Drawn for Moose...Now what?

[Drew_CarreyAB]

I got the results back and I am going to be drawn for moose.....My questions are few, but important....I am casting my own bullets for the .303Brit(210 gr) and sized down to .451 @ 466gr for the MZ......Now which of the two in your opinion would be the better round to go with. The MZ bullet is a flat nosed design and I have had good accuracy out to 200yds and the KE to boot. The 210gr .303 (been tinkering with 50/50, pure, and WW) I figure might make the trip a bomb if I make a bad/off hit. I have yet to purchase the MZ yet and am leaning towards a CVA. I have owned a T/C Encore .50(**** groups no matter the load), and a Traditions Tracker 209(two touching and the third 1/2" high and left......Sold it to a buddy).

Need some input on this issue......I myself am leaning towards the MZ, but I'd like to hear some stories on success and/or failure using these or similar rounds......Thanks in advance.

[dk17hmr]

I personally would take something bigger than the 303. The muzzleloaders would be my choice out of the two you have given mainly because of the bullet size and weight.

Or go buy a 45-70 lever gun.

[BruceB]

The .303 is perfectly adequate as a moose rifle with JACKETED bullets.

I would not recommend any cast-bullet load in a .30-caliber rifle for moose, and frankly I'm suspicious of such loads even for deer. This is purely my own opinion, but I believe that cast-bullet big game rifles start at .33 caliber and 250-plus grains, and I'd prefer something starting with a ".4" Yes, I know that many people report success with the .30 and cast bullets; I'm not interested. Too many possible problems exist, even with a soft-pointed cast load.

If it has to be a cast load, Doug's suggestion of a .45-70 makes eminent sense, as does his statement about not using the .303. I dearly love the .303 British, incidentally, to the extent that I have a new Ruger #1 in that caliber en route to me right now....but it won't see any cast loads for big game.

[blaser.306]

If you use either , be close enough to leave powder burns ! At least with the .303 you stand a chance of a follow up shot (or perhaps two ) Just my opinion , for what it's worth ! Good luck on your swamp donkey hunt!!!!

[BD]

Lucky dog you!

Moose are not particularly hard to kill. The majority of those taken in Maine are taken with factory ammo in pretty common cartridges. I think that more have been taken with the 6.5x55 in Scandinavia than with all of the other choices combined.

The challenge is really more to find your moose and arrange the shot so that the animal is down someplace where you can retrieve it without needing to build a road, or a barge :)
BD

[Larry Gibson]

The effectiveness of a 50/50 cast .31 cal 210 gr bullet at 2200+ fps on moose just might surprise you and a lot of others. If the range is kept reasonable and you put the bullet into the heart lung then the moose will be dead in short order. You will get decent expansion and excellent penetration. Simply look for a side shot where you can put the bullet where it needs to go and pass on any Texas heart shots. In working up your load clean the barrel every 5 - 7 shots to maintain accuracy. I also suggest a good 50/50 lube like Javelina or one of Lars. I've shot lots of deer and even a couple elk with cast bullets in .30 and .31s and would have no qualms about using such on a moose. You could always have a couple jacketed loads handy to bolster your confidence if needed but I wouldn't worry about the .303 with a 210 gr appropriate cast bullet at 2200 fps not killing a moose.

Larry Gibson

[357maximum]

Personally I have never heard a better excuse to go buy a 35Whelen and a BRP 360-225 mould myself.[smilie=p: I have the hardware but no mooskeses.:sad: I actually bought my 98 Whelen for an eventual moose hunt that WILL happen.....eventually.

The 303 would get er done ...Just do not tell SWMBO that part.:bigsmyl2: My F.I.L has a buddy that use a 308 winnie on em and has yet to be dissapointed.

[Blammer]

I would pick something where a second and third quick follow up shot are easy to do.

that is what I would want, and I've never hunted Moose or ELK.

oh yea, and I'd use my 35 Whelen with the 358009 or the FP version of it. :)

[elk hunter]

Never shot a moose but have shot quite a few elk, some with a muzzle loader. A 50 caliber 400 grain cast conical ahead of 120 grains of FF does the job very well. Can't say that I've ever shot any critter with a 30 caliber cast bullet, but if things work out, I plan on trying my 95 Winchester in 30-03 with a cast bullet on deer this fall.

Good luck on your hunt.

[Doc Highwall]

The last two moose that I shot were with a 30/06 with Hornady 190gr bullets and it took only one shot each. Shot placement with a good bullet will work every time. I practiced a lot with my Cooper model 57M in 22 Lr before the hunt and it was like shooting fish in a barrel when the shot came.

[Drew_CarreyAB]

DK- I am planning on a 45-70 in the future( just ease of casting IMO, one for the MZ and same for the 45-70).
Larry - I haven't chrony'd the loads for the 303, and I am only about half way up the powder charge(max of 24gr I can't remember the powder though) I am presuming you meant "wouldn't" in the last sentence of your post. My lube is a candle wax/vaseline/ATF mix that doesn't leave anything but a shiney bore behind.
357 - I used a .308 for a few years, just decided to improve my game......stalking closer than 80 yards( have had deer as close as 5 yds away and not dropped the hammer.....it was an awesome experience).
Elk Hunter - Were the 400gr's homecast or store bought.....mine drop at .457-.459 and 459-470grains.....I weed them down to a +/- 0.3 grain difference and I actually weigh out my charges.....dropped groups from 4"@100 to around an inch.

[357maximum]

Drew I understand the up close and personal aspect...it just adds something....it is a rush ain't it? I am a ground bound bowhunter @ heart...I get it.:wink: I still need to kill quite a few bucks with a firearm to match my bowkills. Nothing quite like watching port orford cedar dissapear and then seeing steam come out of the hole where it dissapeared. :lol:

Short shots with a 308 work just as well as loooong pokes if your boolit/bullet is up to the task of the extra impact. The man with a 300 superdooperearsplittenloudenboomer does not have to shoot em in the next zipcode just because physics say it may be possible.

If I could kill 2 moose I would pop the first with the Whelen and the second with the 35 remmy just to prove a point to myself....but I am weird that way.:o The third one would likely involve a stick and a string...but seeing as I do not live in moose country and have no plans to move to such a place that is just a "think I would do".

[Drew_CarreyAB]

357 - About every two years I get drawn for bull moose, I am partnering up with a buddy, and we should be able to do a moose every year(me this year, him next year, me the year after....and so on) I might, if it turns out good, turn to a smokepole for all my hunting......Have been kicking it around for a few years now.

[357maximum]

Sounds like an excellent scheme you have going there...congrats.:smile:

Have you ever looked into UnderHammers? Dead simple, and reliable....just toting another one of my obsessions your way.:-P Living vicariously I guess. :lol:

[elk hunter]

DK-
Elk Hunter - Were the 400gr's homecast or store bought.....mine drop at .457-.459 and 459-470grains.....I weed them down to a +/- 0.3 grain difference and I actually weigh out my charges.....dropped groups from 4"@100 to around an inch.

Drew,

The ML bullets were home cast of soft lead, but in 50 caliber. We're limited to bullets not more than 1 1/2 calibers long for ML seasons here and a minimum of 50 caliber for elk and 40 for deer. I don't think a moose would care if the bullet was 45 or 50 caliber if it went through the boiler room.

[Larry Gibson]

Drew_CarreyAB

Larry - I haven't chrony'd the loads for the 303, and I am only about half way up the powder charge(max of 24gr I can't remember the powder though) I am presuming you meant "wouldn't" in the last sentence of your post. That I did, thanks for the "catch".My lube is a candle wax/vaseline/ATF mix that doesn't leave anything but a shiney bore behind. That should be fine as long as it works at higher velocity and the fouling in the bore doesn't harden too much in colder weather to adversely affect the next shots accuracy.

I'd suggest working up a load with H4895 or H4350 under that 210 gr 50/50 alloy bullet. Again, clean the barrel after each 5 shot group to maintain best accuracy as fouling build up will enlarge the groups after 5 or so shots at HV. I usually hunt with a clean bore or a minimal 1 fouler. I figure if I haven't got the critter in 5 shots I might as well go back home or to camp and clean the barrel and reflect on what I am doing wrong:-) With such loads at 2100 -2200+ fps I have killed many a deer and elk with .30, .31 and 8mm cal cartridges.

An example would be the 190 gr GB 311291 (actually should be called a 314291) in my .303, 7.65 Argie or 7.62x54R. When loaded to a velocity was 2150 -2200 fps with medium or slower burning powders accuracy holds 1 1/2 moa for the 1st 5 shots (opens to 2-3 moa if for the next 5 shots are fired or the barrel is not cleaned after the 1st 5 shots). Some have told me I have a lube problem but I have tested numerous lubes with no better results. Those cartridge examples run pretty much true with every .30, .31 and 8mm cartridge especially those with 9 -10" twist barrels. A 200 or so grain cast bullet of that alloy at 2150 - 2200 fps will give excellent terminal ballistics with very good expansion and plenty of penetration out to 200 yards.

The 1st elk I killed was a big ole cow Roosevelt elk at about 50 - 60 yards with a 311041 out of a M94 30-30 Carbine. The velocity was about 2000 fps. The WW cast bullet went in right behind the foreleg and slipped forward through the top of the heart and exited out between the off side leg and the neck. She was down before I levered another round in. But then that was before Al Gore invented the internet so the cow elk wasn't yet aware that she wasn't supposed to die from such a puny bullet in such a puny cartridge with such a puny load. If the moose are reading the internet up your way then maybe you'd better wait for that 45-70 or maybe a 45 Lott ;-)

Larry Gibson

[Rickk]

I have taken lots of moose in the past 34 years here in Alaska. Most were taken with a 30-30. Never had one go more than a few yards. Last one was a 7mm-08. Fell in its tracks. None over 100 yards, though.

[Drew_CarreyAB]

So, now I have made (or thought I had) the choice to use the Muzzleloader.....I am/was looking at the CVA line. Knowing that I am going to use the 466gr bullet, I decided to contact the company(CVA) and see if the MZ could take the pressure of that round.

To whom it may concern:

I am considering on purchasing one of your muzzleloaders and have a question. I am planning on a moose hunt this fall and I cast my own bullets and they come out at .451 caliber and average 466 grains. Will your muzzleloaders handle a round with that much mass? I have used these rounds in other brands of muzzleloaders and have consulted with the manufacterors before using said rounds. Also what is your max grains that can be used?

Thank you for taking the time to read my mail, and hope to hear from you soon.

They're Reply:

We do not recommend that large of bullet and with all lead bullets you should use loose powder as you will not get any accuracy with the pellets.

So I sent:

what would you recommend the maximum grain weight for your muzzleloaders. I mean how big of a round could I use? Also, are the barrels a 1:28"? Thanks for your time.

Reply:

THE 348 GRAIN PowerBelt bullet will take down a moose or a bear, elk ect with a 150 grain charge of Triple 7 pellets.

So did you see what I saw in the replies that caught my eye right off????????? Loose powder recommended....In the second, they recommend pellets??????

So I now am wondering what muzzleloader (cheaper ones) would run these bullets. I have used them in a Tracker 209 and was getting 4" groups and then I started actually weighing the charges and got groups of 1" or less LOL....The only thing I didn't like about the Tracker, the bolt and how hard it was to dig out the spent primer. Your thoughts are welcome good/bad, either way.

[Idaho_Elk_Huntr]

100 grains of powder is plenty. Pick a 300+ grain bullet that shoots fairly accurate and go kill it. I have killed one and my wife took one. Both went down almost instantly

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Well, I am not a moose hunter long on experience, having only taken my once in a life time Ideeeeeho bull and helping with the wife's the next year.

But am appyling for my one cow permit - no luck this year - and have just decided to start hunting with my own cast boolits.

They, moose, seem to me to go down easy, but this is with good "J" bullets that expand well AND hold together.

Cast boolits, well ---------------------

Looking and reading, I decided the best picture seems to develop with big holes.

Now I know others have taken lots of critters with rifles in which the caliber does not begin with "4" but as I said, the picture just seems to develop better with big hunks of lead.

So, I went with a 45/70 and am currently developing loads with a 350gr WFN cast boolit.

I desire not to need or require expansion with my cast slug, so that means I need a larger caliber and a big meplat. That seems to happen best with calibers which begin with a "4 or 5" from everything I can read.

Just an Ol'Coot's opinion with zero experience taking eat'in size critters with a cast boolits.

Hope to change that soon![smilie=w:

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[JJC]

This will not help you choose but FWIW. My wife has taught me see animal shoot animal! As handloaders, casters ect we get to wrapped up in out hobby, all well and good. I hand her a rifle and she loads it and kills big game. She does not care about 270 vs 30 cal, bullet weight, brand or scope setting. While I toil over such things adjust my scope ect she is shooting. She had an elk on the ground way before I did and we were next to each other. Be familiar and confident with your choice and fill the freezer. Good luck

[thx997303]

You might want to look into a little history of the CVA Muzzys before accepting their loads.

I personally wouldn't even buy one.

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on it. If it were easy to get tags and I shot one every year maybe id try a cast rifle load but it would be at least 35 cal and probably bigger. If it were a once in a lifetime hunt id buy or borrow something like an 06 and load it with good 180 jacketed bullets.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

The 303 has plenty of power, close to the 30/06 use what you got, practice . . . experiment/test . . .

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Lloyd, I agree on the "bigger" when it comes to cast boolits on the moose.

The two I have seen go down, my wife's and my, once in a life time Ideeeeeho bulls, went down very easy to "J" bullets.

However, If I should get a cow tag while I'm still able to do so - age creaping up -, the 45/70 will make one leak really bad, from both sides.

As per "age creaping up," when you get to 65+, age no longer creaps up it sprints, rapidly!!!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Old Goat Keeper]

+1 on the 65+ CDOC! lol

Tom

[Pioneer2]

I use a 6.5x55 and 160gr Hornady's on moose .Always an in and out hole regardless of angle.I live 12 KM south of the original poster........Harold

[saz]

The moose in my avitar was taken with a 495gr conical out of my muzzleloader. Slow moving chunk of lead is absolutely devistating on game. You wouldnt believe the penetration. Do not worry about the MV from the front stuffer- sheer mass of the boolit will do all the work.

If you go with the 303, I would use a good j-word boolit. My go to high power is a 35 whelen with 225gr barnes TSX, and has been a one hitter quitter every time. If it is a once in a lifetime hunt and it is not a firearm specific tag, take the 303 and fill the freezer. Once that is full, use the ML.

[troy_mclure]

My dad has taken 2 moose with his 7mm mag. Both shots were under 50yds. He said he is taking his ml next time he goes.
Irrc that it is legal to take moose in Maine with .22wmr?

[35Whelen]

Pick your shot and try for double lungs.....nothing on the face of the earth lives without it's lungs. Moose are fairly easy to kill if they don't know you are there. Slip one in behind the shoulder and take out the lungs, he will be down in under 100 yds. Let him know you are there, and they can be a different storey and suck up a tremendous amount of lead......although if you make the first one count and do both lungs, he ain't going very far at all. Just don't rush things and take a shot you will regret. My favored moose round is my trusty 35 Whelen. Nothing ever failed to drop from it. Just waiting for my new 358009 mould to come in. Good luck, straight shooting

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Interesting 35Whelen,

I thought the two moose I have been involved in went down REALLY!!!!!! easy.

Maybe this explains it.

CDOC

[Screwbolts]

I believe the Moose hunt is history by over a year post 26 was written 8-7-10.

Would be nice to know what he carried and harvested.


Ken

[MT Chambers]

As a fellow Kanadian, you know that more Moose have been killed with .303s then all other rounds combined...with cast bullets I would choose an accurate bullet with a flat nose, and have at 'er.

[maglvr]

.303 Brit. has likely taken more Canadian moose than all other calibers combined.
If you can't kill it with a .303 you likely couldn't kill it with anything else either.
Shoot 1 foot below the hump, then get out your knife ;)

[Grizz Henry]

I recall reading many years ago that Charles Sheldon, explorer and adventurer and author of "The Wolves of Mount Mckinley" shot every big game animal in North America with a .257 Roberts. If the .257 Roberts with a 120 Gr. boolit will do the trick on moose then the 303 should with no problem. Shot placement is obviously quite important.
I shot a NH cow with the 03A3 30-06 & a hand loaded 180 Gr. CJ & 4831 - went down in its tracks. Another was an 870 lb Maine bull shot with my 515 Gr. , pan lubed C Boolit with a case full of 2F black powder in an 1869 50-70 trapdoor @ 75 yds. Bull took 3 steps & dropped.

Grizz

[10 ga]

Drew... ML all the way, find you a Savage MLII. That is the go to ML of today. I have 2 and they'll take anything in NA. Go on over to "dougs message board" and learn about the MLII. As for the .303 shooting cast boolits, should do the job. Heck, the indians have taken a whole pile of moose with just a dirty thirty. Put it in the ribs and they'll die pretty quick. 10 ga
Check the link, was a moose question on the board recently!

http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi

[McDerry]

.303 Brit. has likely taken more Canadian moose than all other calibers combined.
If you can't kill it with a .303 you likely couldn't kill it with anything else either.
Shoot 1 foot below the hump, then get out your knife ;)

Ditto. Moose are quite possibly the easiest big game species to kill in north america. Big dumb and no natural predators short of an 18 wheeler. The hump is an extension of the vertibrae over the shoulder. The spinal cord is right there and its large. You can put most anything into that area and drop a moose. 30-30's account for alot of moose here in Maine.


22wmr is legal for deer in maine, not moose.

[FRJ]

I have killed one moose and never want to repeat that fiasco!!!!!That said I would advise you to take a really hard look at the Lyman Great Plains Rifle in 54 caliber. Use a patched round ball and be amazed at the results. Lots of people have found the PRB to be more effective than bullets. If you really must Lyman also makes fast twists in their other M/L guns and their service is great!!FRJ

[1Shirt]

I agree with Larry's #6 response! Lots of moose have been taken with 30-30, 303Sav., 300Sav, etc. Some with cast, probably more with Jacketed. The key is range and blt. placement with the proper blt. If I were hunting with either the 303, or the ML, would hope to be within 50 yds or less, (25 would be about ideal) and for a broad side lung shot. Tend to agree with who ever said, that it would be good to have the 303 capacity for rapid follow up shots. Think is was either Raurk or Taylor who said that for shooting elephants, you need to get as close as you can, then get 5 yds closer. Don't think that is bad advice for moose either. Am not a proponent of the very long shots on big game.
1Shirt!

[Poisonslinger]

My moose story:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=131949

Page 2 is the 'story'.

I am a believer in the 'slow lead' theory too. I do not have tons of moose experience, but have put more than a few elk on the ground with 45-70s, 40-50 (short range), 40-70 and even a 40-90. I shot my last with a 35 Whelen.

I’ll add to my story a picture of the slug I recovered… end to end on a 5 year old cow; lots of penetration - about 5.5 feet.

Round: 50-90, 550 grains of pure lead, 90 gr of straight black (Swiss 1.5).
Good luck with whatever you choose!

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc199/poisonslinger/IMAG0049.jpg


http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc199/poisonslinger/IMAG0168.jpg

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc199/poisonslinger/IMAG0171.jpg

[Just Duke]

Very cool!