"Struggling with a new mould"

[Dale53]

It has been one of the five or six hottest summers on record here in SW Ohio. Needless to say, it can create problems trying to cast bullets. However, I just picked up a new Lee Mould - a six cavity .45 ACP truncated cone (nominal weight of 230 grs with conventional lube groove). I badly wanted to try it out (no better than a little kid, am I :mrgreen:).

The humidity was supposed to be a bit lower this morning, so I hit the Utility Barn early (for me "early" is 8:00 A.M.:roll:). Last night I had cleaned the new mould with liquid hand soap and a toothbrush scrubbing really well.

I preheated the mould on my hotplate adjacent to the casting pot, while the pot was melting my bullet alloy. I actually started casting at about 9:00 P.M. I had turned my window air conditioner on when I started, when I finished the temperature was still a comfortable 75 degrees (even with the hot plate and RCBS lead pot).

I ran 19 lbs of finished bullets in under an hour. This is the best commercial mould I have used. It took probably a dozen casts before the wrinkles disappeared - pretty typical with breaking in a new mould. After the bullets started running well I had hardly anything but perfect bullets out of the mould.

The really neat thing is when I opened the mould the bullets just FELL out of the mould. Maybe 10% of the time, it required a very light tap on the hinge bolt of the handles. That is IT! It is amazing how a good running mould can speed up the process. The session was completely without aggravation. Just pure pleasure.

I saved one mould full of bullets to assess casting qualities between the cavities. They weighed + or - one grain. Pretty dern good for an off the shelf mould. The diameters were the same from cavity to cavity but were not perfectly round. They varied from .453-456 (as much as .003" out of round). Again, this is not bad for a off the shelf mould.

I have a good number of custom moulds. The last MiHec I measured was out of round .0002" (two tenths of a thousandth of an inch) and the individual cavities weights varied by no more than + or - two tenths of a grain (nearly unbelievable). So, the Lee will not match a Mihec mould (I know of no factory moulds that will) but I suspect it is "good enough". After sizing, the bullets look terrific.

Shooting these will prove the pudding but I am anticipating a good show at the range.

All in all, a very respectable showing and I wanted to share this with you. I still have a smile on my face at how nice this mould was to cast with. My "struggling" in the title of this post was just to get your attention - there was NO struggle whatsoever...

Dale53

[462]

We're so used to new moulds having hiccups and having to provide them with plenty of TLC, that it's a pleasant surprise when they work the way yours did. Kind of like the Casting God was being nice to you...or feeling sorry for you.

[Dale53]

We're so used to new moulds having hiccups and having to provide them with plenty of TLC, that it's a pleasant surprise when they work the way yours did. Kind of like the Casting God was being nice to you...or feeling sorry for you.

So true!! In fact, today was so good that I'm already planning to do it again tomorrow (in spite of the fact that it's going to be warmer)...:drinks:

Dale53

[RobS]

The title was catchy :D

The Lee molds that are currently being churned out appear to be of better quality. My dad bought himself a handful of Lee molds here in the last 7 months which have been pretty decent with bullets dropping freely from the mold and fairly round as well. Lee, I have heard, has refined their manufacturing process with mold production and maybe this is the ending result. Sure does beat the Lee molds of yesteryear that I started out with as they all needed the TLC Lee-menting at a minimum.

[geargnasher]

Good times!

The Lee moulds I've purchased and used recently have all been excellent excepting the 358-150-1R six-cavity which required setting the alignment pins back so the blocks would open with the handles. The two-bangers are all excellent lately, I purchased five different ones recently on sale and am batting 1000 on satisfaction! I used to hate the dadgum things but that's changing, especially since I hate UNDERSIZED more, and that's all I've gotten from Lyman in the last few years of production. Lee must be listening, because all their stuff is at or over advertized size even with high-temp casting and WW alloy.

Gear

[Dale53]

I ran another 20 lbs of finished bullets this morning. It was even better than yesterday. Since the mould was broken in, I pre-heated and the first cast was PERFECT! I'll bet I don't have to cull over two or three bullets from the entire 20 lbs.

I will mostly use these bullets in my 625's. I expect that they will just fall in when using full moon clips, for a super quick reload.

This bullet is very similar to the Hornady jacketed Truncated Cone bullet. In the past, when I was shooting IPSC, Hornady sponsored several of the big matches and furnished the required loaded factory ammo (thereby insuring an equal playing field). It was excellent stuff. It shot so well in my IPSC 1911's that it was scary good.

I suspect these will shoot just as well - we'll see.

If this mould is any indication, Lee has upped the ante considerably. Now, if they will just get some more good designs in the pipe line...

Dale53

[theperfessor]

Dale, glad to read of your experiences and +1 for your wish for the to broaden their product line. I wish they made a non-TL 452 -2R in a six cavity version. Seems like a lot of folks here have some problems with their 1R design. I have a pair of older two cavity Lyman 452374s that work fine but I'd much rather have one good aluminum six cavity.

[RobS]

I Agree on the Lee 2R 45 mold.................if only.............

[Dale53]

I would like to mention a couple of things.

1 - I would not EVER want to be without my hotplate next to my casting pot. I preheat ALL of my moulds, whether brass, aluminum, or iron. They are ready to cast right from the "get go". This is a MUST for me.

2 - Mike Venturino's tip regarding using a small Manicurists fan at the casting station is another MUST. Running 20 lbs of bullets in 45 minutes require that the bullet metal be hot enough to cast well but that the sprue solidifies quickly are two opposing matters. Using the fan, I just slide the mould from the bottom pour RCBS lead pot under the fan and the sprue solidifies in 2-3 seconds. The fan also maintains the proper heat of the mould blocks (won't allow the blocks to overheat). I maintain a continuous, steady, pace of casting.

The fan is a MUST along with the hotplate.

Oh, by the way, I saw a fan similar to mine for sale in the fan department of Walmart. It costs $6.00. Pretty small potatoes for such a useful accessory.

FWIW
Dale53

[Dale53]

Last evening after finishing lubing and sizing my bullets I loaded some. I put them in Ranch Products full moon clips.

This morning is was getting really hot even at 9:00 A.M. (we don't start shooting until after 9:00 A.M. out of respect for our neighbors). I wanted to compare the Lee 230 gr Truncated Cone bullet with my "standard" .45 ACP bullet - the MiHec clone of the H&G #68 200 gr SWC.

First of all, the SWC doesn't load well from Moon Clips. It is NOT a problem for general target work but you will NOT do a fast reload with them. The Lee TC bullet just FALLS into the cylinder chambers. It's almost as if they are "sucked in". They work as well as anything that I have used.

Now, for target work. My rest was somewhat less than perfect but it worked well. The MiHec bullet did it's usual 3/4" at 25 yards (5.1 grs of Dupont PB with a Winchester LP primer). The Lee bullet didn't shoot quite so well but was still excellent at 1 1/4". These were for six shots each.

I will continue to use the MiHec #68 bullet for general target work but for anything requiring a quick reload IDPA, self defense, etc the Lee bullet is clearly a superior choice.

I am really pleased with my new acquisition and will be shooting a good number of them in the weeks and months to come.

If the Lee 230 gr (nominal) TC bullet fills a need for you, you can buy in confidence.

FWIW
Dale53

[frankenfab]

Enjoyed reading your posts, Dale. I, too, rely totaly on my hot plate. It is one of those fancy laboratory ones with the aluminum top, that I snagged off ebay. It is not uncommon to get good boolits on the first cast.

My first and only Lee six banger is the 2R 230 45TL, and it blew me away. Doesnt take very long to get a coffee can full with that thing. I am with you guys on wanting a non-TL version of that mold. I want the TC in .45 and 10mm, too, badly!

I never heard of the manicurists fan, but I have always used a box fan on the floor blowing across my knees when I used to water drop. Sounds like the little fan might be better if you are dumping them out on a towel.

[Dale53]

frankenfab;
Thanks for the kind words.

I drop the bullets from the mould on a towel (good guess). I have a picuture of my casting set up. It was taken before I installed the manicurists fan (small 6-7" fan - $6.00 at Walmart or $7.00 for a similar one at Target) on the 2x4 horizontal support for the bench above my casting bench (just above the linotype ingot). It points down. After I fill the mould, I set it on my bench under the fan.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QASSRAPeregrine-Casting2-2006015-1.jpg

Dale53

[leadman]

Several months ago I wrote a letter to Mr. Lee about the quality of the molds being produce and what needed to be addressed. He replied to my e-mail and indicated changes would be made.
I'm not saying it was just because of my letter, undoubtly others did the same.

I too recently purchased another Lee 6 cavity and am very pleased with it. It filled out well and dropped bullets easily. This is the 45-300-RFN.
I have the Lee TC 6 cavities in the 40 and 9mm. Both are very good molds. That bullet design fills flawlessly and drops out of the mold easily.

Glad to hear of the improvements in Lee product quality.

[badgeredd]

Dale,

From your picture I assume you sit when you cast. Wish I could get the hang of doing that...I guess I'm a bit too antsy to get it right. Good posts on your mold experience.

Edd

[Dale53]

Edd;
Thanks for the kind words.

I DO cast while sitting. I have a bad back - standing while working aggravates it. Frankly, while I started out casting while standing I soon "graduated" to sitting.

Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

Marie was looking on as I rolled Dale's casting bench photo onto the screen. She remarked, "That looks like your casting area!" Very much so, though the seating differs--I use a workbench stool. It is also necessary for me to sit while casting, and I can't say I'm comfy with doing so--but ya do what ya gotta do to make boolits. I would say that anyone that gets COMPLETELY comfy around 700*-850* molten metal is riding for a fall, regardless of how you approach the furnace. 'Nuff said.

I haven't bought many Lee moulds over the past year--just two, both of then 2-bangers. They are both EXCELLENT. One is the same cavity as Dale's 6-cylinder model, the 230 TC for the 45 ACP, the other the 200 grain 30 caliber rifle design. Both are a joy to cast with.

I haven't fired any of the 30 caliber boolits yet, but used up the last of my Bullseye powder on a couple hundred 45 ACP reloads for my ancient S&W Model 645. 5.0 grains of BE, boolits seated with .020" of front driveband exposed, sized .452. These fed flawlessly, and shot 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" at 25 yards--which is about as well as the pistol and I can do with any load. (That's 10-shotters, BTW--2 mag loads of 5 each). I consider the Lee truncated cone autopistol designs among the best autopistol designs ever birthed for the caster. Seat them with standard powder weights for standard bullet weights, with .020" of front drive band exposed, and they feed in EVERY pistol I've tried them in--9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, and 45 ACP. They are at least as accurate as the prior best designs in all my pistols, and often exceed that standard. Best of all, the BIG drive bands grab tight-twist rifling A LOT better than the RN designs do in 9mm and 40 S&W.

[Mk42gunner]

Marie was looking on as I rolled Dale's casting bench photo onto the screen. She remarked, "That looks like your casting area!" Very much so, though the seating differs--I use a workbench stool. It is also necessary for me to sit while casting, and I can't say I'm comfy with doing so--but ya do what ya gotta do to make boolits. I would say that anyone that gets COMPLETELY comfy around 700*-850* molten metal is riding for a fall, regardless of how you approach the furnace. 'Nuff said.

I haven't bought many Lee moulds over the past year--just two, both of then 2-bangers. They are both EXCELLENT. One is the same cavity as Dale's 6-cylinder model, the 230 TC for the 45 ACP, the other the 200 grain 30 caliber rifle design. Both are a joy to cast with.

I haven't fired any of the 30 caliber boolits yet, but used up the last of my Bullseye powder on a couple hundred 45 ACP reloads for my ancient S&W Model 645. 5.0 grains of BE, boolits seated with .020" of front driveband exposed, sized .452. These fed flawlessly, and shot 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" at 25 yards--which is about as well as the pistol and I can do with any load. (That's 10-shotters, BTW--2 mag loads of 5 each). I consider the Lee truncated cone autopistol designs among the best autopistol designs ever birthed for the caster. Seat them with standard powder weights for standard bullet weights, with .020" of front drive band exposed, and they feed in EVERY pistol I've tried them in--9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, and 45 ACP. They are at least as accurate as the prior best designs in all my pistols, and often exceed that standard. Best of all, the BIG drive bands grab tight-twist rifling A LOT better than the RN designs do in 9mm and 40 S&W.

Dang Al,

I am going to have to start casting and loading from a sitting position, due to my back.

I was reading your post agreeing with most of it until you said your 645 was ancient; I remember when those came out, and it wasn't all that long ago. Late eighties as I recall.

Robert

[MtGun44]

Dale,

Just one additional comment on the Mihec molds. That superior quality is obtained with
molds where the two halves are machined SEPARATELY, not as a matched pair. Think about
that one time - if you look closely you can see that Mihec makes a pile of IDENTICAL
mold halves (Truly identical, or very, very nearly so) and then just assembles them.

That requires truly superior setup and machining accuracy. And a lot of confidence in
both. The size and location of each half cavity relative to each other and to the
alignment pin holes is so good that they just assemble and are true and round.

Wow. Anyone that isn't impressed by that, I suspect has never done much machining!

Another possibility - if you damaged a mold half - he could send you a HALF as a
replacement and it would work!

Bill

[Dale53]

Mtgun44;
My father was a tool maker (Jig and Fixture man) and I was trained as a machinist. I don't mind telling you that what Miha does today was not possible by ANYONE when I was learning. Fairly boggles the mind, it does!

Dale53

[MtGun44]

Dale,

Sorry to be late responding, been on vacation - actually driving (riding) across Nebraska
right now, headed for home. Aircards for a netbook are great!

I imagine that only a fraction of the users have any concept how far ahead of 20 yr old
machining processes that Miha is working. I have a couple mills and lathes and know
how to use them fairly well, but am still a rank amateur compared to a real machinist.
I have watched many REAL machinists, both hobbyists and pros.

It does give me a real appreciation for what a well fixtured CNC setup can produce. Getting
the fixturing right and REPEATABLE is a real key part of what Miha is doing. We are very
fortuate to have him as a resource.

Bill

[Dale53]

>>>We are very fortuate to have him as a resource.<<<

You can say that, AGAIN!

Dale53