Buckshot
07-24-2010, 04:04 AM
................I didn't even think about taking photos, but oh well. I think EVERYONE owns a Zouave made by Antonio Zoli don't they?[smilie=s: This one I bought from one of my old Tuesday shooting buddies for $125. I have another (This one below) that I'd bought back in the early '70's.
http://www.fototime.com/3989E3011A110BF/standard.jpg
But I'd modified it into a carbine type deal. This photo was taken before I'd gotten the nose cap installed. It's not a Zoli, and while I don't recall what I paid for it way back then it was a cheapie. However it's lock is MUCH nicer then the Zoli and it's accuracy isn't too bad either. The difference in recoil now that it's a carbine is noticable.
The Zoli I'd bought from my buddy had come to him from someone else and I don't know what he used it for but it's wearing a 310 Martini Cadet rear sight and a beaded blade front sight on a ramp. Similar to a M700 Remington's except I'm sure it's much older, fully machined and not cast. But being on a repro BP rifle it's no big deal.
So a couple weeks ago Gopher Slayer and I repaired to the range as I HAD to have a BP muzzle loading fix. I took the Zouave and 4 different types of 58 caliber slugs to mess with. I also took the P58 Enfield 2 band and it's a good thing as the Zouave pretty much quit shooting after some 12-15 rounds, and so comes the story. After a war getting the cone out (the fence around it and my wrench had 'issues') I applied the pick and it didn't seem like it was making it into the bore and I was poking HARD in the flash passage. If it was BP fouling I'd never experienced anything like this. I said "Screw this" and shot the Enfield.
At home when I was cleaning it I put the breechface scraper on the rod and it didn't act normal. It was like it was almost stuck in or against something down there. With a bright LED flex light the breechface looked shiney and I couldn't see anything to cause the problem. I decided it was time to pull the breechplug. I took a 4' long piece of 1/4 x 1-1/4" HRS, laid out the area to be milled out for a wrench to fit over the tang and breechplug and removed it.
Inside, ahead of where the face of the breechplug would be was a ring of lead! It was thick enough to stand above the lands and grooves, so to get it out I used the cleaning rod from the muzzle. This lead had been building up in the (come to find out) .300" wide area from the shoulder where the rifling ends to the face of the breechplug. It'd stopped firing as lead had finally built up enough to cover the flash passage. From the end of the barrel forward to the shoulder in the barrel it's .933" long. The length of the breechplug from the abutting face of the tang to the face was only .625" long.
In addition the breechplug was pretty loose in the barrel threads until the tang came up against the rear of the barrel. Worst of all I KNEW they were those communistic heathen metric things, and I don't have a transposing gear setup for my lathe to cut them. I thought about trying to buy a metric bolt to fit, but it also seemed as if they had a slight taper to them like a pipe taper, only not as steep as that. They ran .647" at the nose and .660" by the tang. Checking with the thread gage both 16 and 18 tpi was close, but off enough to not be useable over the length they'd have to thread in.
I had a loose 32 tooth gear and replacing the 48 tooth stud gear it would change the 23 tpi position in the QC box to 17-1/4 tpi. It might just work. It also meant I would have to leave the half nuts ALWAYS engaged with the leadscrew while cutting that wierdo thread. I was not wanting to machine a whole new breechplug and tang. I figured I could make a new breechplug sans tang, and then cut off all but 3 threads of the issue one to use to basically secure the butt end of the barrel. As it was, the new one I'd made would be almost as long as the threaded portion of the old one, so the strength should be about the same. Maybe even more as if that odd 17-1/4 tpi would work, I'd see about tightening up the thread fit too.
I turned a piece of 3/4" W-1 to .660" and then set the lathe up for thread cutting with that 32 tooth gear. With a thread mic I checked and wrote down each thread OD of the original breechplug. Things were going swimmingly until the 4th pass when I let my mind drift. When the tool ran off the end of the stock my hand automatically reached up and flipped the half nut lever. Bummer! Since I thread from the backside with the spindle in reverse it's no big deal, but I wonder how you're supposed to thread up to some feature like a shoulder without dis-engaging the half nuts?
So anyway I did another one and yes I did catch myself almost throwing out the half nuts again! I don't suppose it's a really bad habit however[smilie=w: The crests were all too tall (except for the rearmost) and when I tried the barrel on them (while still in the lathe naturally) they'd start about 1 turn. I had really cleaned the barrel threads well and tried a bit of muscle and got only about a half more turn. I was afraid to try more as the stock might turn in the collet and then I'd have to start all over again. So okay maybe the threads DID need a bit of taper.
BTW, the threads in the barrel had what seemed to me to be excessively flat crests. Another reason I wanted mine to be as tall as possible. I used the lathe file to 'just' knock the crests off the first 3 threads in a bit of taper. Re-trying the barrel it went almost 4 turns. Removing the barrel and looking closely I could see just a bit of burnishing on the front flank of the thread up toward the crest. The threads had been fully cut so I decided (since I was experimenting anyway) to loosen the tool and move it .002" to the left (my left) in it's holder and then make a light cut via dialing in the cross slide instead of the compound (compound was at 29.5º) . I figured that way I could catch the front flank of the thread a tad.
I started the lathe and let the carriage move into the threads (this not using the half nut lever is REALLY crazy stuff!) then dialed in the cross slide till I saw some dust forming on the face of the tool, about .002" according to the dial but I suspect less then that. Trying the barrel this time it turned on almost 9 threads which was just shy of 1/2". This time too I could see that almost all the thread crests had been bottoming, and the barrel was very snug. I wanted my new plug to be .633" long because that length would leave 3 threads on the original breech plug after I'd cut the balance off. I started the lathe and pretty much just let the lathe file ride the tops of the crests with the lightest pressure from me, biased toward the nose for several revolutions.
This time the barrel went on a bit past 11 turns which was almost .650" deep. I thought this might be it, so I parted it off at .633" long. All the threads ran about .007" taller (with the thread mic) then those on the original breech plug. I then put it in the mill base up, and with a 1/8" endmill cut a slot .100" deep across it. I then took a piece of 5/8" CR, put it in a square collet block in the mill vice and milled half, flipped it over and hit it again to leave a 1/8" wide key sticking out. This was to be used as a driver to screw in the new breech plug. Swapping it end for end I milled 2 opposing flats I could use a Cresent wrench on.
Clamping the barrel in the vice I smeared in some copper gasket sealer/lube and started the new breechplug in. It started smooth with only the faintest wobble but soon snugged up with it's base about even with the end of the barrel so I had about .300" (about 5 turns) left to go. With a 10" Cresent wrench on it it smoothly and pretty snuggly continued in, and it then became noticely harder. I checked and the base was almost exactly .300" below the end of the barrel. I managed close to another half turn, but that was it. I hack sawed about half the threaded portion off the old breechplug, then via "file a bit and try", got it to snug up against the new plug about 3/8" off perfection. I then used the newly made breechplug wrench to snug it down.
I'm pretty satisfied that the new breechplug is much more strongly (it's as long) threaded into the barrel then the old one and it's tight up against the shoulder where the rifling begins. And yes, I did have to drill the flash hole through the new breechplug into the bore, once it was installed. Before it simply came through the barrel wall AHEAD of the face of the old plug. Now, while it's not exactly at bore centerline it's at least going to be more toward the middle of the charge and there'll not be a big open area between the rifling and the face of the breechplug.
...............Buckshot
http://www.fototime.com/3989E3011A110BF/standard.jpg
But I'd modified it into a carbine type deal. This photo was taken before I'd gotten the nose cap installed. It's not a Zoli, and while I don't recall what I paid for it way back then it was a cheapie. However it's lock is MUCH nicer then the Zoli and it's accuracy isn't too bad either. The difference in recoil now that it's a carbine is noticable.
The Zoli I'd bought from my buddy had come to him from someone else and I don't know what he used it for but it's wearing a 310 Martini Cadet rear sight and a beaded blade front sight on a ramp. Similar to a M700 Remington's except I'm sure it's much older, fully machined and not cast. But being on a repro BP rifle it's no big deal.
So a couple weeks ago Gopher Slayer and I repaired to the range as I HAD to have a BP muzzle loading fix. I took the Zouave and 4 different types of 58 caliber slugs to mess with. I also took the P58 Enfield 2 band and it's a good thing as the Zouave pretty much quit shooting after some 12-15 rounds, and so comes the story. After a war getting the cone out (the fence around it and my wrench had 'issues') I applied the pick and it didn't seem like it was making it into the bore and I was poking HARD in the flash passage. If it was BP fouling I'd never experienced anything like this. I said "Screw this" and shot the Enfield.
At home when I was cleaning it I put the breechface scraper on the rod and it didn't act normal. It was like it was almost stuck in or against something down there. With a bright LED flex light the breechface looked shiney and I couldn't see anything to cause the problem. I decided it was time to pull the breechplug. I took a 4' long piece of 1/4 x 1-1/4" HRS, laid out the area to be milled out for a wrench to fit over the tang and breechplug and removed it.
Inside, ahead of where the face of the breechplug would be was a ring of lead! It was thick enough to stand above the lands and grooves, so to get it out I used the cleaning rod from the muzzle. This lead had been building up in the (come to find out) .300" wide area from the shoulder where the rifling ends to the face of the breechplug. It'd stopped firing as lead had finally built up enough to cover the flash passage. From the end of the barrel forward to the shoulder in the barrel it's .933" long. The length of the breechplug from the abutting face of the tang to the face was only .625" long.
In addition the breechplug was pretty loose in the barrel threads until the tang came up against the rear of the barrel. Worst of all I KNEW they were those communistic heathen metric things, and I don't have a transposing gear setup for my lathe to cut them. I thought about trying to buy a metric bolt to fit, but it also seemed as if they had a slight taper to them like a pipe taper, only not as steep as that. They ran .647" at the nose and .660" by the tang. Checking with the thread gage both 16 and 18 tpi was close, but off enough to not be useable over the length they'd have to thread in.
I had a loose 32 tooth gear and replacing the 48 tooth stud gear it would change the 23 tpi position in the QC box to 17-1/4 tpi. It might just work. It also meant I would have to leave the half nuts ALWAYS engaged with the leadscrew while cutting that wierdo thread. I was not wanting to machine a whole new breechplug and tang. I figured I could make a new breechplug sans tang, and then cut off all but 3 threads of the issue one to use to basically secure the butt end of the barrel. As it was, the new one I'd made would be almost as long as the threaded portion of the old one, so the strength should be about the same. Maybe even more as if that odd 17-1/4 tpi would work, I'd see about tightening up the thread fit too.
I turned a piece of 3/4" W-1 to .660" and then set the lathe up for thread cutting with that 32 tooth gear. With a thread mic I checked and wrote down each thread OD of the original breechplug. Things were going swimmingly until the 4th pass when I let my mind drift. When the tool ran off the end of the stock my hand automatically reached up and flipped the half nut lever. Bummer! Since I thread from the backside with the spindle in reverse it's no big deal, but I wonder how you're supposed to thread up to some feature like a shoulder without dis-engaging the half nuts?
So anyway I did another one and yes I did catch myself almost throwing out the half nuts again! I don't suppose it's a really bad habit however[smilie=w: The crests were all too tall (except for the rearmost) and when I tried the barrel on them (while still in the lathe naturally) they'd start about 1 turn. I had really cleaned the barrel threads well and tried a bit of muscle and got only about a half more turn. I was afraid to try more as the stock might turn in the collet and then I'd have to start all over again. So okay maybe the threads DID need a bit of taper.
BTW, the threads in the barrel had what seemed to me to be excessively flat crests. Another reason I wanted mine to be as tall as possible. I used the lathe file to 'just' knock the crests off the first 3 threads in a bit of taper. Re-trying the barrel it went almost 4 turns. Removing the barrel and looking closely I could see just a bit of burnishing on the front flank of the thread up toward the crest. The threads had been fully cut so I decided (since I was experimenting anyway) to loosen the tool and move it .002" to the left (my left) in it's holder and then make a light cut via dialing in the cross slide instead of the compound (compound was at 29.5º) . I figured that way I could catch the front flank of the thread a tad.
I started the lathe and let the carriage move into the threads (this not using the half nut lever is REALLY crazy stuff!) then dialed in the cross slide till I saw some dust forming on the face of the tool, about .002" according to the dial but I suspect less then that. Trying the barrel this time it turned on almost 9 threads which was just shy of 1/2". This time too I could see that almost all the thread crests had been bottoming, and the barrel was very snug. I wanted my new plug to be .633" long because that length would leave 3 threads on the original breech plug after I'd cut the balance off. I started the lathe and pretty much just let the lathe file ride the tops of the crests with the lightest pressure from me, biased toward the nose for several revolutions.
This time the barrel went on a bit past 11 turns which was almost .650" deep. I thought this might be it, so I parted it off at .633" long. All the threads ran about .007" taller (with the thread mic) then those on the original breech plug. I then put it in the mill base up, and with a 1/8" endmill cut a slot .100" deep across it. I then took a piece of 5/8" CR, put it in a square collet block in the mill vice and milled half, flipped it over and hit it again to leave a 1/8" wide key sticking out. This was to be used as a driver to screw in the new breech plug. Swapping it end for end I milled 2 opposing flats I could use a Cresent wrench on.
Clamping the barrel in the vice I smeared in some copper gasket sealer/lube and started the new breechplug in. It started smooth with only the faintest wobble but soon snugged up with it's base about even with the end of the barrel so I had about .300" (about 5 turns) left to go. With a 10" Cresent wrench on it it smoothly and pretty snuggly continued in, and it then became noticely harder. I checked and the base was almost exactly .300" below the end of the barrel. I managed close to another half turn, but that was it. I hack sawed about half the threaded portion off the old breechplug, then via "file a bit and try", got it to snug up against the new plug about 3/8" off perfection. I then used the newly made breechplug wrench to snug it down.
I'm pretty satisfied that the new breechplug is much more strongly (it's as long) threaded into the barrel then the old one and it's tight up against the shoulder where the rifling begins. And yes, I did have to drill the flash hole through the new breechplug into the bore, once it was installed. Before it simply came through the barrel wall AHEAD of the face of the old plug. Now, while it's not exactly at bore centerline it's at least going to be more toward the middle of the charge and there'll not be a big open area between the rifling and the face of the breechplug.
...............Buckshot