Preparing for "winter"

[alamogunr]

I went to the range earlier this week. I'm beginning to suspect that there is something to this Global Warming thing. The temperature had to be 95°. This range is semi primitive and is located down in a hole surrounded by trees. Works good for containing the noise but doesn't let in a lot of breezes. I'm thinking that going to the range in winter might be more enjoyable. I don't hunt so I don't have clothing suitable for a lot of outdoor activity. I know, you folks that live in Northern climes think I'm a sissy but cold hands, feet and other body parts tend to take away from the enjoyment of shooting for me.

I'm going to start watching the sales for overalls/coveralls suitable for winter use here in Tennessee. Since I really don't know what to look for, I could use some advice. Remember, I'm in Tennessee not the UP of Michigan or Wyoming, etc. It may be that Long Johns and regular overalls or coveralls might be sufficient.

I'm not giving up on going in hot weather. Being retired, I can go on weekdays and have the whole place to myself. Last visit,while taking a water break, I observed a couple of young deer that hadn't lost their spots yet grazing on the range where I had been shooting 15 minutes before. May have to start taking a camera with me.

Lots of words to ask a simple question.

John
W.TN

[Munkeyjoe]

Being from the north, and living in the south now I would reccomend the following things:

LAYERS!!! Everything in layers so you can add or take off as you need and your work load dictates.

Fleece type sweater
long johns top and bottom
"ninja" suit (a silkwieght thermal type top and bottom)
and maybe a heavier "deer hunter" suit for just sitting around in.

Layered Silk, Thermals, fleece, and then clothes SHOULD be great for Just below to well below freezing.

Boots: go with a name brand thermal (thinsulate) boot. Bellview and danners are awesome.

And cloves: go with a thin :mechanics" or shooting glove and a set of old army trigger finger mittens. Use the TF when your cooler and then just have the thin gloves when your warmer.

And remember..... your rifle will perform different in warm and cold climates as well as before and after fireing....

[clodhopper]

Munkeyjoe, about has it covered but did not mention wool. All those silks, and synthetics sure can be warm but look like hell with just a little bit of hot embers, or liquid lead.

[Munkeyjoe]

Munkeyjoe, about has it covered but did not mention wool. All those silks, and synthetics sure can be warm but look like hell with just a little bit of hot embers, or liquid lead.

Indeed..... I missed wool! Very nice ESP for socks!!

[AZ-Stew]

Cabela's has an extensive line of Thinsulate garments. I highly recommend them. I have one of their down coats that feels like putting on a warm room when it's cold outside. I wore it at the 2010 Nevada Cast Boolit Shoot in Winnemucca, NV, the weekend before memorial day. It was windy and COLD! We got snowed on! Do a search for the thread about the shoot. Lots o' good pictures there. I wouldn't have survived that windy cold without the coat. I wish I had had a pair of Thinsulate trousers to go with it. The wind went right through my pants. I also have a pair of Cabela's Thinsulate gloves I wear when riding the ATV up in the high country in the fall. Keeps the wind off the fingers and hands stay warm.

Regards,

Stew

[waksupi]

As an ice fisherman, I have two words.

Ice Armor!
http://www.amazon.com/Clam%C2%AE-Armor%C2%99-Cold-Weather-Suit/dp/B001N84JAU

Good stuff.

[dualsport]

There's an expression, "Cotton kills". Doesn't make the cotton industry happy but it's true. Wet blue jeans or other cotton clothing is worse than useless in wet cold weather. I love my old wool clothes but the new synthetics perform pretty good when it's miserable. Surplus gear and thrift stores are a good source for winter clothes. Every now and then you can find a nice old Pendleton shirt made in the USA. Sportsman's Guide sells surplus wool pants from time to time, and some nice sweaters too. Military polypro long johns are priced right and keep you warm even when they're wet. The German army surplus raingear Sportsmans Guide sells isn't waterproof, I know. It's the stuff with the weird camo pattern. A good genuine issue M65 field coat with the liner has kept me warm and dry on rainy days at work. I bought two USN wool sweaters from SG and they were as new, American made, for about $15 each. Great sweaters, probably would retail for about $150 for an equivalent quality civilian version. I sure wish I still had my Pea Coat Uncle Sam gave me, not that it'd fit.

[MtGun44]

dualsport has a VERY important point.

COTTON KILLS. Use polyester Tshirts and long underwear, can be expensive but if you
look at campmor and REI and Cabelas sales on line you can get deals. Wool is great but
can be scratch and cause allergy to a minority. Thinsulate is great.

The issue with cotton is that sweat or other moisture totally destroys the ability
to provide warmth and cotton dries very slowly. Polyester dries quickly and
pulls the moisture away from the body.

Another critical point, made by an earlier poster - LAYERS. Also for me the single warmest
thing that you can easily carry in a pocket is a thin polyester knitted balaclava (head and neck
cover).

Light 100% polyester T shirts are cool in summer and warm as undershirts in winter, dry
FAR, FAR faster than cotton. Once again, avoid cotton. Jeans are kinda OK, but one of
the biggest ways to improve your OVERALL warmth is to get some wool (misurp is great
like in Cheaper than Dirt or other only online surplus outfits) pants. Another great warm
cheap set is the brown milsurp polyester long johns. Not fancy but durable and warm. There
are two weights, get the lighter. Polyester wicks away skin moisture and you feel much
warmer and drier than with cotton inner layer.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
+1 on the basic military gear. I have used the Poly undergarmet stuff for years. There probably is better High tech BIG BUCKS climb Everest equipment BUT for just sitting in a tree waiting on a corn cruncher up in Illinois in December the Army gear does just fine.
Good thinsulate boots and wool socks will do you alot of good.

[Bret4207]

I don;t get the impression you'll be far from civilization, by yourself in the deep boonies. So while cotton isn't the best choice for extended wilderness expeditions, I don;t think you'll be dying from hypothermia any time soon if you wear jeans.

Mil-Surp and wool are great, but often heavy. OTH they tend to last for decades. In your situation I'd consider them strongly. The high tech fibers and fleece are often wonderful products, but the less expensive and even some of the pricy stuff is made for show and not for go, or so my experience has been. So if you're going to lay out big bucks get the stuff that's made for rugged out door use.

From a practical standpoint it's pretty hard to beat rag wool socks, polypropylene long johns, Carhart (they come lined too) jeans and coat and a good heavy shirt or sweat shirt. Top it off with a Kromer Stormy hat (wool, ear flaps, brim) and you should be set. I've never found any gloves I can shoot in.

[alamogunr]

I don;t get the impression you'll be far from civilization, by yourself in the deep boonies. So while cotton isn't the best choice for extended wilderness expeditions, I don;t think you'll be dying from hypothermia any time soon if you wear jeans.

Mil-Surp and wool are great, but often heavy. OTH they tend to last for decades. In your situation I'd consider them strongly. The high tech fibers and fleece are often wonderful products, but the less expensive and even some of the pricy stuff is made for show and not for go, or so my experience has been. So if you're going to lay out big bucks get the stuff that's made for rugged out door use.

From a practical standpoint it's pretty hard to beat rag wool socks, polypropylene long johns, Carhart (they come lined too) jeans and coat and a good heavy shirt or sweat shirt. Top it off with a Kromer Stormy hat (wool, ear flaps, brim) and you should be set. I've never found any gloves I can shoot in.

Thanks for all the replies. No, I won't be far from civilization where I shoot. I just don't want to be uncomfortable. One aspect of uncomfortable would be thick clothing that won't allow me to move the way I want to. I'm going to look for gloves. As I've gotten older, my hands stay cold in winter as do my feet. Must be reduced circulation. The advice about layering is good because sometimes the temperature during the day can get downright balmy compared to many places and since my shooting is not dependent on a schedule, I can go when I want or stay home. If it looks like rain, I'll stay home.

Thanks again.

John
W.TN

[Wayne Smith]

One other thing - what ever you do or wear - stay dry! That includes sweating. My dad would be working in the woods cutting wood with snow on the ground in the dead of winter in Maine - down to a T-shirt, all the other layers taken off and on the tractor. When he rested he would gradually re-dress as he cooled down. If it is cold, don't let yourself sweat.

I moved to Tidewater, VA from New Hampshire, my best friend hunts in Wisconscin and grew up in Chicago. Last winter, on the coldest day of the year, we were at the range dressed so warm we didn't want to go into the heated building. We were the only ones who stayed outdoors the entire time we were at the range, about four or five hours.

[mold maker]

(Quote)
I went to the range earlier this week. I'm beginning to suspect that there is something to this Global Warming thing. The temperature had to be 95°. This range is semi primitive and is located down in a hole.
(Quote)

It's 9:00 AM and I have already been to the range. This is the time I would have normally hunted. The grass is still wet with dew, so boots are needed, but normal clothing is still comfortable. I didn't go to shoot, but picked up over 65 lbs of lead off the berms. It stormed Wed. night and uncovered lead everywhere. The soil washed from the berms has dried and the temps are still below 80. All in all a great trip.
Take advantage of the early morning cool for all outdoor activities, and a nap in the hot part of the day.
BTW
There were plenty of fresh deer tracks, and I saw 2 does as I left.

[alamogunr]

(Quote)
It's 9:00 AM and I have already been to the range. This is the time I would have normally hunted. The grass is still wet with dew, so boots are needed, but normal clothing is still comfortable. I didn't go to shoot, but picked up over 65 lbs of lead off the berms. It stormed Wed. night and uncovered lead everywhere. The soil washed from the berms has dried and the temps are still below 80. All in all a great trip.
Take advantage of the early morning cool for all outdoor activities, and a nap in the hot part of the day.
BTW
There were plenty of fresh deer tracks, and I saw 2 does as I left.

I didn't mention it, but I picked up about 50 lbs of "lead". I would estimate that over 5 lbs will be jackets when it is cleaned up. Very few shoot lead or reloads at this range. One of these days I'm going to borrow one of those magnets builders use to pick up nails and try to clean up all the steel cases that the mall ninja's leave lying around. That is not fair because I know some pretty nice fellows shoot a lot of steel case 7.62X39. Some of them probably pick up their cases.

Next time I will leave the house about 6:00 AM. That will put me at the range about 6:45. A couple of hours is all I want anyway unless I am developing a load. I haven't done that at the range yet but am considering building a mount for a press and a small box to shield the scale. I'm sure I can get some ideas by searching around this board.

As some of you have already guessed, it is too hot to do much of anything except putter around this computer.

John
W.TN

[MtGun44]

Cold hands and feet indicate you are losing too much overall. Add warm long johns and
wool pants and a good head and neck covering and your hands and feet will be far warmer.

Most people have lots on their torso, and leave their legs with one layer of jeans or
medium wool pants. The legs are huge muscles and need to have warmth at least
somewhere near what you have on your trunk. Imagine if you only had a layer of
jeans on your torso...
Bill

[onceabull]

alamogunner:Not all that many winters ago, I woke up on Jan 2. @ SIL's folks farm about 60 miles NE of Chattanoga.. 12 degrees F. and the home is on top of a ridge..No "volunteers" to go down in the creek bottom to measure the temp. there..Coon hunting cancelled....to be fair, three mornings later,woke up to 16 d.F,in suburbs of Tallahassee.. I'd be waiting for a better range day...!! Onceabull

[frankenfab]

preparing for winter=cutting firewood:mrgreen:

I have an East German military coat that I have never gotten cold in.

I have to admit that years ago I wore panty hose while hunting in extremely cold weather because I heard it really worked well, and it did. I think that the under-amour type products, spandex like fabrics, etc. probably work even better.

So, if I only could buy one thing on a budget to help me stay warmer, it would be a couple good sets of that type clothing. They're the technologically advanced long-johns, thermal underwear, or stockings.

[Munkeyjoe]

a poss helpful article on ECWCS
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=23498

Andfor the cold hand shooters.... trigger finger mits are the best..... wear a thin fingered glove (leather shooters or thin duty gloves) as a liner and TF as a over glove. IF REAL COLD used the "monkey feet" arctic mittens (see link above) as your over gloves

[alamogunr]

alamogunner:Not all that many winters ago, I woke up on Jan 2. @ SIL's folks farm about 60 miles NE of Chattanoga.. 12 degrees F. and the home is on top of a ridge..No "volunteers" to go down in the creek bottom to measure the temp. there..Coon hunting cancelled....to be fair, three mornings later,woke up to 16 d.F,in suburbs of Tallahassee.. I'd be waiting for a better range day...!! Onceabull

Those temperatures are unusual for this part of the country but they do occur. We had some single digits last winter. Lasted about a week. I'm just trying to be comfortable around the freezing mark. The advice about layering is good too since midday temps might get up to mid 40's. Also I'm in West Tennessee about 40 mi from the Mississippi river. I haven't spent a winter in East Tennessee since graduating from UT Knoxville and that was many, many years ago.

John
W.TN

[Lloyd Smale]

I live in the up of mich. It gets COLD here. I worked outside in it as a lineman for 30 years. If your actually doing something out in it layering is the trick. Tell you what we used and it worked great was just carharts. Get yourself a heavy carhart insulated jacket and a fleese lined carhart vest and a pair of insulated carhart bibs. You can either were just pants and a flannel shirt under them or add long johns if its really cold. Carharts are suprisingly warm, ive even used them for snowmobiling if really cold weather and the only downside is they soak up water but you wont have much or any snow so thats not a consern. When im just sitting in the cold or hunting i prefer wool as its even warmer and being wet doesnt effect it near as much. Another cool thing about carharts is they wear like iron. Only downside for them for hunting is they dont come in colars that youd feel safe in the woods with. Just look around the country at guys that really work in the cold and youll see that just about to the man they wear carharts.

[Heavy lead]

I live in the up of mich. It gets COLD here. I worked outside in it as a lineman for 30 years. If your actually doing something out in it layering is the trick. Tell you what we used and it worked great was just carharts. Get yourself a heavy carhart insulated jacket and a fleese lined carhart vest and a pair of insulated carhart bibs. You can either were just pants and a flannel shirt under them or add long johns if its really cold. Carharts are suprisingly warm, ive even used them for snowmobiling if really cold weather and the only downside is they soak up water but you wont have much or any snow so thats not a consern. When im just sitting in the cold or hunting i prefer wool as its even warmer and being wet doesnt effect it near as much. Another cool thing about carharts is they wear like iron. Only downside for them for hunting is they dont come in colars that youd feel safe in the woods with. Just look around the country at guys that really work in the cold and youll see that just about to the man they wear carharts.

Amen Lloyd, I may just be a troll, but it can get colder than hell downstate too, grew up on a farm, then spent the next 20 roughing in homes, setting rooftops and whatever else in the winter, worked through it all, never was without wool socks, tall rubber boots (not cheap ones, if they don't cost close to at leas 80 bucks at least they are worthless IMO) and the Carhart bibs, usually with a hoody under, a Carhart hoody too, over coat if I needed it, you can take it off and as you get busting a nut you'll need to.
Don't know which is worse, 20 below and dry, or 20 above with a breeze blowing off lake michigan, it can't compare with the up, but it can get nasty.
My Carhartts (I've got insulated and unisulated ones too) are covered with soldier, blood, silicone, burns from torches, nail holes and whatever else, and still are fine.

[ricksplace]

A few have mentioned this already, but I want to emphasize the need for good headwear. Where I live, we get -40 to +40C. A wool hat that covers down over the ears and the back of the neck (trapper style) is good. I have been a downhill skier for 50 years. Skiers often say "If your feet are cold, put your hat on".

[alamogunr]

Responding to Lloyd Smale and Heavy Lead. After graduation, I worked in Lansing, Michigan for a few years. For an ole' country boy from the South it was a real change. Snow from October until May and many weeks of low temperatures. Agreed, it wasn't as bad as the UP and over next to Lake Michigan, but I thought I had moved to the North Pole.

That was 45 years ago. All my really cold weather clothes are gone and I have not kept up with developments in cold weather clothing. I thank all for the recommendations. The comments about Carhartt are appreciated.

John
W.TN

[sundog]

I'll second Lloyd on the Carhart products. I do the range quite often in winter months, including military bolt matches in very cold and sometimes snowy/icy conditions. You can put them on when you get there, take them off before you leave, and stay comfortable while you are shooting. I also have an 'Elmer Fudd" hat with the pull down fleecy ear flaps, a hood for the winter weight coveralls (I prefer the one piece cover, but either it or the 3-piece suit are good). Comfortable boots and wool socks are great. I like hunting gloves with half fingers and pull over mitten top which allow for sticking your trigger finger out. I am intimately familiar with all the military gear, and if I were living in the field would opt for it. But, in and out doing chores and range trips, it is hard to beat the Carharts.

[izzyjoe]

has anybody tried underarmour cold gear. just wondering i've heard good things about it. and it don't get any better than carharts. my wife bought me some work bibs and the coat 7 christmas ago, i love them. before that i used to wear those big smith coverals, or whatever brand i could aford. but about 2 maybe 3 winter and they were trash. them things are cold to, not much insulation in there. and good boots are a must. went hunting my first time in cowboy boots, let just say that was very unpleasant. but i was 11yrs. old, and have learned alot since then.

[thx997303]

Heck, I went hunting the first time wearing a pair of vietnam issue jungle boots.

I'm surprised I didn't lose a toe.

And I have never found the military polypro to be worth a darn. They didn't keep me warm in Texas.

Honestly good wool has always worked better for me.

I have an old pea coat from the navy. That is one warm son of a gun.

[tonyjones]

Layering is an excellent suggestion. You can also layer your thermal underwear. I frequently wear two layers: one light or midweight layer with one heavy or expedition weight layer. Do not forget sock and glove liners.
For the bargain hunters among us check out SierraTradingPost.com. They sell overstocks, discontinued items and seconds for 35% to 70% off retail prices and they carry a good selection of outdoor related gear and clothing. Who cares if your Carhartts have a minor blemish if you got them for half price? Sign up for their email alerts and you will sometimes get an additional 20% to 35% off.
Regards,
Tony

[flounderman]

the polyester t-shirt is a good start unless it is really cold. then the government poly two piece suit of underwear is hard to beat. a good stocking cap and in extreme cold, mittens are warmer than gloves. the sorel pac-boot with the removable felt lining will keep your feet warm. a hooded sweat shirt with a jacket to throw on over it if you get cold will usually work. if you are moving around, you don't need as much as when you are sitting. you don't have to spend a lot for hitech. the poly government cold weather two piece underwear suit from surplus and any of the boots with the thick felt removable liners will do it. just remove the liners and dry them when you get home.

[NoDakJak]

Loyd certainly hit the nail on the head. Layers, wool and the miracle fibers second. Up eere in North Dakota, Carhart is King. I prefer the insulated bib overalls and hooded parka. They work great along with Military surplus Mukluks and Snowshoes for Fox and Coyote hunting. My knees have gone to heck but the Carharts are still are boss in this area. My wife knit me a wool stocking cap that is fantastic when sitting on a stand. Most of your body heat is lost through your head and neck and it is very important to protect them. This cap is extremely effective when sitting on a stand for waterfowl or varmints but is just too darned effective when actively pursuivingly varmints. When you have sweat running down your face at twenty below zero you have problems. Hope this info helps Neil

[redneckdan]

I live in the up of mich. It gets COLD here. I worked outside in it as a lineman for 30 years. If your actually doing something out in it layering is the trick. Tell you what we used and it worked great was just carharts.

Step into my office and I'll expound a bit.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v67/5/108/6604350/n6604350_30689150_6183.jpg

I found carharts to be good when you don't have to move around a lot. When I started as a snow maker several years ago I wore carharts. They got wet, weighed a ton even when dry and generally sucked for a job requiring about 5000 feet of vertical gain on foot per 10 hour shift. I even skiied in carhartts for a couple years...and a snowmobile helmet.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v63/5/108/6604350/n6604350_30578713_73.jpg

Lloyd is spot on about layering. One minute Ill be armpit deep in a pit unburing someones stupid moment and the next I'll be on a snowmobile running to an injury call (also a ski patroller). Honestly, for the temperatures you are talking about I am happy in jeans, a t-shirt and a filson mackinaw. You should be fine with a good base layer and say fleece lined jeans and a fleece pullover. Being as your range is down in a hole wind should not be too bad. Bring extra cloths until you get an idea of what you need.

After living out side for about 10 hours a day in the winter for the last 6 years or so this it what I have stuck with for the last couple years.

(I'm at the handles)

http://www.juskuz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ripleyNight-6.jpg

Merino wool base layer- Minus33 designs, great stuff and not all that expensive. Light weight to expendition weight depending on conditions.
Gortex pants for wind and water resistance.
Good quality wool socks.
Either light weight cashmire or medium weight wool sweater.
Gortex Jacket

Wearing this get up I have worked comfortably down to -20F with the addition of a face mask and substituting a heavy wight sweater.

I 2nd the idea of hitting up the resale shops. I have some really nice wool dress sweaters that Jen has found for practically a steal. They work great and if i happen to absolutely destroy one of them i may cry in my beer a bit but won't go broke replacing it.

[Heavy lead]

Responding to Lloyd Smale and Heavy Lead. After graduation, I worked in Lansing, Michigan for a few years. For an ole' country boy from the South it was a real change. Snow from October until May and many weeks of low temperatures. Agreed, it wasn't as bad as the UP and over next to Lake Michigan, but I thought I had moved to the North Pole.

That was 45 years ago. All my really cold weather clothes are gone and I have not kept up with developments in cold weather clothing. I thank all for the recommendations. The comments about Carhartt are appreciated.

John
W.TN

Alamogunr,
Lansing, although in the middle can be a cold, damn cold, I spend one winter there working, and while not as damp as being within a couple miles of Lake Michigan, I found it much colder that the Kalamazoo area where I'm from. Betcher glad your back in Tennessee, eh.
Myself, at 44, I'm glad my outdoor work is over. I've got a nice cushy office job now and only play outdoors. But there's still snow to remove from the driveway and roof, so them Carhartt's still get used.

[SciFiJim]

One aspect of uncomfortable would be thick clothing that won't allow me to move the way I want to. I'm going to look for gloves. As I've gotten older, my hands stay cold in winter as do my feet. Must be reduced circulation.

The thing that I would add is as you build the layers, remember that they add bulk and increase the size of the next layer accordingly. Nothing cuts off the circulation to your feet like squeezing into regular size pants while wearing additional layers. Roomy is better.

[alamogunr]

One thing I have lots of is pants that are too big. In the first couple of years I was retired, I lost about 40 lbs. More active and ate better. I haven't thrown away all the big clothes since I wasn't sure the weight would stay off . So far it has.
John
W.TN

[SciFiJim]

So far it has.
A good position to be in.

[Wayne Smith]

One thing I have lots of is pants that are too big. In the first couple of years I was retired, I lost about 40 lbs. More active and ate better. I haven't thrown away all the big clothes since I wasn't sure the weight would stay off . So far it has.
John
W.TN

Layering should be easy for you! I use long johns, undershirt, wool shirt, blue jeans, and a combination jacket/coat that is very warm and flexible. Good gloves/mits are essential.