Looking for Whelen Loads

[bstarling]

I'm looking for some loads for 250 grain GC boolets in my Whelen. I have found a few, but not so much for the powders I have. My current inventory is H4350, H4198, RL15, RL19, Unique, and some too fast pistol powders. What I'd like is to be able to push the lead around 2000 to maybe 2500 fps. I really don't want to buy more powder since I have a plenty for most everything else I load. Anyone that has a load to share will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bill

[GBertolet]

Of the powders you listed, I think RL15 would show the greatest promise for this cartridge.

[Barstooler]

If you want to use Accurate powders you can download the data here:

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/358Cal(9.09mm)/35%20Whelen%20pages%20312%20to%20315.pdf

Personally, I think getting accurate 2500 fps is going to be a stretch with CBs in the Whelen

Barstooler

[357maximum]

Personally, I think getting accurate 2500 fps is going to be a stretch with CBs in the Whelen

Barstooler

[smilie=b:Do you actually own a Whelen?:groner:

I get sub MOA with the BRP 360-225 @ 2500-2700 all the time with H4350/H414 (pick one) I did not go that fast with the 250's but the reason was that they made my head/shoulder hurt when the speeds got over 2200, not because the accuracy suffered at higher velocity.........i b a WUSS;)

I have chosen to hunt ( VERY SUCCESSFULLY BTW) with sub MOA accuracy and the BRP 360-225's but I do not hunt where the critters are likely to kill me back. IMHO the 250+ grainers are a waste of lead, but all I hunt is sub 200lb whitetails. I quite simply do not need loads that will dicombobulate my brain for the critters I persue. I have actually woe'ed my 225 gr loads back speedwise to 2500 and toughened my alloy slightly for fears of killing whitetails too dead if I happened to strike an edible portion of the brown antlered things after a particular experience last fall on a whitetail doe where I came real close to ruining meat due to placement and excessive speed.

DO NOT CUT CAST TOO SHORT..............IT CAN DO ALOT MORE THAN ALOT OF FOLKS WILL EVER KNOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE.

[bstarling]

I built a Whelen last spring and have been working on some loads off and on since. Most of what I've shot have been 200 grain J-bullets behind 60 grains of RL 15 or loaded down handgun bullets. The full house 200 grain kick right smartly, but haven't dislocated a shoulder or anything. I haven't gotten into casting yet, but intend doing so. I recently bought some hard cast 250 gr boolets from Midway and am trying to figure out what to do with them. I really don't need a full house load to kill the dog size deer down my way. I really don't need much of a gun, my 223 would work just fine, they are small. All joking aside, one of 150 lbs is considered huge in these parts.

On with the Whelen, I do love this rifle. It is a blast to shoot and that is for me the biggest part. Hunting is just another excuse to shoot it. Some of my efforts to get to it were written up in the gunsmithing pages on this site. It all started with the idea of making a 35 Rem as a change barrel on a small ring Mauser and finally evolved into a 35 Whelen fixed barrel. Look at 35 Remington Small Ring part one and II.

By the way, 357Max, what did you use for a starting load with the 225 and the H4350.? I will be most happy getting the 250 grain running along at 22, 2300 fps.

Thanks for any input,


Bill:drinks:

[Shuz]

17g of Unique and a 208g cast boolit RCBS 35-200 gives me 1655fps. Hope this helps.

[bstarling]

Thanks Shuz. I have thought about using the Unique for some loads. I did load some GC 160gr boolets with 14.5 gr of Red Dot and they shot well. I wonder how high the Unique would go and how quickly it would get to max load. It is a pretty fast powder, but not so fast as the Red Dot. I have enjoyed this rifle more than any I've ever had. It's just plain fun to shoot.

Bill

[Barstooler]

[smilie=b:Do you actually own a Whelen?:groner:

I get sub MOA with the BRP 360-225 @ 2500-2700 all the time with H4350/H414 (pick one) I did not go that fast with the 250's but the reason was that they made my head/shoulder hurt when the speeds got over 2200, not because the accuracy suffered at higher velocity.........i b a WUSS;)

I have chosen to hunt ( VERY SUCCESSFULLY BTW) with sub MOA accuracy and the BRP 360-225's but I do not hunt where the critters are likely to kill me back. IMHO the 250+ grainers are a waste of lead, but all I hunt is sub 200lb whitetails. I quite simply do not need loads that will dicombobulate my brain for the critters I persue. I have actually woe'ed my 225 gr loads back speedwise to 2500 and toughened my alloy slightly for fears of killing whitetails too dead if I happened to strike an edible portion of the brown antlered things after a particular experience last fall on a whitetail doe where I came real close to ruining meat due to placement and excessive speed.

DO NOT CUT CAST TOO SHORT..............IT CAN DO ALOT MORE THAN ALOT OF FOLKS WILL EVER KNOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE.



I built my first 35 Whelen in 1966 seven years before you were born.

CB loads I shoot in it are Lyman 358315 204gr and a special order Mt Mold in 280 gr.

I don't load CBs in it above 2300 fps. Used mostly for elk hunting now. If I want 2500 fps I use 250 gr Speers, but get similar energy from the 280 gr Mt. Mold at 2200 to 2300 fps.

Sorry you have a challenged recoil tolerance kid.:violin:

Barstooler

[357maximum]

By the way, 357Max, what did you use for a starting load with the 225 and the H4350.?

Thanks for any input,


Bill:drinks:


Start at 52, and go from there. I personally use 54 to 57 for varying degrees of performance in my Shaw barreled mauser.




I built my first 35 Whelen in 1966 seven years before you were born.

Sorry you have a challenged recoil tolerance kid.:violin:

Barstooler


My point was simply not to pigeon hole cast into the slowzone....that's it...no malcontent on my part.....easy there old timer.[smilie=s:

Trying to stop backhoe buckets with your head/neck/shoulder and breaking mirrors off from passing pickups with your shoulder while doing your job will have consequences...it is what it is, and it can always be worse. Do not be sorry on my account.[smilie=s:

[Barstooler]

Well like it or not CBs are slow compared to jacketed bullets. I accept that and still enjoy casting (started in 1964)

Fast CBs (e.g. between 2500 and 3000 fps) are possible but have to be hard, brittle, and short (e.g. low ballistic coefficient) to prevent obturation etc.

There are diminishing returns in usability for hunting big game with CBs IMHO above 2300 fps. Sorry thats life. :cry:

Also above 2300 fps you still get "normal" throat and barrel wear due to hot gases, so I just don't bother. If I want to go above 2300 fps for long range and/or speed I just shoot jacketed bullets. Not meant to "slight" the CB world but varmiting or doing antelope with CBs at 400 yards is just not my cup of tea.

On the other hand I am willing to use the Elmer Keith approach and take heavy for caliber CBs that perform well, will expand and hold together going through an animal's shoulder and deliver similar energy as a jacketed bullet. Thus my 220 gr 30 caliber mold for my 30-40 and 30-06, my 250gr mold for my 338-06, and my 280 gr in the Whelen.

But there are limits. Longest distance I ever killed game with the Whelen was 325 yards and that was not with CBs and was with a peep sight when my vision was better. 300 yards is pretty well pressing the limit for a Whelen or my 338-06 so if I hunt "long range" now days I bring my 338 RUM. Now that SOB has some recoil.:veryconfu

I just don't get the "stop backhoe buckets with your head/neck/shoulder and breaking mirrors off from passing pickups with your shoulder while doing your job will have consequences."

I don't usually shoot 100 rounds of centerfire at a single setting and if I do I bring several rifles (some kick, some don't), and I always practice from "field positions" so it is not just leaning into the rifle across a bench. I never had trouble with felt recoil from the Whelen. It could be good stock fit (I make my own) or maybe the fact that I was just a dumb A-10 pilot who thinks anything below a GAU-8 30mm is a pea shooter -- just don't know. I submit that anybody except maybe a self admitted WUSS (I can't believe you said that. The general defenition is "A weak or ineffectual person") can do 20 rounds of 250 gr 35 Whelens at 2500 fps shooting off hand at a target 100 to 200 yards away.

You seem to "know it all" but most reloaders I know (including myself) fit the same catagory. That does not detract from the fact that you are running a good forum.

Best to you and wish you continued success with your Whelen.

As to bstarling's original request. Go here and buy yourself this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Reloading-Manual-Whelen-Caliber/dp/B002H62L5C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279702684&sr=1-1

Also get yourself a Lyman #49 Manual and check out the 35 Whelen.

It is a great gun. Started as a wildcat (like mine) with a 1:10 twist, but realize that if you have a "modern" (e.g. domesticated) Whelen the 1:16 twist it may not stabalize bullets above 250. Worst decision Remington ever made. :cry:

Barstooler

[bstarling]

Thanks guys for the info. From what I am gathering the H4350 and RL15 load up pretty much the same in this round. I think I will start with something in the neighborhood of 50-52 grains of either behind the 250 gr GCboo and take it from there. I have been loading 200 gr RN jacketed over 60 grains of RL15 and they work nicely. I suspect I could go higher, but really see no reason to do so. I did order the Load Book for the Whelen, thanks Barstooler.

Bill

[felix]

Personally, I would start with your condom loads, and work down with those powders in particular using hard boolits sized as condoms. ... felix

[Barstooler]

Thanks guys for the info. From what I am gathering the H4350 and RL15 load up pretty much the same in this round. I think I will start with something in the neighborhood of 50-52 grains of either behind the 250 gr GCboo and take it from there. I have been loading 200 gr RN jacketed over 60 grains of RL15 and they work nicely. I suspect I could go higher, but really see no reason to do so. I did order the Load Book for the Whelen, thanks Barstooler.

Bill

4198 tends to be good for reduced velocity loads.

My Whelen likes Reloader 15 and IMR 4895. Other Whelens often prefer IMR 4320 as a favorite powder. Have fun.

Barstooler

[JesterGrin_1]

It might be worth your time to go pick up the new Handloader Mag on the stands now.

I wish I had the magazine in my hand right now but I left it at work lol. But the author talks about the .33 and 35. And spends a bit of time talking about loads and the 35 Whelen and how the loads have changed over the years. As in the FPS went down over the years. But lightly touches on the newer twist rate for the Rem which is a 1-16 where as back in the day the 35 Whelen was a 1-12 twist rate to shoot the heavy bullets. But there are many that found a happy middle ground with the 1-14 twist. That will do both the lighter bullets and the 295Gr ones well.

I wish I could give more info but I am in the middle of my build of a 35 Whelen from a Marlin XL-7 with a BOYD'S Ross FT Thumb Hole stock in Pepper and the Midway A&B 35 Whelen barrel in heavy mag that was made by Shaw. Right now I am waiting to cut the pillars now that the epoxy has dried lol. Then to bed the action and make sure the barrel is free floated. This is the first rifle of any kind that I have had built. And I did a bunch of looking before I decided on the Ole 35 Whelen. :)

So I am looking for all of the info I can find. :)

But as 357 Maximum said he has pushed the BRP 360-220 RN/FP/GC to 2700FPS with good accuracy. But has decided that for what he does with HIS rifle all he needs is 2500 to 2600 to get the job done. During Deer season I plan to load just the 360-220 and use it for smaller Hog say 200 pounds and under. When the off season comes around I plan to load up the 358009 and use them for any Hog lol. :)

I am going to place an order for the BRP 360-220 RN/FP/GC soon and have on hand the 358009 285Gr RN/GC and will break the barrel in with some Hornady 250Gr Spire Points and may even use them for this years hunting depending on the time I have before then with the new rifle. :)

[JesterGrin_1]

I just don't get the "stop backhoe buckets with your head/neck/shoulder and breaking mirrors off from passing pickups with your shoulder while doing your job will have consequences."

What he means is you can only beat yourself up for so long before it takes a toll on your body. :redneck: And he likes to make more noise than a busted chainsaw in a bathroom lol. :bigsmyl2:

[JesterGrin_1]

Barstooler Congrats if you were one of the lucky Drivers of the A-10 HOG. Too Bad the GOV took them off Duty as I feel it was a HUGE mistake. But oh well.

[357maximum]

Well like it or not CBs are slow compared to jacketed bullets. I accept that and still enjoy casting (started in 1964)I do not accept that, you do and thats fine.

Fast CBs (e.g. between 2500 and 3000 fps) are possible but have to be hard, brittle, and short (e.g. low ballistic coefficient) to prevent obturation etc.Actually I have had alot better luck with tough yet mallable alloys that are not overly hard and are not even close to brittle.

There are diminishing returns in usability for hunting big game with CBs IMHO above 2300 fps. Sorry thats life. :cry: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, yours and mine differ is all.

Also above 2300 fps you still get "normal" throat and barrel wear due to hot gases, so I just don't bother. If I want to go above 2300 fps for long range and/or speed I just shoot jacketed bullets. Not meant to "slight" the CB world but varmiting or doing antelope with CBs at 400 yards is just not my cup of tea. I may just like my cup of tea a bit different than yours, it is what it is and that's fine.

On the other hand I am willing to use the Elmer Keith approach and take heavy for caliber CBs that perform well, will expand and hold together going through an animal's shoulder and deliver similar energy as a jacketed bullet. Thus my 220 gr 30 caliber mold for my 30-40 and 30-06, my 250gr mold for my 338-06, and my 280 gr in the Whelen.

But there are limits. Longest distance I ever killed game with the Whelen was 325 yards and that was not with CBs and was with a peep sight when my vision was better. 300 yards is pretty well pressing the limit for a Whelen or my 338-06 so if I hunt "long range" now days I bring my 338 RUM. Now that SOB has some recoil.:veryconfu

I just don't get the "stop backhoe buckets with your head/neck/shoulder and breaking mirrors off from passing pickups with your shoulder while doing your job will have consequences." My shooting shoulder is a bit worn/torn/rode hard an put away wet......hence the "recoil sensitivity with 250grain whelen loads at full speed"

I don't usually shoot 100 rounds of centerfire at a single setting and if I do I bring several rifles (some kick, some don't), and I always practice from "field positions" so it is not just leaning into the rifle across a bench. I never had trouble with felt recoil from the Whelen. It could be good stock fit (I make my own) or maybe the fact that I was just a dumb A-10 pilot who thinks anything below a GAU-8 30mm is a pea shooter -- just don't know. I submit that anybody except maybe a self admitted WUSS (I can't believe you said that. The general defenition is "A weak or ineffectual person") can do 20 rounds of 250 gr 35 Whelens at 2500 fps shooting off hand at a target 100 to 200 yards away.Well this "wuss" was talking about his right shoulder......get beyond my choice of words and relax a bit.

You seem to "know it all" but most reloaders I know (including myself) fit the same catagory. That does not detract from the fact that you are running a good forum.If I knew it all I sure as heck would not have been cleaning severe leading out of a rifle a week or so ago from trying to go too fast with super soft plainbased cast. What I was trying to do failed miderably...but guess what...I learned another "what not to do"...the more of them you can accomplish the closer you get to fulltime success.

Best to you and wish you continued success with your Whelen.To you too, my Whelen playings a quite minimal now as the challenge to get it to shoot real well at HV simply was not what I had hoped for. Too easy=too boring for some people with certain character/personality disorders.:bigsmyl2:[smilie=l:

As to bstarling's original request. Go here and buy yourself this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Reloading-Manual-Whelen-Caliber/dp/B002H62L5C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279702684&sr=1-1

Also get yourself a Lyman #49 Manual and check out the 35 Whelen.

It is a great gun. Started as a wildcat (like mine) with a 1:10 twist, but realize that if you have a "modern" (e.g. domesticated) Whelen the 1:16 twist it may not stabalize bullets above 250. Worst decision Remington ever made. :cry:I am sure there are those that would disagree with you on that, but you know what they say about opinions and...............

Barstooler

Please do not take anything above as personal...just explaining myself and my cup of tea. Some people simply like to prove that the world ain't flat. Some people are happy with a flat world...........it is what it is and we are all different.........that is a good thing because if the world had actually been flat and everybody sailed out to prove it false...we would not be here.

[damron g]

I get sub MOA with the BRP 360-225 @ 2500-2700 all the time

"all the time" is a dangerous statement with cast<G>

3 or 5 or 10 shot groups? What range? Factory rifle?.twist rate,barrel diameter etc.it would clear it up for a few of us.



George

[357maximum]

I get sub MOA with the BRP 360-225 @ 2500-2700 all the time

"all the time" is a dangerous statement with cast<G>

3 or 5 or 10 shot groups? What range? Factory rifle?.twist rate,barrel diameter etc.it would clear it up for a few of us.



George

George you are very correct about the danger of my ill worded statement:veryconfu. How about we use "99% ON DEMAND" instead. I shoot 5 shot groups for load testing but have many rapid fire 10,20,30 shot groups and a few one shot per day for 20 days "HUNTING" groups also. I shoot all my rifle/HV "PISTOL" loads at 100yards for initial load development and then start to back up to play and to beat on the steel targets. I can only shoot 440yards on my personal range and that is as far as I normally shoot. I have to leave redneck acres to shoot farther so I seldom do.

This rifle is a GEW98 glass bedded walnut sporter with a firelapped Shaw barrel, 24inches long with a 1in14 twist and a heavy taper. 3X9 vari-x II scope, commercial bottom metal, timney trigger, buehler safety. Lastmanout sold me the rifle last year and all I have done is redo the bedding, scope it and firelap it................. Hope that helps clear it up.

[Barstooler]

Barstooler Congrats if you were one of the lucky Drivers of the A-10 HOG. Too Bad the GOV took them off Duty as I feel it was a HUGE mistake. But oh well.


The A-10 is not "0ff Duty." 799 originally built but about 238 still in service and it is being modified into the A-10C to be able to carry JDAMS, has the Lightening pod, and is getting digital link system so the FAC and lase the target and link that data directly into the A-10s fire control system.

Much improved platform compared to what I flew. We did not even have an INS in the A-10 in 1976 when I started flying it. But even then it was a killing machine.

Barstooler

[Barstooler]

357...I never take anything personal.

My Whelen was built on a 1903 Mk I Springfield. I has a 1:10 twist because the barrel was rebored vs. replaced. Gunsmiths did a lot of that back then.

I built it because I had just had a bad experience having to kill a wounded mule deer (that I had shot with a 30-30) with my knife and I wanted something to "put game down." That is another story.

I suspect the faster twist on my barrel impacts a lot of what I can do with the rifle, but with the 1:10 twist I can go to 310 gr bullets and few Whelens these days can do that.

There is no data, but the Whelen was a wildcat - and a fairly popular one for decades before Remington tamed it. I suspect if there was some way to poll all Whelen owners in the US that a person would find that the wildcats far outnumber the Whelens built to the Remingon "standard." And Remington factory loadings are truely anemic.

I have only taken 22 deer, 4 elk, and 2 bear with my Whelen, but I was stationed overseas for 9 years while in the Air Force where I could not even have personal firearms or hunt (I know what actual "gun control" feels like). But I have found the Whelen to be a bang-flop type weapon. I once killed two white tail bucks and a bull elk within 15 seconds standing in the same spot -- all bang flop. It saved my life when I killed a large charging black bear at about 20 feet and found the bear's head looked like a bristle cone -- it had just tangled with a porcupine. So I respect the hell out of the Whelen.

I took a second Whelen I acquired and turned it into a 338-06 because Colorado is more open country hunting than where I grew up in Northern Idaho. That is a nice caliber as well.

My most recent project is a 6.5-06. I built it so I could could retire my original 256 Newton. I am just getting the barrel broken in on the 6.5-06 and it is accurate as hell. Have not started to develope any CB loads for it yet. I want to get it up and running for Antelope and Deer this fall.

If you are easily bored you might think about how to develope a CB load for my 6mm Lee Navy (6 grooves, with 1:6.5 twist designed to shoot a 135 gr bullet). http://www.spanamwar.com/lee.htm As you probably know the 220 Swift was a 6mm Lee Navy case necked down and with a shorter neck.

Barstooler

[Bret4207]

Huh. I was going to suggest for simple plinking type Whelen loads I use the old standby 13.0 Red Dot and even my kids shoot it with 260's.. Kills woodchucks real dead too. But I guess I'll pass since the atmosphere here is .......troubled.

[357maximum]

6mm lee navy is not one that I will try to tame anytime soon....good challenge though. I have done alot of playing with a rebored whelen from 06 on a rem 700 that was stamped 35/06....very similar loads acted very similar in that critter also it was 1/11 twist.

Right now I am busy trying to go full out on a 7X57A.I...the barrel is all original stepped military except for the slight tweak to the chamber. I am not 100% there yet, but very close to where I want to be. A "from the ground up" fully custom made version of the 287641 is being tested right now and showing big promise. I could not change the interior of the barrel so a talented friend volunteered to help by making a boolit that ACTUALLY FITS that bigger than commercial bore.

I firmly believe alot of "the rules" with cast have been both started and perpetuated by boolit moulds that make boolits that are too darn small and ill fitting. Make em fat, make em fit, make em tough, make em mallable and things seem to work much more better.


Troubled atmosphere Bret?.....I had a big ol steak, garlic taters and a few too many perfect margaritas last night....that might be what troubled the atmosphere:shock:

[Barstooler]

No. What "troubled" the atmosphere is most folks go to forums to find answers and to share information (who, what, when, why, how).

Many do not like barbs, bickering, boasting, and bomshells.

As Sgt Friday long ago said, "Just the facts."

Barstooler

[357maximum]

So what should a person do when his experience can be construed/confused as boasting or a bombshell should he still share it?....should he just shut up and let TRUTHS that are not always necessarrily so be perpetuated forever?

What happens when one fellas answers just happen to fly in the face of long held "facts" that may be a bit outdated due to newer ideas/techniques/materials?

Just because one fellas experience is different from anothers experience does not make either of them wrong.

This forum is about castboolits.


Some shoot em slow, some shoot em fast, some do both, some are content with the money saved over j-words, some just want to blam away with the money saved and some want to take cast to the outer limits and see what they actually can be made to do............it all fits right here.

The internet form of conversing is not perfect and sometimes things are taken wrong from their intended meanings. Sometimes simple statements by the typer can be taken as barbs,bickering,boasting, and bombshells even when there was not such intent.

[damron g]

"Many do not like barbs, bickering, boasting, and bomshells"

I do get the point of what you say,the tone was very boasting and arrogant,But thick skin must be had in forums.
But in 357 Max's defense i too am a younger(44) cast shooter who makes up my own rules and do get tired of the older fellers telling me some regurgitated line EH Harrison wrote 30 years ago as written in stone!

I will say Mr 357's 99% sub MOA is optimistic just to get in a jab<G> I'd go for 8 of 10 but that's my final offer.All i will say is i have shot CBA head to head matches over the last 15 years and many top notch outfits in .375,358 and 338 caliber in true BR guns were built and few would do 99% sub MOA in competition.Recoil was an accuracy issue even in 12# + guns.Many shot 1/2 MOA strings in practice but not the long haul.Roy Smith and his 338 Manx(338 x 1.5") was the exception to the rule as he seemed to keep up with the 30BR crowd.i shot my Rem 700 .35 Wh. at a CBA Spokane match two years back and the first two 5 shot groups were sub MOA with an NEI 285g(that isn't supposed to stabilize at 1650 i my 1-16 twist) but conditions be what they were i ended up and shot a 1.75" next group to blow it.

So there is my opinion.Just possibly a case of fond memories or only 10 groups on record for the average <G>(or the margarita's)
come on Mauser,Shaw barrel!! **** if you had a real BR gun you would shoot 1/8" groups 99.9 % of the time with that 35.

Have at me

g

[Nrut]

357Max..
There are more people here interested in seeing what can be done than there are those who would stay rooted in the past mythologies.. Unfortunately the rooted ones are quite vocal when seeing their ox is being gored often causing a major disruption to the whole learning process for those who want to move into uncharted areas..
You have knowledge how to make the .35 Whelen sing with cast at HV and I can guarantee that there are more than a few the would like to learn how to do the same.. Don't let distractors dis-way you from teaching what you know..
By the time I got to this sight there were a few who knew but were keeping mum and for the life of me I could figure could figure out why.. To many shots from the rooted ones had silenced them..
Corny I know but it is something I had to say..

[357maximum]

G------- I am actually a pessimist.....I hate dissapointment, but love pleasant surprises. :bigsmyl2:


Nrut--------- You 10X pegged the issue, .....unfortunately.

[357maximum]

"Many do not like barbs, bickering, boasting, and bomshells"

I do get the point of what you say,the tone was very boasting and arrogant,But thick skin must be had in forums.Since when was a little pride in accomplishment one of the seven deadly sins. It was not meant to be any sort of boast, barb,bicker, or bomb...........my original intent was just to get a few up and over the status quo...I failed miserably I guess. I am not known for being very succinct so I am not surprised at my failure to convey my thought on this. [smilie=p:


But in 357 Max's defense i too am a younger(44) cast shooter who makes up my own rules and do get tired of the older fellers telling me some regurgitated line EH Harrison wrote 30 years ago as written in stone!EXACTLY



So there is my opinion.Just possibly a case of fond memories or only 10 groups on record for the average <G>(or the margarita's)
come on Mauser,Shaw barrel!! **** if you had a real BR gun you would shoot 1/8" groups 99.9 % of the time with that 35.If I invited you over and did 1inch for 10-10 shot groups in a row I would likely just be having a good day then...right? Maybe I meant Minute of Animal in the first place[smilie=p:

Have at meWhat's the point in that? I am done and have said what I have said with nothing more to say I spose. Apathy has set in at this point.

g


357Max..
There are more people here interested in seeing what can be done than there are those who would stay rooted in the past mythologies.. Unfortunately the rooted ones are quite vocal when seeing their ox is being gored often causing a major disruption to the whole learning process for those who want to move into uncharted areas..
You have knowledge how to make the .35 Whelen sing with cast at HV and I can guarantee that there are more than a few the would like to learn how to do the same.. Don't let distractors dis-way you from teaching what you know..
By the time I got to this sight there were a few who knew but were keeping mum and for the life of me I could figure could figure out why.. To many shots from the rooted ones had silenced them..
Corny I know but it is something I had to say..

Not corny at all. Your point is very very very very valid. In particular there is one very knowledgeable soul that has taught me alot via PM here. Unfortunately for all of us he does not do much teaching out in the open. Threads/thoughts/minds like this are exactly the reason why. I have actually jabbed him in public here about the super secret squirrel tactics, but the longer I am online the more I understand his take on things.

As far as the Whelen or any other somewhat normal rifle is concerned HV accuracy is not that hard usually. If you are having issues simply stuffing rock hard alloys such as linotype into the bore is not going to fix things as some would have you to believe.

My successes have all come following the same basic pattern below.



Use a boolit that fits well on the body and the nose. (custom mould/sizing practices)


Use a GC'ed boolit that is made out of a tough yet mallable alloy....I did not say hard alloy. (Wd'ed 50/50 ww/pure is one example)

Use a powder that gives you the velocity you seek with a near full or full case. I call this consumable filler loads. (for 53-63mm cases that are not overbore H4350/H414/H4831 type powders)

Use a quality lube that is made for ACCURACY and SPEED. (LbT blue, C-red, lithi-bee type lubes.........rock hard colored paraffin needs not apply here save that for coloring books)

The rest of it comes down to the individual rifle/bedding/quirks/barrel etc and of course the nut behind the bolt. Not all rifles are capable of accurate HV with cast.......keep the ones that like HV cast and ditch the ones that don't...or shoot J-words in them. Sounds pretty simple right...........sometimes it can be just that easy, sometimes it is a bit tougher but you are never ever gonna know until you try.

The proceeding was one mans opinion..please feel free to disagree[smilie=s:

[45 2.1]

My successes have all come following the same basic pattern below.

Use a boolit that fits well on the body and the nose. (custom mould/sizing practices)

Use a GC'ed boolit that is made out of a tough yet mallable alloy....I did not say hard alloy. (Wd'ed 50/50 ww/pure is one example)

Use a powder that gives you the velocity you seek with a near full or full case. I call this consumable filler loads. (for 53-63mm cases that are not overbore H4350/H414/H4831 type powders)

Use a quality lube that is made for ACCURACY and SPEED. (LbT blue, C-red, lithi-bee type lubes.........rock hard colored paraffin needs not apply here save that for coloring books)

The rest of it comes down to the individual rifle/bedding/quirks/barrel etc and of course the nut behind the bolt. Not all rifles are capable of accurate HV with cast.......keep the ones that like HV cast and ditch the ones that don't...or shoot J-words in them. Sounds pretty simple right...........sometimes it can be just that easy, sometimes it is a bit tougher but you are never ever gonna know until you try.

The proceeding was one mans opinion..please feel free to disagree[smilie=s:

Hahahahahahahahaha................ now just where have we heard this before.............. Hee hee hee. Seems to be a rehash of of an old, old debate...... now doesn't it. It's your turn Mikey to be called things now. :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

[357maximum]

Yessir....I can take a turn...no problem........

Not charging someone for your opinion/thoughts/methods immediately makes you suspect I guess. Now if someone famous were to write it up and print it in a book then charge $19.95 for the glossy pages I guess then more would listen to the method. OH WELL I know it works, works well, no funky fillers required, no concrete boolits required just sounds too easy to be true I guess. At least the 50/50 is starting to be accepted in the mainstream a bit. The idea has been out there since well before Shooters.com and is just now being accepted by some...........what's that phrase about humans and change?

[JesterGrin_1]

This is where I feel I am lucky lol. I am so new at this stuff that there are no ways to be set in lol.

The only thing I think I have a good handle on at this point is the .44 Mag with the Lee 310Gr RNFP/GC and the Lyman 431244 SWC/GC out of the Marlin 1894SS in .44 Mag and my two pistolas of which are the Ruger Super Blackhawk Bisley Hunter and a S&W 629 Classic and the 629-3. Of which was the reason I started to cast lol. And learned a very big thing lol. And that was one load will not work well for all guns. And that includes the size of the BOOLIT. I did however settle on 3 powders for the .44 Mag and that is TightGroup for low to midrange and H-110 / W-296.


As for the GREAT Ole Tiny little miniscule Wheezer 35 Whelen lol. It is all new for me with this round and will try and find all the info I can on it. And will even try them. I mean what can it hurt. You get to cast BOOLITS load them and have a bit of fun at the range and even if they do not work you still should get a laugh and learn well those did not work but maybe this will and start over lol. But when things do work WOW what a feeling. And for some if you hunt with your own Cast BOOLITS just feels great when all things work out.

So what I have learned is that some people are just set in there ways or feel that anything published is the only way to do something. And that is fine and dandy as doing so is pretty safe and things usually work out ok.

While others wish to improve on what they are doing and expand there information as well as help others see there might be another way or even a better way.

So to this end Secret Squerrel lol. And others please just forget the people that say no this or that can not be done and help the others looking for a better way.

[damron g]

Yessir....I can take a turn...no problem........

"Not charging someone for your opinion/thoughts/methods immediately makes you suspect I guess. Now if someone famous were to write it up and print it in a book then charge $19.95 for the glossy pages I guess then more would listen to the method. OH WELL I know it works, works well, no funky fillers required, no concrete boolits required just sounds too easy to be true I guess. At least the 50/50 is starting to be accepted in the mainstream a bit."

agree with all said 100%,the glossy rags are mostly BS.Accuracy at high velocity and soft bullets works well sometimes.Just stating my oppinions on accuracy long term averages with cast and sporter weight rifles.I could be all wet but cant hold back sometimes.

george

[Barstooler]

So what I have learned is that some people are just set in there ways or feel that anything published is the only way to do something. And that is fine and dandy as doing so is pretty safe and things usually work out ok.

While others wish to improve on what they are doing and expand there information as well as help others see there might be another way or even a better way.

So to this end Secret Squerrel lol. And others please just forget the people that say no this or that can not be done and help the others looking for a better way.

Actually people were no **** publishing (books and articles) how to get 2700 to 3000 fps with CBs over 20 years ago. It is not new.

Barstooler

[bstarling]

Oh, my goodness!!! I feel as though I have released the ancient creature from the lost powder bin! I had no idea that a simple request could wind up with such a response. Actually, I do appreciate all of the comment and discussion on this topic. I've sat back and read.............and enjoyed this immensely!!

Thanks to all responders,

Bill:drinks::drinks::bigsmyl2:

[sundog]

Bill, your request was more or less focused rather than simple. Simple would be be something like, "Why is there life?"

[bstarling]

Sun Dog, I think you have a valid point. This is rather like discussing evolution on line.........................OMG, it can raise a ruckus!

Bill[smilie=s: