LLA coming off of boolit.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I have pulled some of my boolits that I put the 45-45-10 lube on. When pulled, I see very little lube left on the driving bands. The vast majority is gone. Am I doing something wrong? I let them dry overnight and they don't feel tacky. I usually lube them twice.

[mold maker]

It got pushed to the "lube groves" when seated and crimped. If not you would have a hard time keeping the boolit in, or sticking out of the case.
Before second guessing yourself, fire a few and check the results.

[HeavyMetal]

You now know why I detest LLA in any form!

I think someone is sending you some pan lube stuff to try out. I also think once you try some of the silghtly harder lubes you will never go back to LLA!

I honestly think pan lubing is as fast as LLA considering drying time plus you get to try a selection of lubes to see what does and doesn't work for you.

Let us know what you find out.

[mpmarty]

You now know why I detest LLA in any form!

I think someone is sending you some pan lube stuff to try out. I also think once you try some of the silghtly harder lubes you will never go back to LLA!

I honestly think pan lubing is as fast as LLA considering drying time plus you get to try a selection of lubes to see what does and doesn't work for you.

Let us know what you find out.

I've got a Star and a Lyman that I quit using when I found LLA.
comparing speed of processing to include "drying time" is like saying a dishwasher is too slow as you have to wait for the thing to get done.

I've almost always got a few hundred boolits sitting out in the sun on waxed paper. I use a 50/50 mix of LLA and JPW without any thinner at all. Works great in all my guns.[smilie=w:

[44man]

When someone want's cheap loads for a .38 or such, I use LLA to save the Felix or Lar's lubes I use on my own!
Even those TL Lee boolits work 1000% better with a good lube.

[jonk]

While LLA is aesthetically unappealing, except in my very longest rifles, I've never found it performed any better or worse than any other lube for most applications.

Now when you get into the most demanding of uses, then I find that Felix lube does indeed work better, along with Lars, Carnuba Red, etc.

In general, if I'm shooting ACWW at under 1800 fps, which is 90% of my shooting, LLA is fine. If I'm shooting oven hardened alloy blend with linotype at over 2100 fps, then I'll go with something better.

Not that I always use the Lee stuff. Depends on my fancy at the moment.

[Doby45]

I can't stand the smoke of the LLA. I tried it once and immediately went to pan lube, but now that I have my Star there is NO looking back. But for small "batches" of test rounds or odd sizes, I will always fall back on pan lubing.

[MtGun44]

My mother taught me "If you can't say something nice. . . . ."

SO -----


Bye

Bill

[pdawg_shooter]

I've got a Star and a Lyman that I quit using when I found LLA.
comparing speed of processing to include "drying time" is like saying a dishwasher is too slow as you have to wait for the thing to get done.

I've almost always got a few hundred boolits sitting out in the sun on waxed paper. I use a 50/50 mix of LLA and JPW without any thinner at all. Works great in all my guns.[smilie=w:

+1 on the 50/50 mix.

[dragonrider]

""If you can't say something nice. . . . ."
My Mom taught me to tell it like it is, and LLa is the nastiest, foulest smelling, dirtiest, die clogging **** you can put on a boolit. I just can't imagine the stench when blending it with JPW, the second foulest smelling product ever produced. I used LLa when it was first introduced and I thought it was going to be the wonder of the age. Wrong. I have used LLa, I have pan lubed, hand lubed, I have a lyman Lube/sizer and a Star. There is no simpler, cleaner or faster way to lube boolits than useing a Star. JMO

[chris in va]

My Mom taught me to tell it like it is, and LLa is the nastiest, foulest smelling, dirtiest, die clogging **** you can put on a boolit.

That about sums it up. My dies literally pull my boolit back out of the case when seating if I don't clean it out every 100 rounds. I tried going to an indoor range once, smoke was so thick I had to quit after 50 shots. Their ventilation consisted of a small fan clamped to the stall.

But it's uber cheap and it's all I can afford right now.

[armoredman]

OK, I must be the throwback, then. I coudn't get the pan lubing thing, but LLA seems to work wonders for me. I use it lightly and straight, though, didn't know I was committing a mortal sin. :D

[Doby45]

Well now ya do.. So stop it or you will go blind and hair will grow on your palms.

[thx997303]

Blind? Hair?

I mix mine. Works well and doesn't plug the seater die.

[snuffy]

Interesting how quickly this became a pi$$ing match about how much people hate LLA. The first answer was the correct one, NO LUBE STAYS ON THE DRIVING BANDS WHEN THE BOOLIT IS SEATED! Standard lubrisizers only put lube in the lube grooves. Which is where it belongs. Sure, a film of lube is coated onto the driving bands, but it's hard to see, and doesn't stay there.

I guess an understanding of how lube grooves and the lube in them works. My understanding of how the lube works is; the acceleration of the boolit causes the lube to slide against the bottom of the lube groove, where it is forced against the rifling by inertia. It spreads out to provide a film of lube to ease the sliding of the bare lead driving bands through the barrel. It also acts as a seal for hot powder gasses. Therefore, it doesn't need to exist on the driving bands. Centrifugal force also tends to sling the lube outward from the center of the boolit mass. It doesn't become a factor until the boolit has accelerated to near muzzle velocity, somewhere about half way down the barrel.

As for how I feel about LLA, I like it and use it a lot. I actually like the smell of alox. I also use NRA formula alox/bees wax in stick form in my Lyman 450. Smells like money to me, it's often cheaper than the exotic lubes out there. Smoke is of no concern to me. Outside, there's never a still day that could cause concern. Inside the well vented indoor range whisks the smoke away quickly.

[mdi]

IMHO, if you pay attention to the posts in the Bollit Lube section and the stickies there, read directions and use common sense, liquid alox works quite well and doesn't clog dies (I'm a neatnick though, maybe it only happens to those other types). I shoot outdoors now but the smoke didn't seem excessive even at indoor ranges (.44 Mag loads w/Unique and W296).

I'm really surprised how a simple brown goop gets some so excited and upset! I read somewhere "If thine eye offens thee, pluck it out", so in my thinking, make life easier on yourself; "If thy lube offends thee, throw it out!". I have better things to write about than tearing down a simple product that works for millions...

[Freightman]

; "If thy lube offends thee, throw it out!". I have better things to write about than tearing down a simple product that works for millions...[/QUOTE]

Amen!!!

[Bill*]

IMHO, if you pay attention to the posts in the Bollit Lube section and the stickies there, read directions and use common sense, liquid alox works quite well and doesn't clog dies (I'm a neatnick though, maybe it only happens to those other types). I shoot outdoors now but the smoke didn't seem excessive even at indoor ranges (.44 Mag loads w/Unique and W296).

I'm really surprised how a simple brown goop gets some so excited and upset! I read somewhere "If thine eye offens thee, pluck it out", so in my thinking, make life easier on yourself; "If thy lube offends thee, throw it out!". I have better things to write about than tearing down a simple product that works for millions...

Do ya have a dog?[smilie=1:
Sorry.....couldn't help it:mrgreen:

[captaint]

I have a new Star and as soon as I get off this computer, I'm gonna write a check to Lathesmith for 4 dies. Been using LLA/JPW 50-50 and no problems. At all.... Not real fun to apply, but it works. enjoy Mike

[Charlie Two Tracks]

What I really need to know is: Does your LLA rub off when seating a boolit? When I have pulled some loaded rounds, the LLA is no longer on the driving bands and very little has gone into the groove. It seems that it is on the brass. I was wondering if that has happened to anyone else. thanks

[Gohon]

Well now ya do.. So stop it or you will go blind and hair will grow on your palms

Don't listen to them.......you will not go blind and the hair can easily be shaved off each time you shave.


When I have pulled some loaded rounds, the LLA is no longer on the driving bands and very little has gone into the groove. It seems that it is on the brass.

When you pull a bullet I suspect the crimp itself will drag some of the lube out of the lube grooves and certainly will scrap any that may be on the the driving bands. The only thing really important is it works as intended when fired.

[noylj]

Well, since I don't care about smell or this "smoke" people keep talking about (having never noticed it inside or out), I will keep using ALOX until something comes along that is both as quick to apply and produces smaller groups and cleaner barrels.
I have never tried the home made creations, but of all the stick lubes and pan lubes and tumble lubes I have tried, ALOX gives me as small or smaller groups and as clean or cleaner barrels for a less work for me.
Some people put on too much ALOX, but that is just a waste.

[Tedak]

When you pull a bullet I suspect the crimp itself will drag some of the lube out of the lube grooves and certainly will scrap any that may be on the the driving bands. The only thing really important is it works as intended when fired.

+1 on both points, especially the second one.

I've been using LLA in handguns and rifles with GC'd and PB boolits. I've pulled some LLA-coated boolits and noticed that the bands looked bare too. It hasn't seemed to matter downrange or in the bore afterwards.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Thanks for all the replies. I have been having a leading problem with my cast boolits. Factory made bullets work fine but mine don't. I am trying to find the answer and this LLA was one of the components that I wondered about. My boolits are sized .002 over cylinder diameter so it can be alloy, casting method, lube, powder charge or a combination. I am getting closer to getting the problem solved. It's a little time consuming when you can't get go out the back door and fire a few off. I wished I lived out in the country again. Maybe when I retire. You guys that have a range in your back yard have it made! No envy here........um-----JUST JEALOUS!

[mdi]

Do ya have a dog?[smilie=1:
Sorry.....couldn't help it:mrgreen:

Not right now, but I know what you mean!:wink:

I have never pulled an alox lubed bullet, I've had no reason to do so (but I would think the crimp would scrape the lube off the bearing surfaces). My boolits are sized to fit my guns so leading isn't a great problem, and alox or 50-50 works well for me...

[Cowboy T]

I've pulled out LLA'd boolits before when I had an accidental run of squibs. Most of the lube stays on the inside of the case. Maybe a little of it goes into the lube grooves, but if that's true, it's not very much.

BTW, I've got nothing against any style of boolit lubing that works for people. If pan lubing works for you and you like it, use it. If Lubri-Sizers work for you and you like 'em, use 'em. If LLA works for you and you like it, use it!

[Elkins45]

I've had good luck with it and I kinda like the smell. As for the smoke, since I shoot outdoors it has never been a problem.

I think its great stuff for plinkers. I don't know if I would use it for high velocity rifle, but there's not really a bullet designed for that anyway.

[DLCTEX]

Quote:I have a new Star and as soon as I get off this computer, I'm gonna write a check to Lathesmith for 4 dies.
That sounds like a vote for tumble lubing to me.:D

[qajaq59]

Charlie Two Tracks, it could be anything on your list that is a problem. About all you can do is change one thing at a time until you find the glitch. But, since your range is far away you could load 5 bullets with a different change in each one. That way you could test a bunch of variables with only one trip to the range.

[HeavyMetal]

Ordered a mold from a GB last night, 38 HBWC, and once again gave thought to "alternative" lubing methods.

So I'll pass on something I did back in the late 70's and had completely forgotten about: Lymans spray Moly lube!

Originally sold as a jacketed moly coating they also suggested it as a mold release and I used it for both!

My goal at the time was mass production, not removing a leading issue, in my 45 auto loading. The spray Moly was fast and easy to use boolits dryed in just a few minutes, but I usually waited an hour to handle, and performed very well.

Stopped the project because I got a deal on my first Star and the Moly spray wasn't as easy to find then as it is now.

With the oncoming HBWC mold I may pick up a can and "reinvent" a moly costing and see if my Model 52 likes it.

Stuff is not expensive and maybe just what your looking for!

[Rusty Shackleford]

Well now ya do.. So stop it or you will go blind and hair will grow on your palms.

How funny......
I have never used anything but LLA for my handgun loads. You folks make me feel like a dummy, because of it. I only shoot out of doors and like Unique so smoke is not an issue for me.
However I will cut it (LLA) with 50% JPW the next time I cast any.

The stuff works for me.