Electrolytic Rust Removal

[TCLouis]

Some place recently I read a description of a home chemist method to remove rust, and only rust utilizing some "chemical solution" and applied current.

Any hints?

I don't want to go hi-Tech and build some whoopi-doo power supply.

One of my goals is to remove a magazine stuck in a Remington 1951 with the pistol still in "usable condition.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Rust Reduction via Electrolysis
By Mark Van Ditta, e-mail: smalltractorboy@yahoo.com
Cleaning badly rusted metal does not have to be hard work. Since red rust (ferrous oxide) formation is an electrochemical process (oxidation), all we need to do is reverse this process. During oxidation, electrons are given up by iron and combine with oxygen. The result is ferric oxide (black rust). When ferric oxide oxidizes, ferrous oxide is formed (red rust). What we need to do "reverse oxidize" the red rust (reduction); hence, donate electrons to the ferrous oxide.
The process we will use to reduce red rust is called "electrolysis." We will use four components in our electrolytic process: a battery charger (current source), base solution (electrolyte), piece sacrificial ferrous metal, which is connected to the positive battery charger terminal (anode), and the rusted part, which is connected to the negative battery charger terminal (cathode). The electrolyte will support current flow between the cathode and the anode. To make a complex subject short, the red rust on the item attached to the negative terminal will be reduced to clean metal and a form of black rust that is composed mostly of magnetite, and the item connected to the positive terminal will be converted to red rust. The beauty of this process is that the bond between the resulting clean metal and black oxide is much weaker than the one between the metal and red rust. This black rust will powder off easily. All that is needed to remove it is steel wool or a fine wire brush.
To build our electrolysis station, we will need the following items: a non-conductive container to hold the electrolyte, box of washing soda, 12 Volt battery charger (the process with work with as little as 2 Amps of current), and scrap ferrous metal (rebar works very well and does not contain the toxic metals chromium and nickel as does stainless steel). Washing soda (sodium carbonate) is usually available in the laundry additives section of better supermarkets. The brand that I use is manufactured by Arm and Hammer. In a pinch, electric dishwasher detergent will work as it is mostly sodium carbonate mixed with sodium silicate (water glass).
To make the electrolyte, add one tablespoon of washing soda per gallon of water. Washing soda tends to clump, so one needs to take one�s time and make sure that it is completely dissolved before proceeding. After one has the electrolyte mixed, one needs to submerge one's cathode (rusted part) and anode (scrap ferrous metal) in the solution. Position the cathode and anode such that they are very close to each other, but do not allow them to touch. Please note that the anode is going to be oxidized to nothing over time, so try to keep the positive terminal out of the solution. The negative terminal can be submersed. Also, please have the power to the charger disconnected whenever connecting/disconnecting the terminals or adjusting the anode/cathode. Water is separated into hydrogen and oxygen gas. On nuclear submarines, electrolysis is one of the methods used to replenish oxygen. The resulting hydrogen is pumped over the side, and for good reason, it is flammable! Hydrogen and oxygen, when mixed in gaseous form, are an extremely explosive combination (remember the Hindenburg).
Once one has one's anode and cathode situated, one can apply power. However, please insure that one has good air flow in the room in which electrolysis is being performed as one does not wish to experience gas build up.
In closing, one additional benefit of electrolysis is the scrubbing that occurs as hydrogen is released at the cathode. These bubbles clean the contaminants from the surface of the metal, and if given enough to time to work, will remove paint as well.

[imashooter2]

A quick and easy set up I have used several times:

http://www.imashooter2.com/pictures/ERR-out.jpg

http://www.imashooter2.com/pictures/ERR-in.jpg

The trickle charger shown works over 24 - 48 hours on heavily rusted items, faster on light rust. A 10 amp charger does the same heavily rusted stuff overnight. The higher the amperage on the charger the faster it works, but the wires will need to be larger and the solution boils off so needs to be watched. Use a big enough container.

Washing soda in water is the preferred solution, but baking soda works in a pinch. A couple tablespoons to the gallon is good.

[TCLouis]

Yahoo, 2 years in kerosene has not done it, good wash down and this coming weekend and it is time to try this.

Thanx all.

[ilcop22]

I'm definitely bookmarking this. Excellent information.

[imashooter2]

In my setup, the steel strap is actually bent into a U to provide better exposure to the parts being cleaned. You can't see the rear vertical leg as it's blocked by the paint stirrer.

Here's a link that shows a more elaborate tank than what I set up.
http://www.smex.net.au/Reference/RustRemoval02.htm

[Freischütz]

Try http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm#Removal

[Beekeeper]

TCLouis,
I have been using an electrolis cleaner for years.
I use a simple cell phone or small appliance charger to do the work.
I think there is no better way to clean an old milsurp barrel.
I have done a couple of the IMA as is Gahendra Martini;s and if you had seen them when I got them you would be sick. They turned out real nice.You can use ammonia to get copper out of a barrel and washing (baking ) soda to get the rust and lead.
It works great in all aspects of cleaning .
****WARNING****
Be sure to hook it up as Imashooter2 shows or you will take material off of the parts you are trying to preserve.
On something that has marginal blue you may have to reblue after cleaning.
That part doesn't bother me as I always reblue when I do one of the junkers I work on.


Jim

[XWrench3]

i used a plastic trash can (a small one), a 12v battery charger, and a dozen boxes of arm and hammer to derust my cast iron smelting pot when i first got it. you need a peice of steel to act as a "anode" if my teminology is correct. stainless steel works much better from what i have been told, as you can wipe off most of the crud that will collect on it. if you use regular steel, be prepared to trash it (and the plastic can you put it in) when you are done, as the crud will embed itself into the steel, and stain the plastic. not sure if it will on stainless or not. anyway, the more arm and hammer you put in the water, the more current will go through the solution, and the faster it will work. hook + to the anode, and - to the item you want to derust. it still took me 3 days to get all the rust off from my pot (it was NASTY!). you will need to change the soloution a few times, and clean the anode a lot, probably every few hours. the cleaner the anode, the more current also. current seems to be the big thing. i had got as much as 6 amps going through the soloution (8 amp charger). when this was happening, you could see the gasses boiling up off from the rusty metal. when you are done (at least with cast iron) you will have a BLACK cast iron whatever. my steel "anode" just looked nasty rusty, and it will not come off. even grinding, there are still embeded pits into the steel. if you have questions for me, please reply here. if you pm me, i may not see it for months!

[Trailblazer]

I used that setup to derust the wheel centers for my Massey Harris 33. I used an old bathtub with a 6 mil plastic liner and a battery charger. I used rebar and heavy wire mesh for the anode. It is the best way to remove rust on large parts I have found. Someday I have to do the rest of the tractor.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh267/hwy33pics/Massey%20Harris/TheSetup.jpg

[mroliver77]

Could electrolysis be used to clean aluminum? Mebbe with a different electrolyte? I had a bunch of engine parts in the haymow and raccoons pooped in the boxes so much that parts were covered and rusted or corroded. There are pistons still on rods that are stuck and need cleaned well before trying to free them up. Being there is aluminum and steel together I figure it will not work but it never hurts to ask.
Also the only thing I could find that I think is soda is 20 muleteem Borax. Would this be the stuff?
TIA Jay

[imashooter2]

Can't help on the aluminum corrosion.

Borax is sodium borate. Washing soda is sodium carbonate. They are not the same thing. I have gotten decent results with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) though.

[wills]

Electrolysis Rust Removal, older discussions

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=35870&highlight=Electrolysis+Rust+Removal

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=4257&highlight=Electrolysis+Rust+Removal

Also Molasses

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=23338&highlight=molasses+rust+removal