Shot size for the .444

[Marlin Junky]

I'd like to put together some snake loads for the .444 and was wondering if I should use #8 or #9 shot. I'm not a shotgunner so I'd need to buy a bag of Magnum Shot. I'm also wondering what to use for an over-the-shot-wad. I'd pick up some AA wads to hold the shot.

Thanks for the help.

MJ

[RugerFan]

When I used to make shot loads for a .44 mag, I used .429 gas checks that were run through a Lee push through sizer. Used them for both under and over the shot. A roll crimp kept it all in place.

[DLCTEX]

When making shot loads for my 45 I use wads made from take out food styrofoam trays, cut with a cartridge case with saw teeth filed into it. I glue the over shot wads in place using Dap tub and tile caulk. I was surprised at how well the styrofoam holds up for over powder wads. I use a .223 case for a rammer.

[krag35]

I use the styrofoam overshot card glued in with DAP like Dale. I haven't gotten around to building shot loads for my 444, but plan on it.
krag35

[Denver]

I'd like to put together some snake loads for the .444 and was wondering if I should use #8 or #9 shot. I'm not a shotgunner so I'd need to buy a bag of Magnum Shot. I'm also wondering what to use for an over-the-shot-wad. I'd pick up some AA wads to hold the shot.

Thanks for the help.

MJ

I've found that #9 shot in the 44 Mag or 45LC is plenty effective for snake loads. More pellets and denser pattern than with 8's. Ditto the foam wads and glue mentioned in other posts.

:castmine:

[C1PNR]

I'd like to put together some snake loads for the .444 and was wondering if I should use #8 or #9 shot. I'd pick up some AA wads to hold the shot.
MJ
I can't offer any help regarding the use of AA wads in this load. I will offer one opinion, based at least in part on experience.

The use of shot loads in rifled arms works quite well in handguns. And better in shorter barrels, like 2" to 3" in my experience.

Once you get past the 4" length you start seeing a "donut" shape pattern, that is a ring of shot with a pronounced hole in the middle. Leading also becomes problematical as barrel length increases.

I'll be interested in your results, as I'd like nothing better than to find an answer to the donut shape pattern in larger bore guns.

[Marlin Junky]

I just pick up some AA410HS wads (the red ones). They actually "mike" less than .410. Should I have gotten the AA410 (white) wads instead?

MJ

[woody1]

I load .444's for my .410. You've already found that the shot cups are small. I recommend that you use a cardboard over powder wad cut with a sharpened 45 acp case in a drill or a suitably sized wad punch. Styro wads work OK but I think cardboard over powder works better. Use styro wads for filler and top them also with a cardboard wad. I think perhaps some of the shot gets stuck in the styro and topping with cardboard (may) help the pattern. What cardboard? I use primer boxes mostly both for overpowder wads and over shot wads. I don't know of any way to keep from having a lousy pattern with a rifled bore but if you keep your speed down you should have a satisfactory killin' load at snake killing distance. Prob'ly not a 15 yard grouse load though. Regards, Woody

[Marlin Junky]

Woody,

Are the white wads larger in diameter? I'm guessing the red (HS) wads are narrower because the HS hull is thicker...??

MJ

[onceabull]

Bill: the solution is called a smoothbore-- get out the really coarse valve grinding compound,plenty of patches and go to work with a "stop"about 3/4 " from the muzzle(still looks like a pistol or rifle from that end ),but too short to get signicant spin on the wad/charge.. Then use ball or Minie if you are after bigger stuff.. all courtesy of the late Geo.Nonte... Onceabull

[jar-wv]

I use cardboard for both the over powder and over shot loads in 45Colt with #9 shot, glue on top. Cardboard is like that from cereal box, cut with a sharpened case.

jar

[Marlin Junky]

I want to use plastic shot columns with magnum shot to resist deformation from the Ballard style rifling. I've tried using unprotected shot in a 14" twist .458WM and the resulting patterns were poor.

MJ

[woody1]

Woody,

Are the white wads larger in diameter? I'm guessing the red (HS) wads are narrower because the HS hull is thicker...??

MJ
If by white wads you mean the WAA41's, nope. They're under .40 in base dia. If you want to protect the shot charge try paper patching or use a couple wraps of 5 mil polyethelene material inside the case before dumping the shot. Paper is more environmentally friendly. Regards, Woody

[Marlin Junky]

Woody,

Thanks for the help.

Now I need to know how to charge 'em! I've got several partially full cans of stuff like 296, 2400 (not even sure whether H or A brand) and AA#9. I was thinking about going with 14 grains of AA#9 because I think I've got plenty of it. If I run out of AA#9 though, I was planing on using 15 grains of 296 but I want as much room as possible for the #9 magnum shot... so I probably will only use #9... I've also got some WC-820.

MJ

[woody1]

Woody,

Thanks for the help.

Now I need to know how to charge 'em! I've got several partially full cans of stuff like 296, 2400 (not even sure whether H or A brand) and AA#9. I was thinking about going with 14 grains of AA#9 because I think I've got plenty of it. If I run out of AA#9 though, I was planing on using 15 grains of 296 but I want as much room as possible for the #9 magnum shot... so I probably will only use #9... I've also got some WC-820.

MJ
Just pretend yer loading for a .410. Go for a 1/2 ounce load to start and add filler wads as desired to get as much of the case filled as you want. IMO any load safe in a plastic .410 hull with a plastic wad is going to be safe in your .444 especially with card wads. I don't know anything about AA#9. I generally use 296, Hercules 2400 (yes, that's Hercules not Alliant which I understand may be faster) or Herco. Remember, I'm loading for a .410 shotgun and using 444 cases. I generally use Winchester LR primers. Regards, Woody

[Marlin Junky]

Woody,

I made 55+ .444 shot shells this evening using 14 grains of #9 which has the same volume as 11.8 grains of 2400. Using 14 grains of #9 under the AA410HS wads in fire-formed Remington brass, I was able to get 240 grains of #9 magnum shot (approx. 320 pellets) into the case and still have room for a card wad cut from orange juice cartons and a couple coats of my wife's nail polish to seal 'em up after crimping with a RCBS .444 seater die. The nail polish also serves to color code the ammo!

What kind of pattern do you suppose I'll get from the Outfitter at 20 feet?

MJ

[GP100man]

i wouldnt know about patterns i double tap mr no legs weither toting 44 or 357 .no more wiggle is what i went for. i checked my wifes 38 & she has all 5chambers with shot!! she found a black racer the other day & ithought she was duck hunting ha ha !! she only knows 2 kinds of snakes live ones & dead ones. but i check patterns found elmers carpenters glu on a card board wad crimped would shatter & leave no holes in pattern. what you gonna shot with that 444.?? oh i like #9more shot & individual pellets retain good enuff energy at snake range to make look like you super glued him down . ps i live back door to 4700 acre swamp called seven creeks.

[Marlin Junky]

I was gonna use the shot cartridges on rattlers up close and the patterns turned out to be pretty good at about 9 or 10 feet from the muzzle. It looks like the 20" twist spins things up a bit too much to be good for anything other than blowing away snakes at close range. At about 9 feet from the muzzle, 240 grains of #9 belches out a one foot plus wide pattern from the hip... kinda looks like a mini version of Mississippi's (played by James Caan in "El Dorado" circa 1965) scatter-gun and it would be pretty hard to miss a rattler at that range. Once you take a step or two back though, the center of the pattern is sparse at best. I wish I had a 38" twist .444 for the sake of comparison.

MJ

[GP100man]

hey marlin junky what if you make the shot alittle sticky with liquid alox? it can be varied by thinning with mineral spirits.i posted this then read it lubing #9 shot sounds crazy! but to an experimentor nothing is. ps found on another thread they lubed shot to cut down on leading!

[Marlin Junky]

GP100,

I wish I'd thought of that before loading up 50 shot shells! I'll file your sticky idea away in the dark recesses of my handloading mind 'cause I've gotta get back into my pre-vacation groove. Visiting the Cody Firearms museum and Ballard Rifle Co. is making my transition to reality more difficult that expected. Funny thing about the folks at Ballard though... they seem to prefer building Hi-Walls over their namesakes due to the complexity of the Ballard action. I've gotta say that 4000 bucks sans sights is an awful lot of dough for what I saw, but more power to them. I am definitely considering a spaghetti version of the Hi-Wall in 30-40 though.

MJ

[woodensound]

my .480 likes a half ounce of #9 over 8 gr of hs6, I use a gas check over and under the shot. Increasing the powder really opens up the pattern.

[ammohead]

Not sure about places with softer dirt, but here in Nevada the soil if you want to call it that is usually coarse sand bordering on gravel. Just hold a little low under mr buzzworms belly, head or whatever he shows you and let the sand be your shot. Very effective even at longer ranges. On a gravel road the damage is quite spectacular.

ammohead

[Marlin Junky]

Ammohead,

That's exactly what I've decided to do when traipsing across the Great Basin. A Lee430310 at 2000 fps makes a pretty effective IDE against snakes on decomposed granite but the soil in parts of WY, ID and MT is a lot finer because there are more flood plains.

MJ

[9.3X62AL]

Woodensound--

Welcome aboard, sir.

MJ--have you tried the Speer shot capsules in the 444? The only shot loads I've used on snakes were from 12-410 bores, and they are quite comprehensively effective.

I carried some of the factory loaded Speer 38's on duty until they got found by a rather unimaginative sergeant--nix that, from that day forth. No love at all, whatta putz. The upgrade came with use of road flares on a PVC water pipe extension assembly--the burning flare is fitted into the pipe end, the assembly is extended toward the snake, the flare is struck by the snake, and the snake is toast--literally and figuratively. DRT (Dead Right There)--no gunfire, no memo, no sergeants doing micromanagement. In the Indio/Coachella area, snakes are rather thickly distributed--and I traded ONE snake call for THREE past burglary reports, and saved myself some writing that way. Lotsa city kids on my agency, ya see.

[Marlin Junky]

Deputy Al,

I tried the Speer shot capsules many years ago in .44 wheelguns but this time I wanted to deliver more shot than they are capable of holding. The .444 case will easily accommodate 240 grains of #9 magnum shot, housed in a slightly overflowing AA410HS wad with a cardboard over-shot wad holding things in place prior to roll crimping and sealing. My charge, as I stated earlier, was 14 grains of #9 and I'll probably run a few through the chronograph this week just for reference sake. I suppose one could try a pair of Speer .44 shot capsules in the .444 but that would up the price of the ammo dramatically. It might be worth while hunting down an alternative capsule material though. However, I've got to believe the Outfitter's 20" twist is responsible for the donut shaped patterns. If my chronograph shows 1400+ fps at the muzzle (I'm not sure I even want to shoot these things through my chronograph!) I may back off the velocity a couple hundred f/s by using a smaller charge of something like WW-231/GreenDot/etc.

MJ