View Full Version : It Is ALIVE! Automated Master Caster
Hello fellow casters,
After 7 months I have completed the automation of my Magma Master Caster.
It all started a couple of years ago when Dad decided he either was getting too old to cast OR he had no desire to load for himself anymore but he still had the desire to shoot. Either way, it left the job of casting and loading for him up to me and the brothers. As everyone knows, life gets in the way and I ended up being the supplier for my Dad's habit.
I had done OK feeding my own addiction with a Lee 4-20 PRO which had been modified with a PID controller and RCBS sizer but fell short with the additional duties upon me now.
One day after reading the numerous post by those who have Master Casters I broke down and purchased one. The intent from the beginning was automation. I quick call to Magma Engineering netted me a Master Caster with 1 mould of my choice which would be the 45-230 RNBB. The mould choice was a no brainier since 45 was the caliber of choice for him and I.
What I thought would be an easy task turned out to be a monumental assignment. First I had to figure out the drive unit. I considered pneumatic power but figured a air cylinder for the Star lube sizer was in my future so I settled on hydraulic. I quick look around netted me an all-in-1 power units off of an old pipe notcher and a spare motor which would provide me 1 for now and 1 "just in case". A visit to the local hydraulic shop got all the hoses and a switching valve.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/Magma%20Master%20Caster/DSC01366.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/Magma%20Master%20Caster/DSC01365.jpg
A few hours in the shop netted me a hydraulic cylinder. This started out as a 1 1/2" cylinder but later was reduced in size by sleeving the cylinder in order to get faster reaction time. The brass valve on top controls the return speed which was initially too fast. A little more time in the machine shop netted me the actuating arm seen in the picture.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/Magma%20Master%20Caster/DSC01364.jpg
When it came time to figure out the control system I let my fingers do the walking though the parts catalog where the decision was made to use electronic timers. These are wonderful things which can control ever step of the action. These are mounted inside a weatherproof enclosure. Not seen is the step down transformer. Since I chose a 220V pot it only made sense to change some wires in the motor so it would operate on 220V. The timers are 120V so I needed to step the power down which is where the transformer comes in. This gives me the ability to plug 1 cord in then rock in roll. The only thing I wish to add now is a PID controller to better control the lead temperature. It seems the action of the machine causes the knob on the side of the pot to "walk" toward maximum temperature.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/Magma%20Master%20Caster/DSC01360.jpg
You may wonder if I am happy with the way it turn out. Considering I was told by Magma that others had tried it and it could not be done I would have to say it was an overall success. I must be honest and admit there are a few small gremlins that still pester me but I believe one is related to a bad timer and the other is just a modification to the electromagnetic actuator that controls the lead pour.
As I type this it is running with no labor from me and putting out boolits at a rate of 550 per hour. I know it can run faster because last week on a test run I had it doing a calculated 800 boolits per hour but was having problems with the mould overheating. I think that could be solved with more cooling fans but at 550 boolits per hour I am happy!
Here is a closing shot of 2 hours production and an overall picture of the setup.
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/Magma%20Master%20Caster/DSC01377.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206/no_one_photos/Magma%20Master%20Caster/DSC01361.jpg
Munkeyjoe
08-01-2010, 11:21 AM
TEAR......
I think thats the most beautiful thing my eyes have ever seen.......
WallyM3
08-01-2010, 11:39 AM
:holysheep
I know just enough to appreciate it, but not enough to do it.
That is one marvelous development job and some very cool fabrication and machining.
Congratulations!
Edit: Maybe Magma would like a link.
So they can take what "can't be done" and sell it? I wonder what they would give me for my effort?
R.
:holysheep
I know just enough to appreciate it, but not enough to do it.
That is one marvelous development job and some very cool fabrication and machining.
Congratulations!
Edit: Maybe Magma would like a link.
Doby45
08-01-2010, 12:08 PM
My favorite part of the WHOLE thing is the "MAKE BULLETS" sticker on the power switch. Even though it SHOULD read "MAKE BOOLITS". :)
WallyM3
08-01-2010, 12:16 PM
"So they can take what "can't be done" and sell it? I wonder what they would give me for my effort?"
(sigh) Of course, you're quite right.
Shame, ain't it.
shaggist
08-01-2010, 01:07 PM
You need to have your modification copyrighted, to protect your inventive genius. I know just enough about what you did to be unbelievably impressed. It would be a shame if Magma or someone else were able to pirate that away from you without due compensation. Your knowledge and inventiveness are intellectual property. I believe a copyright would protect that.
geargnasher
08-01-2010, 01:40 PM
My favorite part of the WHOLE thing is the "MAKE BULLETS" sticker on the power switch. Even though it SHOULD read "MAKE BOOLITS". :)
MINE TOO!!
My second favorite thing in the pictures is the length of the grass on the front lawn. With projects like that, who has time to mow!
Gear
no 1,
That is absolutely outstanding !!!
Congradulations on your sucess.
waksupi
08-01-2010, 03:13 PM
Great job, Rob! Definitely beyond my capabilities!
Blammer
08-01-2010, 03:26 PM
Wow! that is awesome!
I'd buy 1,000 boolits from you just to watch it run! (but of course they'd have to be plain base as the bevel causes havoc on my sizer. :D )
I like the 4" half pan to catch the boolits and stuff in. (Reminds me of when I was a cook. :) )
Geargnasher,
It was just cut the other day!
Blammer,
Come on down and watch it run, since you are paying you can size them in my star for free, it does fine with BB boolits. [smilie=w:
MINE TOO!!
My second favorite thing in the pictures is the length of the grass on the front lawn. With projects like that, who has time to mow!
Gear
Wow! that is awesome!
I'd buy 1,000 boolits from you just to watch it run! (but of course they'd have to be plain base as the bevel causes havoc on my sizer. :D )
I like the 4" half pan to catch the boolits and stuff in. (Reminds me of when I was a cook. :) )
I got a bunch of those from the salvage yard. I use them for all kinds of things. It seemed like a great idea for this application. The rails are 1x1 stainless angle (again from the scrap yard). I start with the pan slid partially out and as it fills I push it in. I fold a towel then lay it crossways in the pan to seperate the boolits from the sprues. When the back half of the pan gets full I slide the towel (and sprues) closer to the front, slide the pan in a little further and let the next pile of boolits begin. When not in use I store the various things such as thermometer, hammer, wrenches & bullplate lube in the pan.
Wow! that is awesome!
I'd buy 1,000 boolits from you just to watch it run! (but of course they'd have to be plain base as the bevel causes havoc on my sizer. :D )
I like the 4" half pan to catch the boolits and stuff in. (Reminds me of when I was a cook. :) )
Pertsev
08-02-2010, 12:14 AM
That is very cool. Yes,a copyright is something to consider. If you had the time and inclination there are probably more than a few Master Caster owners who would like to have the same set-up.
Dannix
08-02-2010, 01:42 AM
You need to have your modification copyrighted...
Copyright is by default. It only covers text/images/speech though. For example, if GunRag grabbed no_1's post and published it, even with affermation, that would be a breach of copyright unless no_1 OKed it. What no_1 need is a patent...and good luck with that for reasons I won't elaborate. The best course of action to make money? Stay hush hush on all the details, post only the bear minimum to attract buyers, and make these mods for those who wish it...but then good luck doing that without starting a support company, if you're going to hide your techniques. This forum tends to not be based on secrets anyway, but on capability. Like me, not having the capability to make molds, paying out for a vendor here to make me one. Just thought I'd clear that up a bit since two posters mentioned copyright.
Nice bit of kit no_1! Is this the kind of gear companies like Penn bullets use, or is there a next level up for the 'big' guys?
JIMinPHX
08-02-2010, 03:38 AM
Geeze Louise... You take this a whole lot more seriously than I do & that's for sure.
Nice job there. I would certainly color that as an accomplishment.
If you want to protect that idea as being yours, the first thing that you want to do is take pictures of it & any drawings that you have & send them to yourself via certified mail. Don't open the envelope when it gets back to you, just put it away. That is a legal reference that shows you had this on a particular day. It's sometimes called a poor man's patent. It's not as good as a real patent, but for less than $5, you get some proof to work with.
If you ever decide that you want to do a second generation of the controls on that thing, look up PLCs. A PLC is a little gizmo that is programmable & can provide all sorts of different control schemes. The cheapest one out there is sure to have more than 10 timers available inside it. It can do a lot more than that too.
Again,
Nice Job!
Lloyd Smale
08-02-2010, 07:21 AM
thats impressive pal! I sure wish i had the brain power to take on jobs like that!!
Mumblypeg
08-02-2010, 09:43 AM
MINE TOO!!
My second favorite thing in the pictures is the length of the grass on the front lawn. With projects like that, who has time to mow!
Gear
What grass? All I saw was blue and grey... hummmm... outstanding... now I'm going out to cut MY grass:coffee::drinks:
casterofboolits
08-03-2010, 11:40 AM
Kudos and hats off to you. That is a heck of a conversion![smilie=w:[smilie=w:
Thanks for all the compliments guys!
Pertsev
08-03-2010, 10:51 PM
You are welcome for the compliments.
Now the question is: When are you going to offer this conversion to your fellow Master Caster Owners ??[smilie=s:
It may be a bit costly. The timers alone are $85 each and the sockets for them is $6 so figure $730 just for those.....
Baron von Trollwhack
08-04-2010, 01:44 PM
A prime example of the American Spirit in booliteering ! Like the fellows pioneering in moulds, gas checks, and lubes. Hurrah for Old Glory and the the Cast Booliteers !
BvT
WallyM3
08-04-2010, 01:47 PM
I think Al Gore invented something like it...
:groner:
Good thing he invented the internet or I would not be able to show it off!:groner:
uncle joe
08-04-2010, 05:09 PM
great work Rob, you should try a small micrologix plc instead of all the timing relays, you could add lots more bells and whistles.
I just wish I could shoot as much as that thing will produce.
UJ
angus6
08-04-2010, 08:33 PM
It may be a bit costly. The timers alone are $85 each and the sockets for them is $6 so figure $730 just for those.....
was there a reason that you didn't go the PLC route ?
plan on redoing the bullet master this winter and setting it up with PLC controls
To be honest, I had forgotten about PLC's. I briefly thought about re-doing it but it is working fine as is. Time to move on to another cool project.
R,
My hat's off to ya.................Creeker
Ken TN
08-07-2010, 02:58 AM
Great job on the update. I was in a gun shop this past week and they showed me their Magma Casting set up. They make boolits for a reloadong company and were doing a run while I was there.... WOW they had the big Magma and it was amazing to watch it work.
Ken TN
Artful
08-07-2010, 03:10 AM
Cool Beans - reminds me of you-tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr7RCO49I60
Cool Beans - reminds me of you-tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr7RCO49I60
Mines not near that clean. HEE HEE
dragonrider
08-08-2010, 10:09 AM
That's about as cool as can be,
Tom Krein
08-08-2010, 10:14 AM
That is AWESOME!
I agree I would be there are a BUNCH of guys with Master Casters that would be VERY interested in that! Makes me want to get a Master Caster!!
WELL DONE!
Tom
82nd airborne
08-08-2010, 01:15 PM
No. 1, Patent that think NOW!!! trust me, you will be sorry if you dont.
JIMinPHX
08-11-2010, 04:08 PM
To be honest, I had forgotten about PLC's. I briefly thought about re-doing it but it is working fine as is. Time to move on to another cool project.
R,
Try to keep them in mind for next time. You can get the little ones for like $200 now. That probably would be a whole lot less expensive than buying a bunch of discrete control components.
Ken 45LC
08-17-2010, 01:06 PM
I sure would be willing to let you use mine for a few months if you wanted to try the PLC route. That sure is a nice setup, my hats off to you.
Let me know if there's anything i could do to persuade you to fitting mine up that way.
Thanks,
Ken
Hammer
08-28-2010, 08:49 PM
Gives us dreamers something to drool over.....
Well Done!!!!!!
Thanks for all the comments. Would I do it again? I don't know. I think if I were to go this route again I would use the PLC board.
I ran it today while sitting in the shade drinking diet coke. It needed some adjustment before it was running smooth but I did get about 3000 boolits out of it before I got tired of watching it run.:drinks:
Dannix
08-28-2010, 11:48 PM
I had done OK feeding my own addiction with a Lee 4-20 PRO which had been modified with a PID controller and RCBS sizer but fell short with the additional duties upon me now.
Could you elaborate on your Lee PID modification? Got a thread on it?
Suo Gan
08-29-2010, 02:00 AM
Seen a lot of things here. As far as the complex stuff goes this is by far the best completed idea I have seen yet! "As I type this I am casting 550 boolits"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will probably never be able to afford the master caster, let alone the cost of having one of these built for me. But, you should consider making and selling these.
AbitNutz
08-30-2010, 04:18 PM
I think that is significantly better than hiring a "man servant" . Well, maybe not. Try yelling at it to go get a beer.
Blammer
09-03-2010, 09:26 AM
Well we know what he'll be doing on labor day.
Watching his machine run!
We need some video of it running!
uncle joe
09-03-2010, 09:28 AM
Hey RobBob how bout a video of this Magnaifficent machine in operation !!
carpediem4570
01-15-2011, 01:40 AM
Dear Sir:
having just now seen your added automation for your master caster, I am interested in purchasing a model for my master caster.
Aster having run a commercial casting business for ten years, I am selling my two Magma cast masters and lube sizer and all my mold sets. I do want to continue casting for my personal use and would like to automate my master caster.
Here is the rub, I am a ludite when it comes to things electrical, mechanical, etc. Therefore I rely on geniuses such as yourself to buy from.
Would you be interested in producing another automation system and selling it to me?
I look forward to hearing from you. You can e-mail me at mgraefe@telusplanet.net . I am in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
Kind regards,
Max
Carpediem4570
Calehedron
01-15-2011, 12:41 PM
After reading the history of Dillon Precision, this is almost the same thing.
The story is Mr. Dillon was given a Star/Magma Loader in a single caliber way back when and he asked them if they sold conversion kits. They told him they only sold them as is with one caliber and if he wanted to change it, it was up to him. He figured out how to make new toolheads to swap and sold them to friends and the rest "progressively" grew into the Dillon Precision we know today.
I think some of the best inventions have come when someone was told, "It cant be done" or "If you want it, do it yourself".
Skipper488
01-20-2011, 08:40 PM
[smilie=l:
Try to keep them in mind for next time. You can get the little ones for like $200 now. That probably would be a whole lot less expensive than buying a bunch of discrete control components.
You can get them for as low as $99 (http://http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/DirectLogic_Series_PLCs_(Micro_to_Small,_Brick_-a-_Modular)/DirectLogic_05_(Micro_Brick_PLC)/PLC_Units/D0-05DD)and the software is free for a limited version. I am an electrical engineer/programmer for a small integration shop in Nashville and we use this one a lot for low end jobs. The high end ones cost more than $6000 for the PLC and another $5000 for the software. Of course I can run an entire factory with one of those.
Dannix
01-20-2011, 10:43 PM
Skipper, that link has a goofed prefix. Here's working link (http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Programmable_Controllers/DirectLogic_Series_PLCs_%28Micro_to_Small,_Brick_-a-_Modular%29/DirectLogic_05_%28Micro_Brick_PLC%29/PLC_Units/D0-05DD). Thanks for sharing Skipper! I'll remember to send you PMs with questions if I ever attempt this myself. :mrgreen:
Screenshot of what's at that link attached for future reference should that page go down (seems vendors like to do that sometimes).
Skipper488
01-21-2011, 03:04 PM
Hey any time. I do this for a living but I'm happy to share with fellow hobbyists
To be honest, it was a huge pain (and pretty expensive) to get together. For the effort I expended I almost wish I had kept my eyes out for a used production machine and rebuilt it. It does work great but it is not the kind of adventure I would like to go though again.
Sorry,
Robert
Dear Sir:
having just now seen your added automation for your master caster, I am interested in purchasing a model for my master caster.
Aster having run a commercial casting business for ten years, I am selling my two Magma cast masters and lube sizer and all my mold sets. I do want to continue casting for my personal use and would like to automate my master caster.
Here is the rub, I am a ludite when it comes to things electrical, mechanical, etc. Therefore I rely on geniuses such as yourself to buy from.
Would you be interested in producing another automation system and selling it to me?
I look forward to hearing from you. You can e-mail me at mgraefe@telusplanet.net . I am in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
Kind regards,
Max
Carpediem4570
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