Can't seat a bullet straight, 9x19mm

[Dannix]

I'm loading 9x19mm, currently j-words (only finishing up my last few bags before I go boolits, I promise ;)), on a Lee Classic Cast using the Lee Carbide 9mm 'Deluxe' dies.

I'm having a hard time seating the bullet straight. Not sure if it's the really loose and wobbly case, due the Lee cutting their 9mm shellholders to accommodate .40/10mm too, or if it's actually the seater plug not liking the point of the Precision Delta 115grn RN I'm using.

Suggestions? You guys think just picking up a Lyman or Hornady shellholder will do the trick? Do I need a new seater 'plug' too? Maybe I should just bite the bullet and pickup some Hornady Nitride dies + a Lyman M?

[Czech_too]

You're having the same problem, with Lee dies, I had but mine was the 7.62x25 Tokarov.
Lee dies have their uses, but...
My suggestion is to get a set of Hornady dies and since you're going to eventually go to cast, get the 'M' die also.

[BillP]

I don't think a different shell holder is the problem but...+1 with the Lyman M die and the Hornady seater. I use both and Hornady's alignment sleeve will straighten up the worst bullet you will ever have. Lyman's M die lets the bullet slide in deeper when you set it in the case and pretty much centers it up that way. I prefer the M die over the aligment sleeve because it take away most of the fidgeting to put a bullet in the case. I don't use Lee dies so can't comment on them.

[JIMinPHX]

or if it's actually the seater plug not liking the point of the Precision Delta 115grn RN I'm using.

That would be my first guess.

My el-cheapo quick fix for that would be to take the seating die out of the press, turn it upside down on my bench, drip some hot glue into it & then push a greased bullet straight into it, before the glue cools & hardens hardens, to get a custom fit.

[HeavyMetal]

The Lee seater plug is supposed to float while seating a bullet.

Mine do and I always get a straight seat. So the next question is how do you know they are not seating straight??

If your using a run out tool it's time to make a call to customer service.

If your seeing a bulge in the case that doesn't look right perhaps it's time to look at your expander plug and measure some case diameters before and after sizing.

Some sizing dies really work the case when they don't have to. I polished a 38 special sizing die out once for my 38 wad cutter loads because the die was oversizing the case for my intended purpose.

I'd explore some of these things before I just threw money at the problem.

[BillP]

I checked Precision Delta's web site and there's nothing unusual about that bullet nose. Any RN seater plug should work. What type of seater comes with the Lee set you have?

Floating seater...as in it wobbles?

[462]

If you are using a Lee expander die, switch to a Lyman M die. The Lee die installs a flare that can cause the bullet/boolit to enter the case at an angle other than perpendicular. In addition to expanding the case mouth, the M die installs a step which allows the bullet/boolit to sit perpendicular to the mouth.

[canyon-ghost]

I trust you are keeping your fingers on the case to guide it into the die. Also, when loading new brass I found the case mouth has a lot of tension or grip, a good chamfer inside and out is necessary.
Hope that helps,
Ron

[Dannix]

Thanks for all the input guys!

I have to carefully guide the case with my fingers to get a straight round. No doubt concerning the genuineness of the issue if I don't 'baby sit' the seat as I can visually see the difference, don't even need to measure it. Your posts provoked a thought though....it may be how I'm installing the seater die.

From the Lee instructions included with the dies, emphasis theirs:
...Screw the bullet seating die in until it touches the shell holder, then back it out three full turns. Lightly finger tighten the lock ring. Bullet depth is adjusted by screwing the adjusting screw in or out to suit....

Maybe I shouldn't quite follow those directions, but instead have the seater die body screwed down as far as possible, with seater plug then floating as high as possible, for a given OAL. I tried it by dropping a completed round into the seating die and it really lines things up well, particularly compared to the '3 turns' instructions.

Edit: Wait, a PM reminded me this is a combination seater/crimp die. I'm using the 'Factory Crimp' die with my j-words right now so I forgot about this. I'll try it as far as I can to without crimping.

[nes4ever69]

i use lee dies and i was having a difficlut time seating bullets to the right COL. i took the dies apart and cleaned them. i havent been able to reload anything since then to see if that worked but it could help.

[JIMinPHX]

When I use combination seat/crimp dies, I set them be the following steps.

1) Crank the seater plug all the way down.
2) With the press ram all the way down, turn the die in until I get the COAL that I want.
3) Back the seater plug all the way out.
4) Turn the die in until I get the amount of crimp that I want.
5) Lock the lock ring.
6) Turn the seater plug down until it touches the boolit.
Done

If you are using a FC die, then skip steps 3,4 & 6

On a Lee 1000 progressive press, I can load 400 rounds of 9mm per hour, pretty much all good cartridges, if I push myself & have all my components lined up & waiting before I start. Normally I load about half that fast, because I prefer to be extra careful.

My reject rate is normally well below 1%. If Lee dies are set up right, they should give you consistently good results. Ole came over here a month or two ago & loaded up a whole ammo box full of 9mm one morning. I don't think that he had more than 2 or 3 rejects & that was his first time ever using a progressive press. There is nothing wrong with Lee dies.

[glicerin]

The lee flaring tool is a joke(especially for short bullet, short neck cases like 7.62x25). The flaring tool is crudely machined, can be improved by polishing(i use a lathe chuck to spin polish and taper the mouth more). If the flare is off-centre, the bullet goes in crooked and sometimes bulges neck on one side. Lyman m die is the cure.

[Char-Gar]

Great to hear how that truly great Lee stuff is working on the job. Nothing like buying high quality equipment for half the bucks of the high priced spread.

[noylj]

Have tried M-dies and not found any improvement. I have an RCBS expander die for .45 that actually does expand as a step and the bullet will just sit there. However, no other expander die in any other caliber has done this.
Still, the worst that happens it that I hold the bullet as it goes into the seating die, otherwise it can rock back and forth going into the seater..
I don't see it, therefore, as a Lee issue but a general expanding die issue that may just be that after 35+ years, I still haven't learned the secret technique, except with one RCBS die.

[Dannix]

noylj, If I understand it correctly having read around a little bit, something like the Lee flares, the RCBS expands, the Lyman M does the later but also the former too if desired. Not sure if I got this right or not.


Well, I have close-enough-for-now success, at least until I go boolits. Here's how I setup the seater die, in the context of seating only, crimping on another die:

Back the seater plug all the way out.
Drop a round into the seater die, out of the press, so that it is sitting on the crimp part of the crimp/seater die.
Crank the seater plug down just until the round is pushed upwards slightly. (This ensures no crimping will take place.)
Put a round to-be-seated into the shellholder and carefully screw down the die body into the press until desired OAL is achieved.

There's two aspects that could be improved:

The interior die body is a little too loose. This may turn out to be a good thing, however, in the context of larger diameter boolits which could be swaged down by the die body otherwise.
The amount of case inside the die before seating could be improved. This seems to be where the trade off of being a combination crimp/seating die comes into play.

I'm still planning on getting replacement expander and seating dies at some point. I'm not getting perfectly straight rounds, see the two area of improvements listed above, but far less 'baby-sitting' is required, and it's sufficiently good for where I'm at right now, so I'm considering it good enough for now.

Thanks for all the input! :D