Reasons for "fliers"???

[Tedly]

Wondering why I get fliers.For me seems to be a more common an occurence in this cast boolit shooting..I found a great load last week, had a flier in a 10 shot string rested at 100 yds. Shot the same gun today , same bullets, etc.. Only used Wolf primers instead of WW that I couldn't get, group opened up a bit but still had 2 fliers. As shooting progressed and barrel got hot , all went down hill and looked like shot gun pattern. I don't have a proper case mouth flare tool and use a RCBS bullet puller with a bullet mounted upside down in my press...innovative but hardly precise...Could I be having neck flaring /smoothing crimp variation enough to cause fliers ? Also I don't know , but are cast boolit loads just as influenced by a hot barrel opening up a group? What are common causes of fliers and increased group sizes ? Thanks...Tedly

[Ben]

Could I be having neck flaring /smoothing crimp variation enough to cause fliers ?

Yes definitely !
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Also I don't know , but are cast boolit loads just as influenced by a hot barrel opening up a group?

An excessively hot barrel will often open up groups with fliers.
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What are common causes of fliers and increased group sizes ?

Wrong primers
Bullet weight variations
Voids in bullets
powder measuring systems that aren't accurate
etc.
etc.

[TCLouis]

I throw back any boolit with a hollow void in the base, yet I find some boolits in my berm with a void. It is my assumption that the sprue cutter seals over some of them and these may well be were "our" fliers are coming from.

I guess the pressure from the powder gas opens the void.

Everything I have read has stated that base issues are more critical than one on the point.
At least that is my SWAG

[damron g]

[QUOTE= but are cast boolit loads just as influenced by a hot barrel opening up a group? What are common causes of fliers and increased group sizes ? Thanks...Tedly[/QUOTE]

Recently in 100 deg weather a 30 caliber plain base load that shoots many groups near 1" in 75deg was stringing them up and down to 3"+ groups, so in that gun temp did seem to really matter.Cooled down the gun shot well.Other rifles I can shoot pretty hot and accuracy wont "shotgun",but not be as good as a cooled barrel for sure.. The "flyers" you are experiencing is just part of the cast bullet game.Neck tension,lube amount etc.all matter,but one isn't necessarily the only answer of why flyers happen.i have intentionally shot very bad bullets only to find it landed in the group!
I tell you 10 shot groups separate the men for the boys! I have shot many cast bullet rifle matches and there are more "OH S**TS" in the 10 shot matches than any other.


George

[rhbrink]

So many variables it's hard to pinpiont one thing but something I have found is too much lube can cause a wild shot now and then. Maybe try to use one less grease groove filled with lube? If you are using a really good lube and the barrel condition is very good it's surprising how little lube you can use to shoot great groups. Also try weighting those boolits.

[atr]

fliers.....hummmm....after you have eliminated all the variables (see Ben's post above)
there is still the human element...as in you have to hold steady on the target....
alot of my so-called fliers got eliminated as my shooting skills got better

ps...
I found that the variations in neck flaring and crimping were responsible for alot of group spreading....
using M-dies and collet dies DID help tighten up my shooting groups...you might try them yourself

[Calamity Jake]

Undectable voids in the boolits are the main reason for flyers and not just in the base I closely inspect all match boolits and weigh sort into groups for .5 grain total weight and still get at least one flyer in a 10 shot string some times 2
The next issue is lube purging, I have cut down the amount lube to just the groove above GC and or sometimes the lowest lube groove, that helps most of the time.
Case to boolit runout is another, I have a lot of trouble with runout and have not been able to find a way to control it. I can load one or more rounds and have runout less than .002, the next may be .005-.015, I've had some as bad as .030, all loaded on the same tooling.
Bedding issues/heat can play a part, also with the way the gun is setup on the bench/bags.

[Larry Gibson]

Tedly

Hard to tell without knowing specific details of cartridge load, rifle used and details of bullet used.

Larry Gibson

[geargnasher]

Tedly

Hard to tell without knowing specific details of cartridge load, rifle used and details of bullet used.

Larry Gibson

...And what lube.

Gear