Here we go again!!!

[docone31]

I am looking for data for Pyrodex P to use in the .45 S&W.
It seems everyone is useing smokeless. I use Blue Dot which is not listed for the Schofield cartridge.
Anybody got any info?
I appreciate.

[Hickory]

According to Hodgon's "Basic Muzzleloading Manual" bottom of page 8, and the top of page 9, it says this about loading pyrodex on cartridges cases; QUOTE, "The mechanics of loading metallic cartridges are quite simple, but there is one requirement of the modern shooter that can not be overlooked.
The modern loader must set aside his knowledge of loading with smokless powders and embrace the ways of years gone by. It must always be remembered that blackpowder and Pyrodex are very inefficent powders by todays standards. The methods described here are consistent with good loading practices for Pyrodex and should be followed without requard to smokeless loading practices."

"Pyrodex works best in straight walled cases, but works satisfactory in bottle neck cartridges as long as our warning is observed."

"WARNING Never allow an air space in any cartridge loaded with Pyrodex. The loading density must be 100% by light compression.100% loading density may be accomplished in two ways:
1) The case is filled with powder to a level that will provide light compression of the powder (1/16" to 1/8") when the bullet is seated.
2) In straight walled cases, filler wads may be used to reduce powder charge.

There is a little more but this is the jist of it.

[docone31]

I did kinda figuire.
The .45 S&W is definately straight walled. I suspect I would scoop the case, then compress the load with the casting.
Sounds good to me.

[Firebricker]

Find that correct size Lee dipper they work perfect for that. FB

[docone31]

I am going to get Lee dies. I am hoping it comes with at least power charges for it.
I have the full set of Lee dippers.
They really work for me.
I am looking forward to this.

[Dale53]

I have loaded a bushel basket of .45 Colts with Pyrodex P. Pyrodex is approved for powder measures (black is only approved for CERTAIN powder measures).

I run them through my Dillon 550B (Dillon was NOT in favor of that - but that was before Pyrodex was cleared for powder measures). At any rate, I drop the charge so that it is compressed 1/16" when seating the bullet. It works VERY well, shoots VERY well, and is a serious load. I get nearly 1000 fps with the Lyman 250 gr 452644 bullet cast 30/1 lead/tin and sized to .452" in a long barreled revolver. The bullet is lubed with Emmert's Home Mix (SPG works as well). In my Bisley Vaquero I can shoot 70-75 rounds without problems from fouling. Then, after that number I clean the revolver if I need to shoot more. Takes five minutes or so with a good black powder solvent.

The .45 S&W should work exactly the same way (it just takes less powder, recoils less, offers less velocity, and should shoot with even more pleasure:mrgreen:).

I decap my cases at the range, and drop them in a gallon milk jug filled 3/4ths with water with a few squirts of Dawn Dishwashing liquid. By the time I get home, the case cleaning is well along. I rinse them well with hot tap water, empty the cases into a colander and shake excess water off. Then I drop them into my large Dillon vibratory case cleaner and tumble the cases. They are ready to load (and look like new) after tumbling.

Dale53

[44man]

Watch Pyrodex. It NEEDS some compression but if you compress too much it will shoot chunks out of the gun to burn in the grass. Not good in dry conditions.
It is also harder to clean out of a gun then BP and will rust a gun fast.
I would try Swiss FFFG in the gun.

[Calamity Jake]

"It is also harder to clean out of a gun then BP and will rust a gun fast."

Moose Milk cleans it out real good!!!!

[Dale53]

As a matter that may be of interest:

I have shot cases of black powder and a good bit of Pyrodex (but certainly a lesser amount than black powder). I have always used home made "Friendship Speed Juice for an EXCELLENT black powder solvent. In my opinion and with talking to hundreds of competitors at the National Muzzle Loading Matches at Friendship, IN (just 45 minutes from my house), it is one of the best BP solvents available. It is made simply by mixing one pint each of:

Murphy's Oil Soap
Rubbing Alcohol
Hydrogen Peroxide

Further, I had the great black powder industry consultant, Bill Knight run an informal test on Friendship Speed Juice. He was impressed with it and gave his personal blessing to my continued use of this home made product.

There have been some criticism's of this product, claiming that their guns rusted after use. After questioning some of them, I learned that they had not used a preservative after use. That is misuse of this "product". IT leaves the gun chemically clean and if no preservative oil is used, then it WILL rust as it has been cleaned of anything to protect it. It is NOT a problem if a good gun oil is used afterwards.

I normally use Friendship Speed Juice to clean the interior and exterior of the gun/guns from any black powder fouling (or Pyrodex fouling). After wiping dry, then I use a preservative oil (Break Free, Birchwood Casey's Sheath, or my favorite, home mix "Ed's Red"). After that I do not have ANY problems with rust or corrosion. I'm betting you won't, either. Murphy's Oil soap is available at your local super market and the rubbing alcohol and Hydrogen Peroxide is available at your drug store. They are very inexpensive.

My favorite black powder is Swiss (2F for the .45 Colt revolver). It is the most consistent black powder I have used.

One caveat - Hydrogen Peroxide can be damaged by exposure to light (and so can the mixture). After mixing, I fill the DARK bottle that the Peroxide came in for range use and keep the rest in a dark cabinet to protect it from light. Then, I keep filling the dark bottle. That way, the mixture will be good for the duration.

Dale53

[9.3X62AL]

Another strong prompt for Dale's recommendation of Friendship Speed Juice. I have used this for close to 20 years, and it cleans BP fouling RIGHT NOW. I follow with fresh water, then patch/towel dry, then apply preservative. Not a hint of rust on any of the many guns I've used with BP.

[44man]

All of those cleaners are great, even Birchwood Casey BP cleaner works fine. But Pyrodex has to be all removed from the steel.
Sheath is great but for Pyrodex, the best I found is LPS-3.
If you use an inferior protectant, the bore will rust.
BP can be all washed out with cold water but Pyrodex is tenacious. It takes three times the patches.

[Dale53]

I might mention that when using black powder in my muzzle loaders, I wipe every shot with a DAMP patch (dampened with NAPA water soluble oil 10/1 water/oil). This gives you consistent barrel conditioning and excellent accuracy for a whole days match. I have tried wiping every five shots and it DOES work well and I seem to get excellent results but if the competition is tough, then wiping every shot gives me a bit of extra confidence. When I say "wipe", I mean once down and out with a DAMP (not wet) patch. I soak my patches in the NAPA (some call this Moose Milk), then squeeze them between two boards in a vise to get all of the excess mixture out. The patches ARE merely damp and then do not require a dry patch afterward wiping. You must then keep the patches in a tight lid jar to keep them from drying out. A "Tucks" jar is the perfect size and shape for this ("Tucks" are butt wipes - those who have small children should know...).


When the match is over, I use a small piece of rubber between the hammer and nipple (with a cap lock) or a wood plug in the flash hole (flint lock) and merely fill the barrel with Friendship Speed Juice. I let it sit for a minimum of 10 minutes and a maximum of 15 minutes (by the clock), pour it out, then up and down with a sloppy wet patch a couple of times. This cleans the entire flash channel in both types of actions. Then a couple or three dry patches. I then use a wet patch with "Ed's Red" up and down inside (again, this pumps solvent laden air through out the flash channel). Wipe off the outside carefully with the wet patch and you are good to go.

When using corrosive ammo or black powder, I believe in the Army maxim to go back two or three days later and run a wet patch through the inside just to "be on the safe side".

Ed's Red neutralizes any possible chance of leaving a bit of fouling inside or out.

I also make it a practice of removing the nipple after cleaning (I keep in an empty cap box) and immediately unplug the flash hole in the flintlock. This allows air to circulate through the bore and flash channel insuring that no moisture is left inside to cause damage.

I had occasion to unbreech my caplock after two or three years of extensive match use. The entire flash channel looked like new (as did the bore).

The cleaning regimen discussed here sounds like a tedious process. Other than waiting for the solvent to dissolve (yes, DISSOLVE) the fouling, it only takes about five minutes. When I shoot a match all day, I am TIRED, and certainly am not up for a long cleaning regimen at home after a hard day on the range. This eliminates ALL of that aggravation and when I arrive home I am FINISHED.

That's a good feeling and I can relax and have that "cool one":drinks:

The Friendship, Indiana National Range is in a creek valley and it is like shooting next to a crawdad hole (very damp and hot during the Nationals). If a system works there it should work everywhere.


Dale53

[waksupi]

I have been told that removing the nipples from a caplock at every cleaning is a bad idea. Apparently it leads to excess thread wear. I only own one caplock, and use some anti-seize grease on the threads.

[Dale53]

waksupi;
I have been doing this (removing the nipple every cleaning) for over forty years without issue. So, I guess this is just something that we'll have to agree to disagree.

I DO use anti-seize on the nipple threads and I do NOT over tighten.

Dale53

[Maven]

waksupi;
I have been doing this (removing the nipple every cleaning) for over forty years without issue. So, I guess this is just something that we'll have to agree to disagree. I DO use anti-seize on the nipple threads and I do NOT over tighten. ---Dale53


I've been doing the same as Dale 53 on both revolvers and rifles with nary a problem. The only difference is that I use either ATF or white lithium grease, whichever is handy, on the threads.

[44man]

Did you know 50-50 anti freeze and water is also a great cleaner and prevents rust?