Don't See A Scope Page So Here I Stay

[stephen perry]

Food For Thought.
Is there such a thing as a dedicated Cast Bullet Scope. I have several thoughts on such, like to hear your thoughts on such. Don't need to to be directed to somebody's elses speel or Web connection. What do you have to say. Keep it under 10 pages. Scope powers, reticles, parallax rings, mounts, and last manufacturers would help some. Before you give me a 6mmBR repeat tell me what you use for scopes. I'm not impressed with Nikon's or any other hi-priced Yuppie scopes. I have Weaver, B&L, Lyman, Tasco, Leupold, Unertl, Ted Williams, Redfield, Burris all good ones have no preference all work fine.

So what you got and what Cast rifles you put them on like say a Savage 340 in 22 Hornet with a nice Weaver 8x scope, that would be a desireable Cast gun and scope. Have some fun with this Thread. Like to hear your thoughts.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Doc Highwall]

On my 40X in 308 Win I had a Leupold MK4 8.5x25x and I wanted more magnification so I mounted a Barska Benchmark 40x 50mm. On my highwalls I have been using older Redfield 3200 24x. When I start to tinker with my 7mm BR I am going to use a Leupold 3.5x10x. I have a lot of other scopes as well but I have some Nikon Monarch Gold 1.5x-6x 42mm that I like for hunting that might end up on the 7mm BR.

[BruceB]

Interesting subject, and one which I seem to keep changing my mind about.

My cast-bullet rifles and loads run from light-recoil/low-velocity stuff to some rather ambitious heavy calibers and loads, so the scopes seem to vary a lot. Less-expensive items like a Tasco 6-24 and a 36X fixed glass of the same make have done well for me in "normal" load workups, but are used for load development only. The permanent glass for each rifle varies from a fixed 4X to a 1.5-4.5X, a 2-7X or sometimes a 3-9X. Quite a few of my rifles now mount aperture rear sights and Lyman 17s up front, and no scopes at all. Lever guns and aperture sights just seem "right" to this ol' guy.

Some of my heavy rifles have cast-bullet loads approaching factory levels, such as the .404 with NEI's 400 grains running at 2100 or so, and the .416 Rigby also well over 2000 fps in some loads with its RCBS 365s. Such rifles wear their "service" glass for load work, usually a low-power Leupold. The stresses can be quite high in such applications. That .404 weighs barely 8.5 pounds, and it makes itself known to everything and everybody! My .416 #1 has a fixed Leupold 4X, but the .404 is wearing only its English express iron sights right now. The .404 load development was done with a 3-9X Loopy.

Any scoped rifle of mine which might see serious hunting mounts a Leupold VX-II or VX-III. More-casual pursuits use Bushnells, Pentaxes and Weavers, as of today, as well as the mentioned Tascos above.

I just realized how danged fickle I am...

[stephen perry]

Thanks Doc
I have a 6.5x20 Leupold target knobs that has no real home in my arsenal. I could put it on the .308 I am going to buy but I see no real gain over my Leupold 12x I plan for my .308 now. Now if I really want a 20x on my .308 I would rather go with my Lyman AA, better reticle, crosshair/dot, and better clicks. Since I am a NBRSA benchrest shooters I am used to hi power scopes with 1/8 minute dot.

If I really get crazy I put my B&L 36x on the Ruger but for what, less field of view on a Varmint rifle, bad ju ju. I am an old school varminter that believes in good lenses, parallax rings, and reliability, and in this case a Cast gun that will shoot 200 yd groups 1/2" or better. I have shot .18 aggs at 200 with my BR gun at Phoenix and Visalia.

Cast bullets to me are a fun game away from my NBRSA duties. I have made and shot Cast rifle/pistol since 1963.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Doc Highwall]

I like to use the high power scopes for load development just to take the me variable out of the equation.

[MT Gianni]

I run a few Burris Fullfield 3x9 with a mill dot. I like them and the way they shoot. The BLR 308 now has a 2x7 Leopold replacing a 2x8 Tasco World Class. I just picked up a 2.5 Savage to put on the 340 in 30-30. I have a few guns that are cast only but most of them wear receiver sights. My combo J-word/cast tend to have variables, 2x7 or 3x9. The 243 has a 4x12 Redfield. My only "target" scope is on an AR.

[9.3X62AL]

I have no dedicated "target" rifles. If I don't hunt with them, rifles don't stay around very long.

Most of my rifles use iron sights, open or aperture. About 20% wear scope sights. Rat guns have less expensive scopes, while deer/large game rifles have Leupold glass.

[stephen perry]

I too have a Leupold 2x7 it's on my .338 where it belongs. I have Lee and Lyman .338 Cast molds I want to shoot the bullets from. Like to have a 6x18 Redfield, if I had one I would put it on my 22-250. I am Casting 225646 for my 22-250 now.

Honestly the best Cast scopes I have are my Tasco 4x12 and my Tasco 6x24. Clearer lenses than my Leupolds and great adjustments.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Jack Stanley]

Scopes ?? ummmmmm ............... I got lots of them , it's just that only have three actually on a rifle right now . The two Kimbers have Leupolds , a four and a two by seven power , the three oh eight has a Kahles six power . Most of my shooting is done with old military rifles and a couple old ratty twenty-twos .

Jack

[MT Gianni]

I too have a Leupold 2x7 it's on my .338 where it belongs. I have Lee and Lyman .338 Cast molds I want to shoot the bullets from. Like to have a 6x18 Redfield, if I had one I would put it on my 22-250. I am Casting 225646 for my 22-250 now.

Honestly the best Cast scopes I have are my Tasco 4x12 and my Tasco 6x24. Clearer lenses than my Leupolds and great adjustments.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

I would have kept the tasco on it but after 20 + years the adjustments would not hold when switching from cast to J-words.

[Doc Highwall]

I have dedicated target rifles with dedicated scopes and iron sights. I am using my Remington 40X in 308 Winchester as a dedicated cast bullet gun now with a scope. I am also working with two High walls one in 30-30 Win with GB-311041PB and one in 38-55 with SAECO #738 and for a scope I am using a older Redfield 3200 24X on both.

[stephen perry]

Today I sighted in 3 rifles at 100 yd. I have plans of using all 3 as Cast guns. The guns were a Rem 788 in .223, Rem 722 with 6x45 TCU Douglas barrel, and a Rem 788 with 6x47 Rem Hart barrel. The guns all shot well, 10x and 12x scopes are not prone to shooting the under 1/2" groups I know these guns will shoot. I didn't help myself by not having any wind indicators out, wind flags and mirage paper. I wanted to see how the guns would do without using all my BR tools. All 3 guns shot under an inch but I'm use to under 1/4" with my BR guns.

Trigger pull is the main culpret here. My 6x45 has a Reminton trigger I can adjust down to 37 oz, my 788 is adjusted to 36 oz, my 6x47 has a Canjar set probably under an ounce, cannot be measured, I am used to Jewell triggers the 1 1/2 oz type so I have to be real careful shooting factory triggers, need to pull straight back to make the gun recoil straight back. Anything other than straight back on recoil can throw shoots left or right. I practice my technique all the time shooting factory guns.

I have 3 scopes available I want to try, all 36x. Field of view must be considered here. But I will swap field of view for holding on top of shots, I am what you would call an aggresive shooter. I want to get all I can out of a rifle, the scope being an accessory. I might not stay with the 36x scopes but for now I want to give myself a chance to shoot some nice groups at 100/200.

This Friday I will sight in 3 more rifles, my Rem 722 in .222, my Springfield action Varmint in 6 Rem., and my FN .270. Later I will check my sight in on my Win 30-30, open sights. So far I have sighted in 8 rifles in 3 trips to the West End Range, all starting at 25 yd and then advancing to 100, later I will go up the Lytle Creek Cyn and shoot 200 at the upper Range, The Firing Line.

All this sight in I go through is so that when I go Cast with most of these guns I won't be wasting bullets and frustrate myself with all the preparation I do for a day at the Range. For BR there is twice as much prep but that's to be expected.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[9.3X62AL]

There are a couple rifles here at the scorpion plantation that might benefit from some bench time with high-mag/high-end optics for their cast booliting. One is the Rem 788 x 243 that can be very satisfying at 100 to 200 yards for the operator--and very disappointing to ground squirrels and jackrabbits. Abruptly so.

Mr. Perry, you prompt a little re-thinking on my part. I'll be looking on as the thread continues, and working some loads downrange not too far north of you--right off S.R. 14 near Inyokern.

[jlchucker]

I only own two rifles with scopes on them. One is a bolt gun in 7mm-08, and the other a Marlin in 35 Remington. I'm seriously considering de-scoping the Marlin. It carries better in the woods. The bolt gun is a Winchester 70 Compact and has no iron sights. Therefore the Nikon 2-7 stays.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got more leupolds then anything.

[NSP64]

My favorite scope is a Center Point with lighted mid-dot reticule. Got it for everyday plinking/hunting. 4-16x40 . I have in on a .308 now but I have used it on .270. It survived a Double charge explosion that blew the .270 in half:oops: I have a friend that has one on his .300 win mag. He only shoots max loads. I got mine for 49.00.:bigsmyl2:

[Doc Highwall]

For old target scopes I have Malcolm 3X, Lyman super target spot 10X and 15X, Unertl 2" Ultra Varmint 15X, Redfield 3200 24X and for modern scopes I have Leupold 6.5X-20X EFR and 6.5X 20X Long range scopes boosted by Premier Reticule to 14.5X-35X and a Leupold MK4 8.5X-25X. I just picked up a Barska Benchmark scope 40X50mm and it holds zero so far so for $167.00 I cannot complain. Hunting scopes Schmidt and Bender, Leupold LPS and VXiii , Nikon Monarch Gold, and Shepherd. I have other also just hard to remember them all at once. All of my competition iron sights for bolt guns are either Anschutz or Warner with some old Redfield for non serious shooting.

[stephen perry]

How many of those scopes you own do you have on Cast rifles and which ones.

Lloyd I have 8 Leupold's and don't consider them any better than my Weaver's or Lyman's. Lloyd which of your rifles/pistols would consider as good candidates for a Cast bullet scope.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Doc Highwall]

stephen perry, I am switching scopes on my Remington 40X in 308 Win. between the Leupold MK4 8.5x-25x50mm and the Barska Benchmark 40X50mm. On the two Highwalls in 30-30 Win and 38-55 Win I am using the Redfield 3200 24X ( stole the other one for one of my Anschutz Target rifles). I am also working with an Encore in 7mm BR with a Leupold VX3 3.5X-10X and hope to put some cast bullets through a 1885 Low Wall in 260 Remington that has a Shepherd scope mounted on it. I have been shooting cast in some of my other Highwalls and Low Walls with iron sights chambered in 357mag, 40-65,45-70 and 45-90.

[Ben]

My shooting is at 100 yards or less.
This rifle fires cast boolits ONLY !

I do a lot of paper punching with this rifle, it is a joy to shoot. 1917 Winchester Enfield Sporter. Glass bedded, 3/4 lb. Timmney trigger. 30/06 Springfield.
The rifle has a Douglas XX, air gauged barrel , circa 1966.

Burris, 12 X fixed power scope with an A/O and fine cross hairs.
This scope is hard to beat for paper punching.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Win%201917%20Sporter/PICT0001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Win%201917%20Enfield%20Sporter/DSCN0505.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/Win%201917%20Sporter/PICT0007.jpg

My friend Jason went to the range with me a few days ago and shot this 10 round group with my rifle and scope ( only 1 round out of 10 that is out of the group ) :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/PICT0004-18.jpg

[stephen perry]

Now that's what I'm talking about for a Cast scope on a designated Cast rifle. Most any gun pre- WWII gun was a Cast gun. After WW I bullets like Sierra 1947, Speer 1944, Hornady 1949, Nosler 1948, Barnes 1932, and others like Sisk, RCBS, Remington and Winchester. There are many other bullet Companies if you know some please share, Companies pre- WWII.

Thanks Ben, the guys needed to see a dedicated Cast gun and scope, and that is great group better than most of Pope's groups.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[Ben]

Stephen :

Those are some kind remarks. This rifle is a joy to shoot. It seems to be the opposite of some of my other rifles, .............with this one you have to hunt for loads , that it doesn't like to shoot.

[9.3X62AL]

OK, now I'm beginning to 'get' what you meant initially, Stephen.

Ben, your photography is the ONLY element in your photos surpassing the accuracy of the depicted rifle.

One scope I have ALWAYS liked A LOT is the prototypical police sniper optic that FBI recommends, a Leupold fixed 10X x 50mm with adjustable objective lens. These aren't "cataloged" per se, but have remained in production and can be ordered. Leupold really gets these right, as they do their 12x fixed scopes.

If I were to assemble a dedicated cast boolit target rifle, something like that would be installed. Rifle and caliber.......well, nothing I've tried to date fills the bill so far, but a FN/Husqvarna Mauser in 30-06 I got last Fall shows some early promise as at least a game rifle with J-words, and has the tightest dimensional tolerances I've had in a rifle of that chambering. Castings are next in that rifle.

[45nut]

bump!

[stephen perry]

Better chance than not I will be recieving a Remington 20x BR scope. The scope is shown on the cover of Warren Page's book The Accurate Rifle with a better photo on page 60.

For me it will be more of a nostalgia trip. I had several chances to buy the Remington scope before. If I get the scope I will mount the Remington scope on my 40x BR gun. A 20x scope would be fine at our 100 yd only soon to be Angeles BR Range.

The Remington 20x scope will be more than adequate for 100 yd BR shooting as that was what my Lyman 20x LWBR was used for, as well as 200yd, back in 1977.

Will keep you guys posted if I get the scope.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR :brokenima