Old rusty rifle still shoots!

[geargnasher]

My Dad gave me his old Savage 219 30-30/16 gauge a few days ago, said it had ruined in storage. The 30-30 bore was pitted when he bought it at an army surplus store in the late '60s and 15 years in storage with a mouse nest in the scabbard didn't do it any good either. When I got it from him, the bore was growing orange fur, and the mouse pee ruined what was left of the bluing on the top of the barrel and receiver.

I endeavored to save the old gun, cleaning up the bore, chamber, and getting the rust under control. This evening I took it out to the range and put some lead through it just to see if there was any hope at all for the cratered old barrel. I was using "light" loads of 748 behind some 311041s, a load that shoots wonderfully in my Marlin, and I hit every can, gong, and rock I shot with this gun! I intended to shoot a half-dozen or so to see if it would blow up or not, figured I'd shovel the lead out of the barrel and make it a wall hanger when I got home, but instead I actually made up a target to see just how well it really was shooting. I put three in 3/4" at 50 yards with the buckhorn sights, fading light, and only using my ammo bag as a rest! I quit right there and went home!

Now somebody explain to me how this is possible? I have had good guns with excellent bores that were a fight to make shoot cast, lots of tweaking and hair pulling, but this one just went straight to work, and shouldn't have. I'm ecstatic, and a bit flummoxed at the same time. I checked the bore when I got home, almost zero leading after 30 shots, and that pushed out with a tight patch and some Ed's.

Gear

[qajaq59]

Half of the expanation is that it's a 30-30. That caliber is just short of magic. The other half is that it probably shot even better before the mouse lived in it. :bigsmyl2:

[missionary5155]

Good morning
And every now and then God Blesses us with something that means alot more than we can ever buy.

[Bret4207]

The 219 had a pretty good rep. Savage always did make a good barrel. The rest is just the luck of good boolit fit and a load that the gun happens to like.

Good on you, I always wanted a 219 just like yours, without the rust!

[MtGun44]

good caliber, good load, good boolit, good shooter.

Good results. :bigsmyl2:

Pitted bores, as long as they aren't just worn out to nothing (and many are not)
will often shoot a whole lot better than they look.

Bill

[jlchucker]

good caliber, good load, good boolit, good shooter.

Good results. :bigsmyl2:

Pitted bores, as long as they aren't just worn out to nothing (and many are not)
will often shoot a whole lot better than they look.

Bill

Bill, that just about sums it all up.

[qajaq59]

Sounds like it really made you day geargnasher?

[geargnasher]

You bet it did. Thanks for the kind words everyone, this beat-up old rifle really suprised me. The rifling is good, as is the throat and (surprisingly) the crown, so that helps.

Now, on to see how the shotgun barrel does.

I keep hearing that Savage offered this gun with a .22 Hornet barrel, does anyone know for sure if that was true for the 219? There is no "A, B, etc." designation, just 219. The 16-gauge barrel says "220", again sans any letters.

Gear

[armoredman]

Sounds like it was a wonderful time, and a new family hierloom in the making. :)

[Bret4207]

You bet it did. Thanks for the kind words everyone, this beat-up old rifle really suprised me. The rifling is good, as is the throat and (surprisingly) the crown, so that helps.

Now, on to see how the shotgun barrel does.

I keep hearing that Savage offered this gun with a .22 Hornet barrel, does anyone know for sure if that was true for the 219? There is no "A, B, etc." designation, just 219. The 16-gauge barrel says "220", again sans any letters.

Gear

That's my recollection- Hornet, 30-30, shotgun in 12, 16 and 20 IIRC. I don't think they offered any other CF rifle choices, but my rememberer ain't so good anymore.:groner:

[303Guy]

I have a theory that a certain degree of rust in a bore is a prerequisite for accuracy! It's interesting that the bore did not need some form of fire-lapping to remove the sharp pit edges that might've scraped lead. I get the impression that the 30-30 is the cast boolit cartridge. Take note of the alloy you used, just in case the gun is alloy sensitive!

I have two rust 'textured' but otherwise mint bored 303 Lee Enfields that I am now encouraged to try with plain cast!:grin: I wonder how a 303-30 would work? Mmmm...

[Trey45]

You have discovered the rifle worlds best kept accuracy secret, mouse pee.

[geargnasher]

303Guy, as part of cleaning the bore I went ahead and gave it 100 quick strokes with a tight patch and 400-grit Clover compound, then steel wool, then a nylon brush with a LOT of Ed's Red, flushed with brake cleaner and ran a patch lightly touched with Bullplate through it before shooting. The Bullplate patch is my standard procedure for shooting lead through a stripped-clean barrel, I want something in those pores before it sees an unlubed boolit nose. This makes the first shot high just about every time, so I don't store guns this way, but it's good lube for "break in" with cast.

Oh, and Trey, I'm going to start collecting pee from our little pet mouse and see if I can add some to my next batch of Felix lube, might be good for clearing the firing line if not for accuracy :kidding:

Gear

[Pat I.]

I picked up an old 94 a few years back that had a pretty rough bore. I didn't have a mould for it so bought some Laser Cast .380 bullets and and loaded them up with 11 grains of Unique. After running the loaded round back into the sizer after removing the decapper so I could chamber the round the thing shot great. Hard bullets, low velocity, rough bore, squeezing the bullet down through a tapered neck, all the things that aren't supposed to work. No rhyme or reason to things like this that I can figure out so just enjoy it.

[Mk42gunner]

My rememberer isn't working so good today, but it seems like Savage had four or five rifle chamberings in the 219. As to why it shoots so good for you; these where made to be working guns, and nobody told them about days off, retirement, etc.

Reading about yours makes me think I should ave bought the one I saw in a gunshop in the early 80's for I think $65.00. Seems like the 30-30 barrel was 26", and the 16 ga was 28".

Of course, hindsight being what it is, I should have bought a truck load of the Savage combo guns for around $100.00, the last one I saw sell at an auction went for $485.00.

Robert

[mroliver77]

Sounds like a good candidate for a Krylon camo job and off to the woods. Just think of the different combination of shells you could load it with. Like a 170gr 30/30, one 20g slug and one 20 gauge 6 shot. Or a 210gr 30/30, a 20ga slug and a 20ga 00 buck. Or a......
Jay

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

geargnasher;
My 219 is a 25-20, had a 16ga barrel with it.
They were originally a 5 piece set, action, 2 barrels (all I've seen were 16 ga) and 2 forends, rifle and shotgun.
All 5 pieces had a number stamped on them, not a serial number, I guess you'd call it a "set number". Mine has 35KA stamped on it.
If your shotgun barrel has mod 220 on it it is not original to that action. Same gun but only in shotgun, they were 410 thru 12 ga.
Still a great find, enjoy.
Nick

[geargnasher]

geargnasher;
My 219 is a 25-20, had a 16ga barrel with it.
They were originally a 5 piece set, action, 2 barrels (all I've seen were 16 ga) and 2 forends, rifle and shotgun.
All 5 pieces had a number stamped on them, not a serial number, I guess you'd call it a "set number". Mine has 35KA stamped on it.
If your shotgun barrel has mod 220 on it it is not original to that action. Same gun but only in shotgun, they were 410 thru 12 ga.
Still a great find, enjoy.
Nick

Ahh, thanks for the input. I figured the 16 ga. barrel was from a different set, but Dad bought it from the surplus store that way. I have both forends, and everything seems to fit. Even have the "original" canvas spare barrel cover (machine gun spare barrel case, courtesy of U.S. taxpayers!).

I was thinking a .45 Colt or .45-70 Gov't barrel would be really neat, but I have no idea how I would go about having one made, unless I could get a 220 barrel in .410 and have it bored out and lined.

Gear

[Bret4207]

Curiosity got the best of me so i went and got my copy of Phil Sharpes "The Rifle in America". For you youngsters, Phil Sharpe was right up there with Townsend Whelen and Elmer Keith back in the day. His book is an encyclopedic tome printed in 1938. Anyway, he says the 219/220 (I didn/t know there were two designations either) came in 25/20, 30-30, 12, 16 and 20 ga. They must have added the Hornet after the book went to press in 38 or 39.

[ARKANSAS PACKRAT]

geargnasher;
I'm looking for a 220 20ga barrel to make a hornet barrel. I found a ,410 barrel with tenite forend, it did not fit my action. I worked on it and with carefull filing and stoning I got it to lock up tight. 50 brass shells and I'm good to go!
The liner for a .410 bore would be long and skinny for sure!
Nick

[.30/30 Guy]

I have a Savage 219 in .30/30. I have not shot it as much as I would like to.

The only thing that I have shot from it is cast.

I found a target that I shot at 100 yards. 2 1/8" five shot group with four in 1".

[Urny]

A few months before I took my discharge from the Army in June of 1968, I attended a gunshow that was held in tents somewhere around Fort Hood. I bought a Model 219 in .22 Hornet for $40.00, used of course. I can testify only to that one in Hornet. It had a very light trigger (we called them hair triggers in those days). I carried it when going into the Sierra Nevada for my mind repair outings in those days, and regret to this day selling it. It was a very nice rifle.

Come to think of it, I sold it about the time I married the first one. Two mistakes cut from the same sheet of rusty iron.

[geargnasher]

Curiosity got the best of me so i went and got my copy of Phil Sharpes "The Rifle in America". For you youngsters, Phil Sharpe was right up there with Townsend Whelen and Elmer Keith back in the day. His book is an encyclopedic tome printed in 1938. Anyway, he says the 219/220 (I didn/t know there were two designations either) came in 25/20, 30-30, 12, 16 and 20 ga. They must have added the Hornet after the book went to press in 38 or 39.

So this rifle is probably a mid '30s vintage? I wish it could talk.

Urney, do you remember if that .22 hornet was a 219A or B?

Gear

[qajaq59]

So this rifle is probably a mid '30s vintage? I wish it could talk. If it could talk, I'd bet it would tell you that times were tough and someone used it so they could put food on the table.

[Urny]

So this rifle is probably a mid '30s vintage? I wish it could talk.

Urney, do you remember if that .22 hornet was a 219A or B?

Gear

I don't remember an A or B designation, but I do remember a warm golden walnut stock, a steel receiver, a trigger that didn't look like the stamped trigger's seen on most of the 219's encountered at gun shows, and a barrel that was not grooved for a tip-off scope mount. I'd love to have it back.

[geargnasher]

Thanks for the reply, Urny. I'll enjoy mine enough for the both of us! This one has a real trigger and no scope provision, either.

I took it to the local range yesterday (the one I'm NOT boycotting for their brass policy) and fired it side-by-side with my Marlin 336 at 100 yards. The 336 has target sights and I can still keep it inside three inches for two consecutive ten-shot groups. The old Savage has awful buckhorn/bead sights good for about 50 yards max with my skills, but I shot one four-inch group and one five inch group, not bad considering the front bead was just a hair smaller than the 8x11" target. Funny thing is four shots in one target made a cloverleaf in the center of the group, and the other target had an1-1/2" cluster in the middle. Man I wish I could see like I used to, might have a sub-moa antique here. I think a 4x Weaver scope would look good on this gun, think I'll talk to my local 'smith about a d/t job. But then I'd have to do something about the rusty receiver and barrel, then I'd have to carve, finish, and of course chequer some new stocks, get a nice Pachmayer recoil pad, do a trigger job.......OR I could leave it as the 50-yard meatgetter it was intended to be, the kind used by men who still knew how to stalk a deer on foot to within that range while wearing plaid and smoking a cigarette.

Gear