I was told today that lead is hazardous

[ExcIsAc]

I met a guy today who I later learned works at a very large police training center.

In the course of our conversation he mentioned they had built a huge outdoor range several years ago but now they cannot use use it due to the environmental contamination caused by all the lead bullets. Now they do all their shooting at an indoor range. He mentioned they load out three cubic meters (almost 4 cubic yards of empty handgun brass every two to three months. I asked what they do with all the brass and lead hoping I could get an angle on some of one or the other or both. The brass is all sent to a remanufacturer but the lead "is too hazardous" so it is sent to an abandoned mine where it is buried deep underground.

In my mind I can't imagine the volume of lead required to result in three cubic meters of fired brass handgun cartridges. Each bullet would weigh significantly more than the case in which it was loaded. It is beyond my mental capabilities.

Also beyond my comprehension is the underground disposal. I am sure this facility (funded by taxpayers) is paying for the "safe disposal" of all this lead but even selling the lead at $0.25/pound to China or a scrapyard or a bullet caster would be better than burying it all.

[deerslayer]

Are you in California??

[Munkeyjoe]

Are you in California??

:Giggle:


Wow thats kinda odd. I shoot at a DOC outdoor range and at a Civ indoor range when the weather is not cooperative with quaterly qualifying. the ranges are both cleaned of and reused (not sure about the DOC range, will ask next time!!)The guy in the indoor range sells the ingots he collects to improve his range im told.

and have never heard of "burying" lead to be a safe Eco-friendly way of disposal. This seems kinda odd assome complain abouty backyard home Burm backstops contaminating, and here a agency (be it State, county, city or Feds) is collecting large amounts and putting it in the ground....... Very odd indeed.....:?:

[snsbpb]

[QUOTE=ExcIsAc;961212]so it is sent to an abandoned mine where it is buried deep underground.
QUOTE]

Kinda reminds me of comex telling of all the treasury gold that is in "deep storage". It's just another way of saying, "out of sight, out of mind" and we are not going to account for it. Someone done stole it a long time ago and would cause panic if the truth were known.

Now I'm not the brightest bulb in the pack, but i'm not interested in any "paper lead".

[randyrat]

I'll bet that fellow at the range has an interest in that lead and brass and he would like to stop you from asking anymore questions about it. Is this fellow the range master? Maybe someone else gave this fellow a good story. If someone told me that story, i would be even more curious than "Curious George"

They don't recycle lead by putting in the ground

[ubetcha]

It's amazing that some people either forget or don't realize that lead comes from the ground to begin with.We as cast bullet shooter are just recycling or returning it back to the ground only at a faster volocity

[JIMinPHX]

I wonder if there is actually anything at all in the bottom of that old mine...

There is an open scrap market for lead. Recyclers buy it by the truckload. Lead/acid batteries (much more hazardous than used boolits) are the most commonly recycled item in the world. They get something like a 97% recycle rate. What you were told is ether blatant stupidity or an outright lie.

[cbrick]

Are you in California??

Yep, it simply must be California. ONLY California would consider such a thing. ONLY in California is there stupidity.

Besides, it's just so much easier to blame California and go on with your head firmly planted in your hieny.



Rick

[lwknight]

OH, thats just brilliant. The police disposal is burying the lead while miners are steady digging it up somewhere else.

[home in oz]

The range guy's story DOES sound fishy, at best.

[littlejack]

You bet your *** it's dangerous. If it wasn't dangerous, I wouldn't be shootin it.
It's REALLY dangerous anywhere from 400 to 2500 fps.
Jack

[fredj338]

Yep, it simply must be California. ONLY California would consider such a thing. ONLY in California is there stupidity.

Besides, it's just so much easier to blame California and go on with your head firmly planted in your hieny.

Rick
Only Kalifornia? Hardly. I believe NJ also bans lead ww, Oregon & Washington soon. By 2015, I am wagering the lead ww will be a relic in the USA & pretty tough to come by.
As far as stupidity, look to any state that covets union jobs or liberal Democrats in office. They all go under my stupid sign.[smilie=w:

[twotoescharlie]

where does lead come from??

TTC

[snsbpb]

TTC, I know they used to mine a LOT of lead here in missouri and I guess they still do. The Doe Run Company mined an area in south east missouri, called "the lead belt". Here is an article on wikipedia about it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doe_Run_Company

[jr81452]

Might be time for a little recon work. Follow the truck that cleans out the range. If it really does go to an old mine for disposal (highly suspect, but I've heard dumber things), report back. We will promptly form a liberation army to rescue said Pb from captivity.

[twotoescharlie]

If lead comes out of the earth, what's wrong with putting it back??

TTC

[lwknight]

They would be putting it back into a restricted waste disposal and it will never come back into circulation.

[finishman2000]

Only Kalifornia? Hardly. I believe NJ also bans lead ww, Oregon & Washington soon. By 2015, I am wagering the lead ww will be a relic in the USA & pretty tough to come by.
As far as stupidity, look to any state that covets union jobs or liberal Democrats in office. They all go under my stupid sign.[smilie=w:

I haven't heard anything about NJ. I still get half of my lead from NJ shops and haven't heard a word.

found this about a pending bill in NY
http://www.government-fleet.com/Channel/Maintenance/News/Story/2010/07/N-Y-Senate-Passes-Lead-Wheel-Weight-Ban.aspx

I have a friend of a friend to use to sell WW's and has half a 20' shipping container full of all different size and style of WW's. If they ban it I think I'll get a better deal.

[geargnasher]

If lead comes out of the earth, what's wrong with putting it back??

TTC

The argument is semantical at best, but lead comes from Galena, it has to be smelted from the mineral to be usable, as does just about any metal. Putting purified lead and lead alloys back into the ground is not the same thing as you're thinking, according to the way I understand it. In alkaline soil, lead quickly oxidizes on the surface and becomes stable for centuries without leaching into the ground water. In acidic soil, the lead can continue to corrode and slough off material into the surrounding enviroment.

I'm not arguing any kind of point, just spewing a few second-hand facts :mrgreen:

Gear

[ReloaderFred]

I would suggest to the original poster that he refer his acquaintance to the NSSF website: www.nssf.org. The National Shooting Sports Foundation, along with the EPA, have published books and guidelines for dealing with lead on both indoor and outdoor ranges, and they don't advocate taking it to Haz Mat facilities. Lead on, or from, a range is a recyclable metal, and as such can be legally and safely reclaimed.

The reason California gets so much blame is Prop. 57, which proclaimed lead a hazardous substance. It was the first, and most quoted, of all the claims about lead and it was based on hysteria, not science.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Papa Jack]

I had a friend who was a police officer here in our small town ( He was also my brother in law from my 1st exwife ). about 30 years ago I asked him what they did with the bullets out of the trap ? He asked if I wanted em, I jumped on that FAST ! He brought me a big bucket full of those flattened out wad cutters, but there was also target paper mixed in.
Just last spring I melted it all down and poured it into 1 lb ingots, I had a heck of a time separating the target paper. I tried blowing it out with a shop vac, but some of the flat wadcutters were light enough to blow too....
I finally just let em burn off in the pot, skimmed em away....
I have cast a couple bunches of pistol boolits from the reclaimed wadcutters, seem to shoot ok in the .38.... "Papa Jack "

[lastborn]

AAA+++ on what Fred said "Only Kalifornia? Hardly. I believe NJ also bans lead ww, Oregon & Washington soon. By 2015, I am wagering the lead ww will be a relic in the USA & pretty tough to come by.
As far as stupidity, look to any state that covets union jobs or liberal Democrats in office. They all go under my stupid sign."

[spqrzilla]

There is a lot of momentum behind increased onerous regulation of lead. Most recently, Congress adopted the CPSIA legislation that purported to regulate lead in children's toys but really resulted in so much expensive testing requirements to sell products intended for children that a lot of small toy makers, and small children's clothing manufacturers have gone out of business.

There will be more scare tactics used, and as a result you will see an organized assault on shooting sports related to lead in bullets.

[DLCTEX]

An acquaintance in Oklahoma recently completed a school to be an inspector for lead in houses built before 1968. Says all houses built before this date have to be inspected for lead before remodeling or even repainting inside or out. If lead is found it must be removed by a licensed lead abatement company. I searched for such requirements for Texas and drew a blank and then googled it and found some requirements for Oregon, but not much else. He said it is new federal rules set by EPA. I hope it is bull, but nothing surprises me anymore.

[a.squibload]

Congress adopted the CPSIA legislation...

I think that's the one that caused child-size dirt bikes to be put on hold, couldn't sell 'em for a while.
Kids might eat the valve stems or a couple other parts that have lead in 'em.
Never mind the jobs lost, or the kids not able to train on a suitable size bike.
EEEEEK! LEAD! Save the chuldrun!
There's a waiver or fix for that now, or being proposed? Check AMA or similar outfits for info.

[uscra112]

Anything with a soldered electrical connection got swept up in that CPSIA. Ya gotta use leadfree solder in every commercial product now. Just go through any electronics supplier's catalog. Ya can't buy anything but lead-free at Lowes or Home Despot either. Just gotta vent a bit here - I can't get creosote anymore. Can't buy oil-based paint in Ohio. Can't buy zinc chromate primer for aluminum. Can't get "tinners' fluid" (dilute hydrochloric acid) anymore. Just for starters. The bloody safety fairies won't be satisfied until we're all living in bubbles. [smilie=b:

[ammohead]

Tell the range master that by putting refined lead into the ground and not recycling back into the economy that they are contributing to global warming by requiring new lead to be smelted from ore (galena). And a terrible waste of energy.

Al Gore has been notified of this and he will be flying in to investigate in one of his private jets. Then Harry Reid will helicopter in for a photo op. Obama is going to create a waste of a recyclable mineral tax. And Pelosi is going to get another face lift. No connection to this event but never let a crisis go to waste.

We will soon find out that this whole mess can be cleaned up by introducing grey wolves to New Jersey also helping to aleviate the over population of deer in that state.

ammohead

[Marlin Junky]

The reason California gets so much blame is Prop. 57, which proclaimed lead a hazardous substance. It was the first, and most quoted, of all the claims about lead and it was based on hysteria, not science.

Hope this helps.

Fred

It all got started because morons raising babies didn't have enough sense to teach their progeny there are consequences to chewing on window sills and door jams. In other words, much like vermin, the moron babies ate the lead based paint and got sick. Yes, as usual, the stupid people ruined it for us all.

MJ

[a.squibload]

Enviros will have us wear only socks in the woods to avoid disturbing the ecosystem.
Safety fairies will then claim walking in the woods might get us a splinter, therefore
the FS will finally get their wish and lock up the woods so nobody gets in.

[desi23]

Yes, our wonderful government and the EPA are so determined to protect us from ourselves that they are trying to make all that nasty lead go away. For our own safety of course! Zinc and steel wheelweights to replace lead and the idiotic new requirements for people working on older houses are just part of the problems we face nowadays.

[Elkins45]

Anything with a soldered electrical connection got swept up in that CPSIA. Ya gotta use leadfree solder in every commercial product now. Just go through any electronics supplier's catalog. Ya can't buy anything but lead-free at Lowes or Home Despot either. Just gotta vent a bit here - I can't get creosote anymore. Can't buy oil-based paint in Ohio. Can't buy zinc chromate primer for aluminum. Can't get "tinners' fluid" (dilute hydrochloric acid) anymore. Just for starters. The bloody safety fairies won't be satisfied until we're all living in bubbles. [smilie=b:

Have you actually tried to USE the new lead free solder? The roll I bought was 100% tin and it SUCKED! I got so frustrated with it that I just twisted the connection together and wrapped it in electrical tape...that oughta be safe, right?

Well, at least it's lead free...

[Heavy lead]

Have you actually tried to USE the new lead free solder? The roll I bought was 100% tin and it SUCKED! I got so frustrated with it that I just twisted the connection together and wrapped it in electrical tape...that oughta be safe, right?

Well, at least it's lead free...
It does suck, get the OLD lead free soldier 95/5 (lead/antimony) that new "stinky stuff" does not flow worth a "stinky stuff". If you have a Menard's they'll have Oatey 95/5 as well as the new stuff. It works great for copper water lines, would think it would be fine for electrical wire as well. If it will flow good on a 1.5" diameter copper pipe joint it should work fine for that.

[lwknight]

Its getting harder to get but , Zinc-cloride is the best flux to solder copper with.
The water based pasty stuff is a pita.
Zinc cloride is NOT good for your lead pot.
Zinc cloride will destroy any pc circuit board. use it only for plumbing and copper wire.

[303Guy]

My goodness. I thought the US was an advanced nation! Can one still by sugar and sugar based candies over the shelf there? (I put it to y'all that more people die of sugar overdose than lead - including those that get shot by lead projectiles!):roll:

[Jech]

I live in Oregon so all this lead-ban stuff has me grimacing and my ears perked for any word one way or the other. In the interest of citing good information and not just parroting what "some guy" told me, here's what appears to be a decent article on the EPA petition.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/hunting-fishing/404554-epa-petitioned-total-firearms-lead-ban.html

Also, I figure I should say that I have no affiliation with the site I linked, not advertising etc, it's just something that was in some of the top results when I googled "lead ban in oregon".

~ Jech

[David2011]

Enviros will have us wear only socks in the woods to avoid disturbing the ecosystem.
Safety fairies will then claim walking in the woods might get us a splinter, therefore
the FS will finally get their wish and lock up the woods so nobody gets in.

Uh, Didn't the Clinton administration already do that? Seems they set up some national reserves so that only their privileged few could access the Federally (PUBLICLY) owned wilderness areas.

David

[a.squibload]

Yeah, look up the National Monument thing going on now, same restrictions as a national park
or wilderness area, no shooting, no mechanized travel, etc.
And they can just do it, no public input necessary.
Millions of acres at risk of being sequestered for the chosen few.

Speaking of mechanized travel, that would include mountain bicycles. Some of those guys are joining ranks with the 4-wheelers and dirt bikers, trying to keep all of us from getting locked out. 4-wheel drive is handy for hunting unless you have horses, also useful for emergency extraction of hikers, bikers, etc. (been there done that).

Oops, hijacked a lead thread...