Question about LEE F Crimp dies?

[Canuck Bob]

I'm getting mixed reviews on the Factory Crimp die. I will be loading 444 and 32-20 in lever actions.

Some respected sources say use the FC Die and others say don't.

Opinions, pls.?

[cajun shooter]

I have and use the Lee FCD in several different calibers. I don't load the ones that you do and therefore can't address that. They work great for loading my SASS ammo and can solve many seating and bulging brass problems. Until I used the Lee die in the 44-40 I would have some cases that would not load in my guns. The die has a carbide sizing ring in most calibers that sizes the case after bullet seating. Some people have had problems with this and removed the ring and then kept using the dies. I like to seat in one stage and crimp as the last stage. I think your ammo is more uniform when loaded with 4 steps instead 3. I had the same reports when I went to buy. The dies are cheap. Try one of your calibers and see what it does for you.

[RobS]

There's mixed reviews because people have different reloading practices and have different firearms: standard groove diameters, or smaller groove diameter for specified caliber, or even larger groove diameter for specified caliber. All of which are considerations of why the die works for some and not for others.

It can even be an issue with hardness of bullets...........i.e. air cooled vs water quenched. The carbide ring is to "iron out" the case if there are any uniformity issues and that is the sales pitch. If the carbide ring sizes the case down enough that it affects the intended diameter of the bullet then yes a person can have issues as a bullet swages down and becomes too small for its application.

Think for a moment on general sizing of lead bullets. A harder bullet such as lino or water quenched and how it has a spring back affect vs a softer bullet. The same sizing die can size a soft bullet smaller than a harder one by as much as .001 of an inch as the harder bullet can and does springs back.

This same principle is the reason why when slugging a barrel it is important to use soft lead "pure" or close to it so the slug doesn't spring back and give for a skewed measurement. The other end of this is when casting hard bullets some will still have success using the FCD even though the carbide ring makes considerable contact with the case as the bullet springs back afterwards.

As I said there are many variables to why some have success and why others don't have it with the Lee FCD.

[HeavyMetal]

Something else is the fact that Lee has two "factory" crimp dies!

The one for rifle is much different than the one for pistol and I think a lot of people get the notion mixed up.

In your case the 32-20 is a pistol die set and the 444 Marlin is a rifle die set. The difference in the cost of the 4 die set versus the 3 die set isn't worth fighting over!

Buy the deluxe sets with the respective FCD dies and decide of you need them as you set up your reloading tool.

Now lets discuss the pistol version of the FCD die. It has a carbide ring in the base to give your case a second sizing as you crimp your boolit in place. The idea is to make sure that every round feeds every time!

In a straight walled case this has the nasty habit of sizing the lead boolit as well usually casing leading as a result of under sized boolit fit.

The cool part in your case is the 32-20 is a bottlenecked case and, unless the change the die for some reason the neck area should not come in contact with the sizing portion of the die.

However do not take me at my word on this as I have never seen a Lee 32-20 die set or the FCD diie specifically for the 32-20!

So I would think it best that you call Lee's customer service and get some clarification on how that particular die set up works before you spend your money!

[RobS]

Something else is the fact that Lee has two "factory" crimp dies!

Good point...........the bottle neck FCD's are a collet type and one doesn't have the carbide ring to worry about such as in the straight wall FCD. I like the collet style FCD's and use them in my rifle loads with very nice results.

[1hole]

Lee's rifle (collet) crimpers are adjustable from no crimp to far too much crimp. From what I read on the net, seems some folks can't quite deal with that complexity; is it the die's fault? Nope.

[RobS]

1hole:

You are right on the collet FCD............you can actually set it to crimp too much and ruin the die however this would be pretty hard to do as the crimp would be so substantial that it would first start messing up the brass pretty badly

[462]

It works well for .30-30 WCF in my Winchester Model 94.

[1hole]

"the collet FCD............you can actually set it to crimp too much and ruin the die however this would be pretty hard to do as the crimp would be so substantial that it would first start messing up the brass pretty badly"

An old guy story about the FCD:

If I remember correctly, it all started back in the late 80s when the Blount holding company held both RCBS and Speer. They were alarmed at the competition Lee was suddenly giving RCBS. Probably with Blount's encouragement, RCBS did a several months long series of expensive but misleading gun magazine adds showing photos of damaged - wasp waisted actually - bullets badly over done with a Lee collet crimper. It looked like they must have "modified" the collet massively to accomplish what the photos showed! The text said, of course, not to use the bad old Lee dies on Speer bullets! Okay, I could NOT do that, so I haven't bought a Speer bullet since.

The adds were so stupid and poorly done it badly back-fired on them; Lee got a lot of customers wanting to see how the die actually worked! After using one it seems MOST of us thought they worked quite well when properly adjusted so we got more. And both RCBS and Speer got black eyes for attempted deception. But, those few who used them without comprehension over crimped and then cussed the Lee dies for their own errors! (Some people are the weirdest folks I know! :) )

[Heavy lead]

The 444 die does NOT have a carbide ring and works great. I have great results in the carbide ring 45 acp and 45 colt as well, the 45 acp does size, but not overly and works great for me, the 45 colt carbide ring never touches. The only ring I've had to knock out is in the 44. I have one for the 30-30 too and works great, of course this does not have the carbide ring either.
I hate reading directions, but for these dies read them, it's amazing how well they work.

[Canuck Bob]

If I understand it correctly if the 32-20 has the carbide ring it can be knocked out and the die used as a crimp die afterwards?

Research has confirmed the 444 is of the collet type. Anyone use a 32-20 FC die?

[woody1]

If I understand it correctly if the 32-20 has the carbide ring it can be knocked out and the die used as a crimp die afterwards?

Research has confirmed the 444 is of the collet type. Anyone use a 32-20 FC die?

Got one, never used it. I'll try to dig it out when I'm next in the "gun Building."
Regards, Woody

[woody1]

Got one, never used it. I'll try to dig it out when I'm next in the "gun Building."
Regards, Woody

I do not have a 32WCF FCD, it's a 44WCF. Sorry. Regards, Woody

[Mk42gunner]

The only Lee Factory CrimpDie that I have is for the .38-55 Win. I have never used it because while I have the mold, dies, cases, and even the barrel, I have not found the right Model 94Winchester to complete the rifle. The Rifle dies are collet type.

I have not had any problem crimping rifle rounds with the bullet seater die, so I may not need the Lee, but I got it for something like ten bucks at a gun show, so I figured it would be cheaper thaere than if I had to buy a new one.

Robert

I guess I did use it to make a dummy round, it works okay if you seat and crimp in two steps.

[truckmsl]

I sure like the FCD for my 7.62x39 auto loader.

[1hole]

"If I understand it correctly if the 32-20 has the carbide ring it can be knocked out and the die used as a crimp die afterwards?"

There are no carbide rings in Lee's collet crimping dies, that includes the .32-20 and all other bottle neck cases.