uberti sharps/ pedersoli barrel... what pressure limits?

[kennisondan]

Hi : I found out the prior owner did not shnoot the sharps I have now except twice with factory ammunition : the hornady leverevolution rounds, IIRC.
No bullets at the gun show for bpcr fun, so I am going to order some to get started with, BP, etc.
My question : what kind of pressure is the sharps replica suitable for ? I was tempted to shoot a few jacketed just to have the chance to shoot it without more time passing but was not comfortable with shooting the leverevolution and was not too keen on shooting the remington 405 standaerd loading for the price charged for theml over the counter...
If I was to plink with some jacketed on occasions when I am not loading up my blackpowder loads behind a 500 grainer, what kind of presssures would be OK ? I was kind of thinking that on occasions I may want to shoot something lighter and cheaprer like a 240 300 gr. pill instead of over 500..
My thoughts right now are build the 500 - 535 postell or creedmore/ semi spitzer for my long range learning and fun shoots... (I am not sure how that will work with a deer on the receiveing end, but imagine it cannot be bad ).. but for my short range work and for just shooting some at a hundred yards and under.. and for hunting.. I may go lighter and I may go smokeless or at least am thinking about that option as well.. for hunting I may choose to use a load that would not be a good 600 yard competition load or a 1000 yard load.. just a mere 200 yards with open sights on a deer mignt be all the challenge I want, who knows.??
So if I grabbed up a book to load up some lighter bullets smokeless, cast or not, what kind of pressure should I try to stay under ? I find the way this is treated in the little manuals and such confusing in a way, not impossible just confusing.
It is possible that I will just find a cast load to start with and shoot everything with that one weight and load for a while, but it is possible I will want to shoot some other loads and even smokeless behind a 350 gr. cast for a play around deer black bear or hog load...
is the pressure around 18000cup or more like 26000 cup ? I am not going to try to blow it up nor pack it over the top to make it what iit is not... I am pretty conservative and am better at judging the arc of the bullets that are going 1000 -1100fps than faster like 1500fps...
I also would not want to use a manufactured bullet that woulde cause harm to the gun.
I was given a box of new mfrd ammo marked only 45 70 1650 fps.... and another of the lever evolution boxes.. will I have to just pull them down, sell them off, give them away or can I empty the casings the good old fashioned way while awaiting payday so I can get the stufff to make up my own bullets.? I could shoot what I have store bought, whip up some jacketed with the smokeless powder I already have on hand; and by the time I am done playing with that : I will have chosen paid for and ordered up some big boolits and will likely never go back to the other stuff... I do not shoot any jacketed in my big pistol sixguns though I have been known to empty some 44 mag brass loudly while plinking to get them ready for reloading withn some stout weighted hard cast lead. lol..
So what else besides the black powder I will have to order up etc will this thing shoot ? ?
thanks
dan kennison

[Tom-ADC]

Mine say's 29,000 C.U.P. max..

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I do not have my copy of Ken Waters Reloading guide here in Peru but he lists his opinion on the relative strength of actions. Someone here will have that info available.
But the bottom line is there still is inherent weakness as to the design no matter when it was built or with what new steel blends.
Case head thrust on the breach is the real culprit and is what I can to be concerned about.

[freedom475]

You will be fine with just about any factory loading in the Pedersoli.

My favorite Powder for My Pedersoli is Varget.... with a 50gr. load it will push a 405 to over 1700fps and never go over 21,000. I have shot 1000's of these. This is a very light load, real easy and fun to shoot.

Varget will push the 300gr over 2000fps without going over 24,000.

Both of these are loads for the trapdoor so it should be just fine for the lite loads you are wanting to shoot.

Your Pedersoli 74' is VERY strong[smilie=1: and you will have no problems with what you want to do by using any/all the trapdoor loads in the Hodgdon manual. I believe the guns will easily handle any of the levergun loading data as well, but the recoil makes them just no fun to shoot and that kind of misses the point of the Sharps... I too prefur to master the "Rainbow" of a 1100fps load then trashing myself and my gun with the fast movers.. still not fast enough to get them to shoot flat:-D

[montana_charlie]

You didn't say that your rifle is a 45/70, but I will assume it is.
Any 45/70 ammunition sold to the general public must be safe in the weakest action it is likely to be fired in. That would be the Trapdoor.

Sharps rifles will handle trapdoor loads all day long.

If you really plan to shoot copper jackets, be sure to clean out all of the copper fouling before shooting lead bullets. All of it...

Since you bought a pre-owned rifle, you may not have a manual for it.
This covers the Sharps, as well as others from Pedersoli.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/newsEn/Manuals_ManualsEn.pdf

CM

[Tom-ADC]

Be carefull there is some not much but some factory ammo that is not Trapdoor safe and maybe even Sharps safe. One of the manufactures does list this as +P, it is intended for the Marlins.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I talked about the relative strength of single shot rifles on this site some time ago. To start with, the Sharps and its copies use a sliding breach block that is far stronger than a '98 Mauser and its copies. It ought to be . It it has four times more locking lug area. Modern howitzers use the same breach block except the block slide horizontally instead of vertically There was an article in THE SINGLE SHOT NEWS some years ago about the rifle action that Dupont used for pressure testing cartridges in their development. It was a Winchester 1885 with a very short barrel. When Dupont went to a more modern method the action was given to an employee and there were pictures of it in the magazine article. Now the Sharps and the Winchester high wall use an action that is basically the same. The main difference being the placement of the hammer. I should point out that the Ruger number 1 and 3 use a similar action except the hammer is inside the breach block.I have seen Sharps Borchardts that were chambered for hot .22s like the .219 zipper improved and they didn't seem to suffer any ill effects. The latest those rifles could have been made was the early 1880s. I am sure Pedersoli pressure test their rifles with some very warm charges, but I can see why they are reluctant to Publish such information because there will always be some nut who will figure , if they can do it ,so can I. I have a Pedersoli target rifle and my favorite load is 15 grains of unique and a 350 grain bullet. It isn't because I think it couldn't stand much stiffer loads but rather that I couldn't. I have a low tolerance for Newtons third law of motion. I am not writing all this to encourage somebody to pour a 45-70 case full of Bulls eye and let fly. I just wanted to dispel a myth about the strength of the Sharps action. Have you taken a close look at the Marlin action . It has a much smaller locking lug than the Sharps. These remarks I have made apply only to the Sharps and its copies and not the Ballard, rolling block, Aydt, Hopkins & Allen and trap door Springfield.

[kennisondan]

thank you posters : I am pleasantly reassured of the strength of the gun. I have had and shot the 30 inch cowboy 1895 marlin and the ten or so in the magazine kind of tamed down some pretty stout recoil, and allowed it to swing like a well balanced but heavy shotgun.. I liked it but made room for another love in its place. lol. I have had the ruger 1 anniversary edition very pretty, with some loads it was way more ready for additional lead and powder than I was .. I found it could be brutal especially when I first shot it without scoping it first.
I am likely going to have two loads : one for deer and one for fun shooting competition with heavier cast boolits. the deer load may be jacketed or may be just a lighter harder cast pushed a bit faster.. I just may have to load some up to shoot the thing, too.. the gun show had no black powder and no suitable cast for BRCR either. I am trying to get a little ahead on some money barriers, so I am going try to score 50 -100 of one of the well liked heavi boolits and during the week I am going to pick up a few locally available projectiles, depending on what I find.. I think that I may have given away just about all my 45 -70 stuff when my brother got into it and I got out. lol.. now I am back in. He has a Buffalo rifle and has been shooting some loads I had for my gun and some of the lever revolution jobs..
I really appreciate the info. I know that everyone is quite aware that what makes this great sport continue to be fairly affordable is that is grows, keeping folks in business and manufacturers producing . and used guns on the market sometimes too..
the advice removing the questions in part is what makes it work.. good job to each and all..
and heartfelt thanks.. I am gonna wear this gun out.. lol..
first I gotta get sights I can see through though.. lol.. eyes seem like they are 1874 vintage though a little newer ..
special thanks
for the information on the pedersolis.. I di dnot get a manual..

dan kennison

[SharpsShooter]

For deer, the Lyman 457122 is a good choice. I have used the 457125 successfully as well.

Cast both of 40:1 and 60gr of Goex Cartridge grade behind either will do anything you desire for hunting. If i read correctly, you are trying to get past those financial hurdles that plague us all from time to time. Shoot me a PM and I'll see what I have on the shelves. Won't cost ya a dime, I just can't bear the thought of a condom coated boolit being fired in a sharps.

SS

[kennisondan]

well sharpshooter.. you did something there.. I am temporarily speechless. Does not happen too often.. lol..
pm sent..
all the help and support is overwhelming, that is all that I can say...
gonna sell my condom cartridges.. lol...
dk

[stephenj]

if im remembering correctly pedersoli proofs thier rifles at around 33,000 cup , that being said ive had good luck with aa5744 and 3031 in a shiloh and would probly recomend the aa5744 as my personal choice , i would also take a bit of care loading smokless and slowly work up my loads , no matter how strong some will say the sharps action is there is more that can happen than a catastrphic failure , pierced primers and a facefull of hot gas isnt exactly my idea of fun nor is having a rifle explode in my face , there is only 1 was to find out exactly how strong your particular rifle is , go to the pedersoli web sight and find out for your own piece of mind what they recomend as safe pressures and stay within them ,

[Freightman]

well sharpshooter.. you did something there.. I am temporarily speechless. Does not happen too often.. lol..
pm sent..
all the help and support is overwhelming, that is all that I can say...
gonna sell my condom cartridges.. lol...
dk
Should not be a surprise on this board as these are true gentleman of honor for the most part. He beat me to it but if you need to try a 500gr I will send you a few PM me also.

[6.5 mike]

kennisondan, hi & welcome. I'm new to shooting a sharps also, try 25 grs 5744 under a lee 405 gr fb, mine are paper patched, w-w case, w-w primer. First 3 shots were 1&1/2 in with 2 in one ragged hole at a 100 yds (thanks bullshot). It's a little dirty but cleans right out. This is in a pedersoli 45-70.

[kennisondan]

thanks to all I am hoping that I can test then move to either casting or buy a few before starting to cast... I am quite excited about it all.. I love assembling my six gun loads with unique and a few other things, of course for fun, but this black powder combines the single shot, handloading and a blast from the past as well..
and I hear they are pretty effective.. I would imagine that if a 300 gr 45 colt cast is as effective as it is that a 500 plus would not be lacking.. lol

call me optimistic..

thanks again to each and every one of you I will be glad when I can be helpful to others..
dk
dk

[Sharps Aholic]

Pedersoli 45-70 Quigley, Penn cast 350gr RNFPBB(.459" dia), 47.5 gr IMR 4064, 1475 fps, one large hole under 1"
Varget 2nd best, 48gr, 1200 fps, 1.25" group

[knifemaker]

I have a Pedersoli 1874 sharps. When working up loads for it, I contacted Pedersoli and requested information on their load limits. They advise me that to stay within their warranty to keep all handoads at or under 29,000 CUP.
I also believed the proof load was 38,000 CUP for the 1874 Sharps. They advised me that they had tested the rifle to around 80,000 CUP before the breech block was set back 3 thousands, but held together.
The rifle is a very strong action and if you stay within the 29,000 CUP rating you will not void your warranity on the rifle. I can say that you will not shoot over a couple rounds of 405 gr. bullets loaded up to that 29.000 CUP as it will kick you like a mule and rattle your teeth.

[Old Goat Keeper]

Can anyone educate a newby on whether there is a figure/formula to convert CUP to PSI? And I wonder if the same presure limit applies to my Taylor's Litle Sharps in 38-55? The LS is made by Chaippa of Italy.

Tom

[felix]

They both measure the same thing, but each tool is enough different as to not make the values anywhere near the same. Peak pressure itself is not important, but the duration of the peak pressure is. The CUP is actually a better single measure because it is slower. But even better would be several PSI measurements down the entire barrel. ... felix

[curdog]

I shoot a 405 hollow base, loaded with 23.5 grains of IMR sr-4759 and its a pleasure to shoot. I think its about 15,700 c.u.p. This load shoots in my Shiloh Sharps rough rider.

[cajun shooter]

You need to find a source for some BP. Have you tried to find any ML clubs in your area? I am sure that someone close has BP. If you order the 5lb lot from any dealer the Haz-Mat and shipping is more than the powder. That rifle should be used with BP for full effect and fun. Call your Wildlife oiffice and see if they know of any close BP clubs or at least some one who shoots the real powder. You don't need any J-bullets to hunt with. Springfield Slim on our forum sells some BP bullets. Find his web site of Marks Leather. Your 1874 action will withstand any load made today but it is more fun with the BP that has less pressure.Do some hard searching before you give up and use the fake stuff.