For Lar45 or anyone else with a 45-70 BFR

[44man]

My brass has been shot and loaded so much that accuracy has gone south. I am going to anneal it to see what happens but need new brass. What brass has proven to be the most accurate for your gun? Mine is old nickel plated Federal and I use Starline in my BPCR but it seems that I remember WW brass shooting good from the revolver. I only have a few old WW cases left so they are not worth testing.

[doghawg]

44 man

My first choice for heavy loads is Remington cases if for no better reason than they are heavier by about 20 to 25 grains on average. I'm thinking that the slightly thicker case wall might lead to longer life and better neck tension. Can't prove it though.

Gotta like them BFR's! :-D

[lar45]

All I've shot in mine is Winchester. I do have some Remington from factory ammo, but have never loaded it.
A couple of years ago, Baikal was supposed to be importing a 45-70 SxS double rifle, so I bought 500 cases... They never did import the gun. I think Remington bought everything they had and put a Spartan label on it.
Too bad. would have been a fun toy.

[44man]

I have to dig around, I think I have enough WW brass to re-visit it. I don't have any Remington. I never bought any WW brass because it is so thin. The thickest brass is Starline and Federal which are almost exactly the same, then Remington and WW is the thinnest.
My case tension varies too much with the old brass because I never loaded in sequence, some loaded many times and others not. I have 10 annealed cases and will shoot one at a time checking for boolit pull. Any that creep out will stop the annealing and I will have to spend the money.
I never fired all before I reloaded them so it is my fault. Some might have 40 reloads and some 4 or 5 and they get mixed up.
Then there is that darned 4198 that will over expand some brass while other cases fall out of the gun. This stuff acts REAL bad with cast boolits. A hot gun bothers it too, just like 4227.
Any short barrel with a large case is very picky with powders. Just going over the line to the next slower powder and it won't all burn, going too fast leaves the case almost empty and powder position and too fast a pressure rise becomes an issue. The in between powders have pressure and heat issues. Without a lot of money to buy a bunch of powders, it gets even harder to find the right one. I have had good luck with 4759 because it is bulky but now the brass is shot so even it isn't working.

[doghawg]

44 man

After a lot of experimenting with different powders, I ended up with two. Unique for reduced practice loads and Rel #7 for hunting loads. Both gave uniform velocity and complete burns.

[doghawg]

I'm having a heck of a time posting here. Keep losing the post. After a lot of experimenting with powders, I've settled on two. Unique for practice loads and Rel #7 for hunting loads. Also am using a Lee factory crimp die.

[44man]

I found some Fed cases that have never been sized, used for BPCR. I have a bunch loaded with 5744 and Reloader 7. I never load plinking loads, only hunting loads. I want the same recoil and trajectory for practice.

[lar45]

I bought the Winchester brass as it can be used without reaming to make 475 Linebaugh cases for the Ruger conversions. I didn't have a 475 at the time, but it looks like they made the rim smaller when they registered it so it could fit the Freedom Arms guns.

I don't remember which one now, but I tried a slower powder in the 45-70BFR. When loaded to the same velocity that I got good groups with a faster powder, the slower powder groups were huge. I think it was H4895. ??

[44man]

Lar, I tried 4895 and it doesn't burn all the way. I found a lot of unburned powder in the bore, the cylinders and on the bench. Too slow! There is a very narrow band of powders that will work in the shorter barrels. Some, like 4227, I will not even go near. 3031 gave some great groups but low velocity and a lot of unburned powder.
I have had fantasic accuracy until lately. I still get some good groups but I get as many poor ones too. I boiled it down to the brass after inspecting everything else. My forcing cone is still shiny after I clean it. The low pressures are really easy on the gun.
I was just wondering if one brand works better in the gun then another before I spend any money. I just can't afford to buy all of them to compare.
I have hundreds of Starline cases but most are loaded for BPCR, I just can't split any away.
I am at the point now that I have to conserve powder for hunting season. If I shoot it all up, the season will be over before I can buy more.

[doghawg]

44 man

After many problems with an occasional erratic velocity and with unburned granules (AA5744 was the worst) I...Started using a Lee factory crimp die.
...Quit using the expander die with jacketed bullets (I,m goint to try this with GC's)
...Stuck with 400 gr. bullets
... Switched to Rel #7 and Unique

My problems are solved but which one of the changes made the difference, I dunno.

Also, 350 laser cast over 15 gr. of Unique shoots to the same POI as 400gr bullets over 41 gr. of Rel#7 in my gun. While the hunting load wasn't that bad for recoil the practice load is downright gentle. I may try 300 gr. bullets again over Blue Dot but will tread softly cause there isn't much data for Blue Dot. I suspect it will give a clean burn and will achieve 1500 fps with a 300 gr. HP. Plenty of power for a whitetail.

[44man]

Thanks, I will give them a try.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Dang it I can feel a BFR moment coming on! What to choose? 30/30 or 45/70. maybe 444. I wouldn't mind a 38/55! Mick.

[jar-wv]

Love my BFR 454. Little Max I think they call it. Have had it for about 5 yrs, excellant revolver. The 30/30 sounds mighty interesting. I've always heard that a bottleneck in a revolver presents many chalenges though. sorry to stray from the topic, just wanted to say the BFR is ok in my book.

jar

[44man]

I have to get back to you and say the annealed brass (Federal) improved my accuracy and the bullets didn't pull out. I shot a 9/16" group with the Hornady bullet at 50 yd's and put 3 cast boolits in an inch on an empty paint spray can at 100 yd's.
I did buy 100 new Remington cases though. I will have to move out of the basement soon because there is brass everywhere.

[doghawg]

44 man

Good shooting!

My .45/70 may be capable of accuracy like that but I doubt if I am. It will hover at an inch or a little over and all my shooting now is practicing from hunting positions that will be encountered this fall.

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Sorry for coming to this topic late.


I con't know exactly how this will affect things in a revolver, but annealing my brass did wonders for me when I was using Win brass in my 45/70. The gun was an original 1884 Trapdoor that was starting to show varying amount of blowback around the case mouths and varying accuracy. I decide to anneal all my cases which had been shot multiple times ( at minumun of 10+ each) and it all went away. The blowback dissappeared, and the accuracy came back. Now I just anneal everything that I get in new right away. I could tell the necks were getting awfully hard before I annealled, just through the amount of work it took to expand the mouths. After annealing, it takes very little effort to do the mouth work.

For your information, I switched to Starline brass for my buffalo shoooting. That Starline brass gets the annealing treatment right away also. I size, anneal, and load. Then trim. And don't forget to chamfer the inside of the primer pockets also. The Win brass has been relegated to the storage/levergun situations. Only because I figured that I really didn't want to deal with case separations in that Trapdoor during a shoot. Now I have switched to the H&R Buff Classic, so a case head separation wouldn't be quite the big deal anymore because of the "correct" lands and grooves in a modern barrel.

[44man]

I was worried because I tried annealling with revolver brass like the .44 mag, .45 Colt and boolits would pull out and tie up the gun. I guess the 45-70 does not have the quick recoil and it works fine. I only tried 10 cases to start with so I would not have so many to throw out.

[darrell8937]

so pleased to find some like minded shooters. All my friends just don't understand my BFR. Though they all like to shoot factory loads. I have made up a batch of handloads 300 gr hard cast & reloader 7, 42 grains(1.3cc) as measured by a lee loader. thinking of running some thru. wondering what velocity might be and if this load might be too hot. Factory loads are boring in this gun. I shoot some thru my Gibbs Frontier which I got not too long ago. not impressed with the grouping. but the trigger is rough and I don;t like the sights or the fit of the gun. Wonder how they will shoot in the scoped BFR. Are they any other BFR forums etc. Have not found a lot on these. besides reviews etc.

[44man]

I tried the Reloader 7 and it wasn't too great. I think it is better in a rifle. I have not found any powder so far that will beat 4759 yet. I think it is THE powder for the BFR.
It appears to me that slow powders need a continual buildup of pressure to burn smoothly and the cylinder gap just wipes that out. Too much gas is escaping behind the powder column as it is going down the bore.

[lar45]

I have made up a batch of handloads 300 gr hard cast & reloader 7, 42 grains(1.3cc) as measured by a lee loader. thinking of running some thru. wondering what velocity might be and if this load might be too hot. .
I plugged that into quickload with a 10" bbl and came up with 1570 fps at a measly 20,500 psi.
It's just a simulation, but it should give you an idea of what to expect.
The BFR should easily handle loads listed for the Marlin.

[ebner glocken]

I can't speak from experience in a BFR but have had good luck out of a 14" T/C with 2400. It seems to really fit the bill in burn rate. All loads from 20-26 grains behind a 405gr cast have been used with dracon fiber fill (1/2" square).

[44man]

I never tried 2400 because I wanted to use more of the powder space. 4759 is bulky and fills quite a bit of it. It burns clean and completely too. I never have any strange results with it, no flyers, sticky cases and the velocity is real good.