of my 50 yard target. From 28.0 to 29.5 grains bullets were scattered about in random fashion, and from 30.0-32.0 more tight clusters at about 3 o'clock on the target. The problem I encountered was that from 29.0 to 32.0 grains all of my brass had flattened primers, and the 32.0 grain load actually split the un-annealed case mouth. Since then I have been very happy shooting 26.5 grains at dead bullseyes with this bullet. Someday, after I get the chance to chrono this load I hope to test it out on a deer or two.

BTW..my GEW was purchased with an inexpensive 4X Tasco mounted on it. Shoots so well I haven't even considered swapping it out.

Good luck with your load development.

[vintagesportsman]

Well, I am confused and somewhat elated. Seems there are mixed emotions about the Karabiner in the Yugo 48. I just bought one and my favorite Mausers is, you guessed it, an .308 Oberndorf, but anyway, the Yugo shoots sub 1" groups with the 323378 and in my premier quest for a better meplat Bear round I bought the Karabiner and made up a hundred rounds. To get them to chamber I have them seated to just below the first band - help! Am I going to die when I touch these off? Die hard, if you are still out there, lets connect, I am in the granite state too.

[Ricochet]

Am I going to die when I touch these off?
Depends on what you have loaded under them.

[vintagesportsman]

I use 18 grains of 2400 with the 323378 which is a 240grainer (@ least mine are) This seems to be the best load for accuracy @ 100 yards and no leading.

[Ricochet]

Sounds like you shouldn't die when you touch them off, as long as you keep the muzzle pointed away from yourself.

[vintagesportsman]

Ha! Now thats funny...thanks for the encouragement. I will post results when they are in.

[Ricochet]

I find it helpful to review the basics now and then. :)