25-35 Ackley Improved?

[Wayne Smith]

I'm still playing with ideas for my Martini action and am thinking of a .25 caliber. Want a rimmed case, and going through Donnelly and Townsley I find that the two rimmed cartridges that have the most capacity are the 25-35 Ackley Improved and the 25-303 Epps. A quick search turned up nothing on the Epps cartridge. The 25-35 appears to be one cartridge where the Ackley improvement is actually worth something. Case capacity goes from 2.31cc's in the Win. version to 2.96cc's in Ackley's version.

Anyone know what's actually involved in making these cases from 30-30? RCBS lists a whole plethora of very expensive dies - not that I'd start with them. Does one need a neck reamer and a neck reaming die just forming down from .30 to .25? I never did that with 30-06 to 25-06, but I was young and unsophisticated then. A trim die? The 25-35 Ackley is longer than the 30-30! (2.056 vs 1.967, probably just accounting for stretch)

BTW, isn't there a .25 Wildcat based on the 30-40 case that the authors apparantly missed??

I'm gonna be renting a reamer anyway, might as well play with ideas.

[John F.]

Why not just start with .25-35 brass? It is readily available and no expensive form dies required...

John

[leftiye]

25 Krag maybe. It's some larger. .444 Marlin necked to .25? A la SSK?

[Bret4207]

Get Handlaoders Wildcat book. Lotta info in there.

[jmh54738]

Wayne, In 1993 I got the bug for a 25 rifle. I started with a new pre-safety Marlin 336C and a Douglas XX 25 barrel. I think that I was making a poor man's Winchester. The barrel is 26" long with a full length magazine tube from Brownells. I used a forearm and cap from a ADL, so there is no clamp ring going around the barrel. The cartridge is a one of a kind, looking like a .225 Winchester with a long neck. I kept the 25 degree shoulder angle with thoughts of feeding in mind. I made the chambering reamer and the dies. I start with 30-30 brass and reduce the neck in two steps to 25 cal and fireform. Once that is done, I use the other dies that I made. I couldn't be happier with the result; it's my go-to rifle for deer or smaller and because it has never missed game shot at, I have extreme confidence in it. I started with calculations from a Powley "computer". Actual developed loads include: 60 grain 25-20 bullets at 3487fps. 100 grain at 2933 fps and 117 grain RN at 2639 fps. I use Ballistic Tip 100 grain bullets with the blue plastic nose turned off flat (for the magazine). I don't load or use the 60 grain for anything. The zero hasn't moved in years. It's sighted 2" high at 100. I have a shooting bench upstairs in the house. Great for taking pigeons off the top of the silo at 100 yards. It likes 86 grain lead GC for plinking. The last pigeon and wood chuck fell to a 86 grain lead bullet from a Remington pump 25-20, Model 25.

[No_1]

Wayne,

There is the 25 Krag and 25 Krag AI. I have dies & reamer for the AI version but have not done one for lack of a donor rifle. Come to think of it I have a #1 in 6mm Rem that has been sitting kinda lonely in the corner. Maybe it should be the one.

[Good Cheer]

I'm still playing with ideas for my Martini action and am thinking of a .25 caliber. Want a rimmed case, and going through Donnelly and Townsley I find that the two rimmed cartridges that have the most capacity are the 25-35 Ackley Improved and the 25-303 Epps. A quick search turned up nothing on the Epps cartridge. The 25-35 appears to be one cartridge where the Ackley improvement is actually worth something. Case capacity goes from 2.31cc's in the Win. version to 2.96cc's in Ackley's version.

Anyone know what's actually involved in making these cases from 30-30? RCBS lists a whole plethora of very expensive dies - not that I'd start with them. Does one need a neck reamer and a neck reaming die just forming down from .30 to .25? I never did that with 30-06 to 25-06, but I was young and unsophisticated then. A trim die? The 25-35 Ackley is longer than the 30-30! (2.056 vs 1.967, probably just accounting for stretch)

BTW, isn't there a .25 Wildcat based on the 30-40 case that the authors apparantly missed??

I'm gonna be renting a reamer anyway, might as well play with ideas.


I have Lee 25-35 dies. Sizing to make cases from 30-30's is OK. Lube dips at the base of the neck are hard to avoid.

I wanta try out a .250" diameter with paper patch.

[9.3X62AL]

P.O. Ackley comments in his book about the 25-35 AI as follows: Post-WWII Winchester 25-35 brass will not fire-form to AI chamber dimensions, and will result in case loss most of the time. THAT is the "back edge of the sword" concerning the large increase in case capacity over the OEM chamber.

My Win 94 carbine in 25-35 will do 2275-2300 FPS easily with Hornady 117 RN bullets, 27.0 grains of WW-760 lit by WLR primers. The bullet is built with those velocities in mind, and that 94 is without doubt the most accurate lever rifle I own. Its 1-8" twist plays hell with cast boolits past 1600 FPS, but up to that velocity it is a tackdriver.

I think you could do a lot worse than to chamber in the OEM 25-35 WCF. Like its first cousin the 30-30 WCF, it isn't spectacular performance-wise, but gets the job done in workmanlike fashion without a lot of fuss and bother.