FA 83 or 97?

[lefty_red]

I love the 41mag! Eventhought the Rugers I have shot it in let me down.

I have FINALLY saved up enough money to place an order for a FREEDOM ARMS in 41 mag. My intended use is to WOW the shooters at the range and my bunch of old friends on Sunday afternoons! No seriously, besides paper punching, its going to be my deer hunting handgun and informal metalic shooter (NOTE: I plan on a compatition handgun for real metalic shooting the Spring of next year)

Its going to be 7.5" barrel. I just like long barrels.

Now, I truelly loved shooting the heavy bullets in my Ruger BH, but if I get the 97 I can't due to the shorter cyclinder. But that is ok. I can live with shooting jacketed bullets in the 200gr range in it. But can the 97 take a heavy load? I've heard both ways. I figured the shortened cyclinder would limit the load. And is the 97 able to be carried with 5 in the chamber's? I've heard this both ways too.

I'm literally buying this weapon sight under seen or felt! So please, I need honest feedback.

Jerry

[ole 5 hole group]

I think the Model 97 will take whatever load you think you can handle. It's a light but strong compact revolver. You can carry the 97 with all chambers loaded. If you intend to shoot heavy loads the majority of the time, I would opt for the Model 83, just because it's about a pound heavier and will take up a lot of felt recoil compared to the 97. You'll be able to find heavy cast bullets for the 97 - they will either have a dual crimp groove or made specifically for the 97. I think Beartooth makes a 300 grain that should fit in the 97 if you want to go that heavy. The model 97 is a nice carry revolver and made to shoot sensible loads - stoke it up and it will bite ya.

If you elect to go the Model 83 route - also look at the BFR, as they are a high quality revolver for the dollar.

[lefty_red]

I was thinking that as well.

In my Ruger BH, I think it was Beartooth who sent me some 300 gr bullets I loaded up to Paco Kelly's recipe and it was a religious experiance! Got me hooked in big bullets and taught me how to handle the recoil.

I figured I could go up to 250 or close to that in the FA.

I've seen the BFR and they are done right! I might pick one up later used if I find them right, but the FA has always been tops in my mind. Custom right out of the shop.

Jerry

[dubber123]

Does BFR even make a .41? I've never seen one personally. Lefty, I wouldn't pay for the "extra" trigger job on the F/A. It amounts to bending the trigger return spring, something you can do yourself for alot less $$$.

[lefty_red]

I normally don't even touch non Ruger revolvers until I ran 200 rounds throught it after several hours pulling the trigger on snap caps. And from what I hear about FA, I doubt its a problem.

Jerry

[frankenfab]

Wait! Stop! I ordered a model 97 .41 Mag. Great gun, beautiful, came with a clover leaf test target, as only the premier grade guns come with a target last I knew.

I did not enjoy shooting the gun. Recoil with true or what I consider to be true .41 Magnum loads was not pleasant. I ordered a Model 83 with a trigger job ($60) and a 10" barrel, and I love that gun.

YMMV.

FRANK

[dubber123]

I normally don't even touch non Ruger revolvers until I ran 200 rounds throught it after several hours pulling the trigger on snap caps. And from what I hear about FA, I doubt its a problem.

Jerry

It depends on what you like for a trigger. If 4 pounds will do, you are correct, it will need nothing. I like my triggers significantly lighter, (F/A won't go below 3 pounds from the factory). I have 2 F/A's, and it IS a problem for me. Luckily, one that I can fix myself for free... :drinks:

[doghawg]

lefty red

The model 97 will handle SAAMI spec pressures but if your hands are like mine it will not be real pleasant to shoot with full house loads. My 97 in .44 special whacks my middle knuckle pretty good before I get near old Elmers loads....not a problem though because I didn't intend to make a .44 mag out of it.

The 97 is a compact and beautiful little gun IMO...well made and accurate. All my FA's have the factory 3 lb. trigger. Here's a Mod 97 and Mod 83 size comparison and the 97 in .44 special.

[lefty_red]

Wait! Stop! I ordered a model 97 .41 Mag. Great gun, beautiful, came with a clover leaf test target, as only the premier grade guns come with a target last I knew.

I did not enjoy shooting the gun. Recoil with true or what I consider to be true .41 Magnum loads was not pleasant. I ordered a Model 83 with a trigger job ($60) and a 10" barrel, and I love that gun.

YMMV.

FRANK

Frank, I'm not a "macho" man by any means, but I actually got a rush from shooting those 300gr slugs over 14 grs of Blue Dot! I found out how to allow the SA to recoil up. The 97 is at least the same weight as the BH. But I am giving the 83 with a 7.5" and sling mounted more thought. Thanks

Jerry

[lefty_red]

doghawg, thanks for the pictures! i really think i'm going with the 83.

Jerry

[Lloyd Smale]

I say go with the 97. 41 mags dont have enough recoil to be conserned with even with heavy loads. An 83 in 41 mag would be one heavy brute. Ive shot 300s at 1200 out of a 45 colt 97 and found it actually confortable. Not quite as good as a ruger bisley at that level but better then a blackhawk. Only downsided is like you stated you get limited to bullets selection if you want to run heavys because of overal lenght. that can be worked around though. Ive got a 3 screw ruger converted to 41 mag and its cylinder is about the same lenght and i shoot 250 lbt lfngcs out of it. I just crimp on the bullet nose and have never had a problem with bullet jump and its very accurate with them. You can also have veral or mountain molds make you a mold at about any weight with the crimp grove in the right spot. Most 235 class swcs will work in it as is and if you had one mold anound 250 youd be all set. Your not going to want a bullet much heavier then that as even in a long cylinder those really heavy bullet eat up powder space and are hard to stablilize and a 250 grain 41 at 1100 fps will punch through about anything. that all been said i dont have a 97 but want one. I have a couple 83s but if i was to get a 97 it would be in 44 special. to me in that platform a 44 special will do anything a 41 will and a guy can use about any bulllet and theres just so many more molds available in 44 cal.

[cptinjeff]

I say go with the 97. . Ive shot 300s at 1200 out of a 45 colt 97 and found it actually confortable. Not quite as good as a ruger bisley at that level but better then a blackhawk. l.


Funny you say that Lloyd. I just finished giving my middle finger and the web of my thumb the peroxide and then Neosporin treatment from shooting a similar load in my 97.:) I love it though. It was for years my go to woods load for deer and hogs. I only get evidence of the "bite" when I shoot 30 or more in one sitting. The other day I shot 100 265g @ 1250 ish and then 50 of the 300's. I'm shooting up old stock as my new fav is a 280 grainer from LBT.

To the OP. Lloyd gives some good advice. Just tell Veral what your goals are and what your shooting and he'll modify the mould to work just right. I also find the shorter nose to crimp somewhat annoying but not crippling. When I want to shoot something heavier or longer...I go with the Blackhawk. If I wanted to try endless varieties of loads I'd go with the 83, but if I wanted to find one or two great loads and shoot, shoot , shoot, I’d go with the 97 because it is much more portable (comfortable while carrying than the 83)

[Whitworth]

That's a beautiful revolver doghawg!

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'm pondering a very similar set of thoughts, but mine is in 44 Spl. I've decided on the 97 for a couple reasons:

1. It's just a tad smaller than a Colt, and that makes it just the right size in my mind. Mine is going to have a short barrel and is intended more for carrying often (but it will be shot a lot too...).

2. I've read the Freedom Arms manual (it's available on line at their site) and read the writing of a couple writers about it. All say that it's best to load 4 rounds, leaving an empty round under the hammer, but the writers also point out the automatic hammer-block safety on the 97 really doesn't mean this is true. Its more about liability reduction for those guys who inevitably have the hammer slip from their thumb while lowering the hammer on the loaded chamber... If the chamber is empty (as the factory asserts it should be) then no discharge, so no liability. I think the liability is with the person, not the firearm's design, and I'm always sure to have the muzzle point in a safe direction when I'm letting the hammer down. SO, I will have no qualms carrying all the chambers loaded.

3. I'd listen to/PM Frank from his post above (about 8 or so posts above). Sounds like when he shot the 97 with the loads like you want to shoot, he didn't like it. That could be a problem. Something to think about when you're plunkin down this much money for a gun sight unseen...

[doghawg]

That's a beautiful revolver doghawg!
Thanks! That .44 spl is my "walking in the woods" gun. It shoots several loads very well but I settled on the RCBS 225 gr. GC (232 gr. lubed and checked) at 1100 fps. That's no grizzly load but no pop gun either and it's comfortable to shoot IMO.

On the subject of comfortable to shoot.....There are people that shoot 300 gr. bullets out of 4 1/4" .45 Colt 97's at 1200 fps and they are not particularly bothered by the recoil. I've got fairly big mitts and much prefer the Mod 83 grip for a hard kicker. That's going to be an individual perception sort of thing.

[Art in Colorado]

I have a 83 in 41 Mag with a six inch barrel. Have had it for years. Serial # is 60.
For the purposes you stated and the longer barrel length I believe that is the way to go. It is a hunting hand gun supreme. I have loaded some pretty warm 265 grain Cast Performance bullets and I can tell you that recoil is fairly stout. Do not think it would be pleasent at all in a 97. Most accurate hand gun I have ever owened and there have been a few.

[WARD O]

I have two M97's in 44 special - a 4.25" with the rounded grip frame and a 6.5"(special length) with the standard grip. They are very accurate with MANY loads. I believe that the M97 is what you would end up with if you designed a traditional syled single aciton around the 44 special cartridge.

A couple of summers ago I scoped up the longer barrel and tested a bunch of different bullets and many combinations would do 1.5" at 25 yards or better (sometimes one ragged hole) and for me that is very good. I shot all the +P loadings suggested by the books and mags and it was hard to find anything that was disappointing. I did shoot bullets up to around 280 grains but did not test anything in 300 or heavier. Perhaps OAL could be an issue with the really heavy slugs.

At no time did I ever see evidence of an over pressure load - no flat primers, no sticky extraction, nothing. It is a great gun.

In retrospect, the only thing I think I'd change is to go with the standard grip frame rather than rounded butt - even though it is small I do notice it in my hand. On the plus side, the rounded corner is more comfortable riding on you side if you're using a close high ride holster.

Recoil was reasonable but I was using a shooting glove most of the time during my testing.

Mostly now I go with the 250 Keiths at just under 1,000 fps or kick them up a bit to the 1,200 fps area.

I believe these are among the last I'd ever let go of......

If they weren't so dang expensive I'd have a 45 Colt by now too!

Ward

[MakeMineA10mm]

I have two M97's in 44 special - a 4.25" with the rounded grip frame and a 6.5"(special length) with the standard grip. They are very accurate with MANY loads.

Mostly now I go with the 250 Keiths at just under 1,000 fps or kick them up a bit to the 1,200 fps area.

Ward

Ward,
That's the exact configuration I want. What grips and sights did you decide on?

You and I think a LOT alike as far as a load for it as well. What powder and charge do you use?

Could you post a picture of that beauty?? I really need a new desktop background... :mrgreen:

[WARD O]

MMA10mm

I hope you can eventually acquire a M97 for yourself - you will not be disappointed!

I ordered the black micarta grips on both but I am currently using some moose horn stag on the 6.5". I mentioned going with the standard grip frame vs the rounded but I am really somewhat undecided on that - some days I really like it and some days (when I'm not shooting it well) I maybe unrealisticly blame the grip. It surely is comfortable to carry though....

Both guns have the standard black ramp front sights and standard rear. With the 4.25" I also ordered the gold bead front and a complete extra rear sight with the v notch to match the gold bead. I seem to shoot the black sights slightly better than the gold bead but it sure does look good on the gun. Perhaps I should try using the gold bead with the square notch rear and see how that works......

For the milder loading:
The 250 SWC Keith with the old standard 7.5 gr of Unique really shoots very well but lately I have been using Brian Pearce's load of 8 grains of Power Pistol with excellant results in several 44 specials - as this load is published by the powder mfgr it does not appear to be of the +P nature. This PP load is fast becoming a favorite.
My component supplier had a quantity of VV N330 that he apparantly really wanted to get rid of so I've been using that with good results as well, it burns very clean. I've also played with Universal succesfully.

For the heavier loading:
2400 in the 16-17 area as listed in many magazine articles does a very good job and I happen to have a pretty good supply of 2400 on hand. I have been noticing more references to using HS-6 for a slightly faster load and am currently starting to play with that powder with this bullet in the 44 specials. I have had excellant success with HS-6 with 270 grain SWC's in Ruger Blackhawk 45 Colt loads as well as using it with +p loads in my 32 H&R mags - I think it is a good powder to have around. Time will tell. As far as 296/H110, I have used it with good results in the FA M97's but seem to prefer to reserve it for use in the 44 Mag.

There is also a new powder coming on the market from Alliant - 300MP - and it may have an application for +p loads here. It claims to up the velocity in magnum handguns. I shot some last weekend in my 44 mag and accuracy was excellant but I did not attempt to check velocity.

Perhaps I can get my daughter help me with a picture - I'm not very handy with that bit of technology yet.

Ward

[MakeMineA10mm]

Thank you, Ward. Great information there! I'm eagerly awaiting your daughter's pics of the 4.25 incher.

I like your idea of the gold bead. I was thinking of filing a couple small dovetails in a blank, black, ramp front sight and filling them with small gold inserts for an Elmer Keith style "bar sight." I actually really like the red-shaded laminate grips that come standard. I'll probably stick to that.

I'm also thinking of adding the sling-swivel on the bottom of the grip (only) for attaching a lanyard. I think that is a real useful aspect, especially in the field and on horseback.

[kgb]

My .41 Mag M97 has a 7.5" barrel and a rounded butt. No doubt about it, it kicks rounds out faster than they come out of a 6.5" S&W barrel and I believe they're quicker than out of a 7.5" Blackhawk barrel. When they're heavier loads, though, it's best for me to be wearing a shooting glove for the middle finger knuckle. 5 or 10 heavy loads and the knuckle is pretty tender.

When I bought mine I asked the folks at FA about the differences in the models and was told what you've already gotten in responses here---the M83 is a Ruger-sized gun that would be better for hunting and silhouette shooting. I already had a Blackhawk so I got the M97. There are bullets that won't fit in the M97 when seated normally, but the 250gr WFN from Cast Performance fits and works just fine. I've loaded some heavier bullets that aren't a good fit in the Ruger's cylinder but which do just fine in the S&W. I need to get some plug gauges as I believe the Ruger's cylinders are a bit tighter.

I'm thinking of sending my M97 back to have the barrel shortened to 4.5". It's pretty light with the 7.5" and with a 4.5" barrel might be pretty handy. Nobody seem to complain about their M97/4.5" combination either.

No regrets about getting a M97 over the M83, but if I didn't have the S&W and Ruger I think I'd rather have the larger FA.