rcbs cowboy dies

[bigboredad]

After reading gearnashers thread it got me thinking about the rcbs cowboy dies. They say they are made for lead and so I was just wondering do they really help and are they really made to different specs? I sent a email to rcbs asking these questions and the response I got was a joke all they didn't answer any of my questions. So I was wondering if anyone has any experience with them. thanks in advance

[felix]

Yes and no is the best answer. Different specs, yes. Best specs, no. Great quality, yes. Best to get custom dies for the gun that deserves it using the same chambering reamers when possible, otherwise using fired cases from many hot loads with those cases. Using new cases having new-case-spring-back is what most grinders desire, but that makes for too much sizing. A good die maker knows how to make cases fit the gun to a knat's eyebrow. ... felix

[RobS]

Felix has a good point and the best route is to have custom dies made except that isn't really economical for many people. I have enough expense already in dies and to a degree have a "custom" workup in itself with finding the best die for each operation of the loading process. I have 4 different die brands all on one tool head for loading just one caliber and then on top of that I have modified some of them and made custom expander plugs for different bullet hardness so I have the best neck tension without swaging down bullets etc., etc., etc. And no the cost of this would still be less than a custom die makers charge.

Anyway, I have their crimp die for 45 colt and with a .455 bullet it doesn't shave or swage down my bullets like other dies. A close second best choice for my setup is a modified Lee FCD. I took the crimp sleeve out and put in into another die body that didn't have the carbide ring in it. I also had to hone out the mouth of the lee crimp sleeve so the bullets front drive band wouldn't get swaged down on entering the sleeve. After working with both dies lately I have come to like the RCBS die a bit better.

As for the other dies in the RCBS cowboy set the brass sizing die is of a slightly larger diameter and the expander as well. All this is for the intended purpose of loading larger cast bullets. For me I put the efforts into the Lyman M-die as making an expander button or two for different bullet hardness was easier for my purposes and I could be more precise with my reloading practices.

I was going to try the Dillon Accu-crimp die for 45 colt/454 casull loads with those larger .455 bullets, but held off the more reading I did as the die is to tapper and then crimp or in my mind, swage then crimp. I called Dillon and like bigboredad it was not of much use. All they could tell me was, "It should work"???? Well long story short I found a person at the range who loaded with Dillon everything this last Saturday and he offered to let me borrow his 45 colt crimp die. Well, it crimps somewhat ok, but swages down the bullet, front drive band and all. The die probably would work fine for .452 bullets however.

I believe a friend has a set of RCBS 38special/357mag cowboy dies that he is pleased with, maybe I can get some specifics if I can get a hold of him.

[Shooter6br]

I almost bought them " Sure are purdy"

[Muddy Creek Sam]

They work great for my 38-55 loads that I use in my 1885 and 1894.

Sam :D

[Hickory]

Yes and no is the best answer. Different specs, yes. Best specs, no. Great quality, yes. Best to get custom dies for the gun that deserves it using the same chambering reamers when possible, otherwise using fired cases from many hot loads with those cases. Using new cases having new-case-spring-back is what most grinders desire, but that makes for too much sizing. A good die maker knows how to make cases fit the gun to a knat's eyebrow. ... felix

I agree with Felix in everything, I have two sets of RCBS Cowboy Dies and they load cast boolits better than the other dies I have.

[mpmarty]

All I reload is cast. I use LEE, Lyman, RCBS, C&H and Redding dies and they all work if properly adjusted. I NEVER seat and crimp on the same station. My rifle dies for my Dillon 550 all have an "M" die in station one. My fired cases get deprimed in a univerasl deprimer, tumble cleaned, trimmed then collet resized in a LEE collet type resize die in a single stage press before they even get close to my Dillon.

[cajun shooter]

I have three sets of them. Like all RCBS products they are first rate. They come with two different size belling stems and are larger in size to load cast bullets. My sets are 45 Colt/Schofield , 44-40 and 45-70. With the standard 45 Colt dies I was having a bulge at the neck of the case and they would not feed in my guns. That set only came with a 452 stem which has become the new 45 Colt diameter even though it should be .454 I have much better accuracy shooting 454 bullets than 452. No leading either. Same with 45-70 at 457 when I need a 458 or459. I use them with the Lee FCD in a 4 step process and it works much better than the 3 stage. I have found that my ammo shoots better when it is crimped in a stage of it's own. Plus you have the bonus of the good looks and RCBS warranty.

[44man]

All of the special dies and expanders are made for soft lead boolits. Accuracy is fleeting but then none is really needed for cowboy shooting.
Better to use a good set of dies and make boolits hard enough to resist damage.

[bigboredad]

I was just curious about the rcbs cowboy dies. I load on a set of hornady that I had them send me a new seating die for my .454 boolits. the standard one that came with set was hanging up on my boolits each time I lowered the case the seating sleeve would come out and the I never could get it to seat my boolits properly but hornady took care of me and in a very quick polite and professional manner no wonder Ive Been loading with their products for over20 years[smilie=s:

[Tom W.]

" The RCBS cowboy dies."




I'm kinda sleepy right now. I didn't know that they had a cowboy. May he rest in peace.

[geargnasher]

All of the special dies and expanders are made for soft lead boolits. Accuracy is fleeting but then none is really needed for cowboy shooting.
Better to use a good set of dies and make boolits hard enough to resist damage.

Sorry, 44Man, I have to most emphatically disagree with you on this one. Please don't forget that not everyone needs or wants to shoot 28 bhn oven-treated Lino in their guns that are only rated in the peak pressure range of 12-18,000 c.u.p.! Case in point, the .45 Colt: Standard, SAA loads should top out at no more than 14,000 cup or less, right? Usually sized larger than J-words with softer alloy, right? How's that going to work with a cat-sneeze load of Red Dot or Unique in a standard-pressure gun? I think it's a poor solution to depend on the hardness of the boolit to make up for poorly fitting reloading dies unless you're loading the same diameter and shape as the dies were designed for.

Now, if you're shooting a .460 Ruger, dialed-in to a gnat's behind with timing and tube dimensions, at shatter-my-wrist pressures and extreme range, you're absolutely right, and I've learned a LOT from you in this regard, it's just that most of us don't go there often and our needs are different.

Gear

[alamogunr]

" The RCBS cowboy dies."




I'm kinda sleepy right now. I didn't know that they had a cowboy. May he rest in peace.

That was the first thought that hit me and I just got up from a good night's sleep.

John
W.TN

[44man]

Sorry, 44Man, I have to most emphatically disagree with you on this one. Please don't forget that not everyone needs or wants to shoot 28 bhn oven-treated Lino in their guns that are only rated in the peak pressure range of 12-18,000 c.u.p.! Case in point, the .45 Colt: Standard, SAA loads should top out at no more than 14,000 cup or less, right? Usually sized larger than J-words with softer alloy, right? How's that going to work with a cat-sneeze load of Red Dot or Unique in a standard-pressure gun? I think it's a poor solution to depend on the hardness of the boolit to make up for poorly fitting reloading dies unless you're loading the same diameter and shape as the dies were designed for.

Now, if you're shooting a .460 Ruger, dialed-in to a gnat's behind with timing and tube dimensions, at shatter-my-wrist pressures and extreme range, you're absolutely right, and I've learned a LOT from you in this regard, it's just that most of us don't go there often and our needs are different.

Gear
Yes, your correct but if you have a good set of dies there is no need to buy another set for the soft lead. All you need is a larger expander plug.
Remember, I shoot a lot of those cat sneeze loads for fun too, almost see the boolits go down to bounce off a beer can! :mrgreen:
I found accuracy tripled just making the boolit harder and using the same load practices I use for hunting loads. Even water dropped WW's work fine with improved accuracy.
I am not against anyone using soft lead but it not only takes more work and changes when loading them and I just never made the stuff work good enough.
I see no reason to have 2 or 3 different procedures and die sets for one gun when one system works for any load.
I really hate casting and loading and I am very lazy and bored with it all but I love to make guns work and I love to shoot, so I look for the most shortcuts I can find. I do not even want one reject when casting because it is a waste of time.
I have done a lot of experimenting and still do it but once something works, that's it and where I stay, never again to change for that gun. I want every boolit and load I have for that gun to work without doing something different whether it is 7 gr of Unique or 24 gr of 296.
My hardest job is to explain "LAZY" to you! [smilie=1:
Look at this picture of my "EXTREME ORGANIZATION." :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2:

[44man]

That was the first thought that hit me and I just got up from a good night's sleep.

John
W.TN
I love it! :lol: May he rest in peace.

[prs]

Yes and no is the best answer. Different specs, yes. Best specs, no. Great quality, yes. Best to get custom dies for the gun that deserves it using the same chambering reamers when possible, otherwise using fired cases from many hot loads with those cases. Using new cases having new-case-spring-back is what most grinders desire, but that makes for too much sizing. A good die maker knows how to make cases fit the gun to a knat's eyebrow. ... felix



From the perspective of a person reloading a specific round for a specific gun, felix is spot on. But there are more than a few of us who use various firearms with the same ammo. I have several .45 Colt revolvers and a couple of lever rifles which share the same ammo. Three of my Ruger revolvers and the two Marlin lever rifles actually do share fire formed cases fairly well. The Colt revolvers have tighter chambers. Then I have one genuine eyetallion clone that is over sized and mucks up the deal. The Cowboy, I think, is in reference to CAS where there are lots of folks with various irons that share ammo like this. So the internal sizer of the Cowboy dies is an easy out for me. I found that my Lee resizer die actually left the cases a bit larger than do the Cowboy die, so I use that. I have resized using only the Lee FCD die before deprimng with size die to work only the "neck" (too much trouble for high volume).

prs

[MtGun44]

Heck, I never even heard that he was sick! [smilie=1:

Always the last to hear everything. :D

Bill

[375supermag]

I bought a set of RCBS cowboy dies for reloading for my .44 Special Ruger flat top and a Taurus DA .44 special.

The dies, once properly adjusted, work just fine and they look nice. They are only used to load cast lead semi-wadcutters. After some thousands of rounds loaded, I have had no problems with them. I have been contemplating getting another seating die for a roundnose bullet.

I am also going to buy a set of RCBS cowboy dies for my .45 Colt Vaqueros... I already have standard carbide dies in .45Colt, but...Hey...why not? You can never have too many die sets, right?

I suppose standard dies from any of the major manufacturers would work just as well, but sometimes I like to use something just a little bit different.

[cajun shooter]

44 Man, Have you ever shot in a SASS Match? If not then you should before making a carte blanche statement on the bullet that is needed. Since my first match I have been hit with various sizes of lead that is off the targets. SASS is a very good organsation when it comes to safety. They have set rules on anything that could endanger or harm someone. I for one have been casting since around 1970 and agree with a lot of what you say but you are off base on this one. I use bullets that are in the 10-12 BHN range with full cases of BP. They hit the plate, flatten and drop to the ground. A hard bullet that is in the higher range that you suggest has a good chance of being deflected in many different directions with possible injury to someone. And before you come back with all of the ways to set a target so that does not occur go back and read my first few lines. Even shotshells with magnum shot is guility of coming back and hitting shooters and crew. There is no need for hard bullets in SASS.

[fecmech]

Re: RCBS Cowboy Dies. I didn't even get it till after I finished post #13! I better have another cup of coffee!

[casterofboolits]

" The RCBS cowboy dies."




I'm kinda sleepy right now. I didn't know that they had a cowboy. May he rest in peace.

Now he's riding that great range in the sky with the Marlboro Man! :violin:

Yeah, that's the ticket! [smilie=w::bigsmyl2:

[felix]

Last Marlboro man on posters: Warren Bass , master baton twirler for Univ of MO, Columbia, early 1960's. Led the bands of several professional marching types. 100 plus feet in the air, and caught behind his back, all the time while strutting normally. Pure magic. Died of Aids in NYC at least 20 years ago. ... felix

[44man]

44 Man, Have you ever shot in a SASS Match? If not then you should before making a carte blanche statement on the bullet that is needed. Since my first match I have been hit with various sizes of lead that is off the targets. SASS is a very good organsation when it comes to safety. They have set rules on anything that could endanger or harm someone. I for one have been casting since around 1970 and agree with a lot of what you say but you are off base on this one. I use bullets that are in the 10-12 BHN range with full cases of BP. They hit the plate, flatten and drop to the ground. A hard bullet that is in the higher range that you suggest has a good chance of being deflected in many different directions with possible injury to someone. And before you come back with all of the ways to set a target so that does not occur go back and read my first few lines. Even shotshells with magnum shot is guility of coming back and hitting shooters and crew. There is no need for hard bullets in SASS.
BP is so different you should not compare it.
Harder boolits at a higher velocity turn to dust on steel.
Steel shooting is NOT dangerous with any boolit when armor plate steel is used. Danger comes from soft steel that craters.
But I also stated steel shooting is fine for soft because accuracy is not important.
Cowboy stuff is silly in that it takes a fortune to shoot. Special guns and clothes, holsters and such. Fun for rich folk. Many of us could not afford the hat!
It is like the shooting civil war stuff near Winchester VA where you need a uniform and if you change outfits you need a new one.
I want to shoot in old work pants and a "T" shirt. I don't want a waxed mustach or fancy boots. How about silver spurs?
Sure it is fun but it is not for the guy that works for a living or is on SS. I want guys like me to shoot as good as they can with a "T" shirt on.

[mpmarty]

Ditto for the cubic dollars and competition shooting. I quit years ago. I shoot once a month in local club matches and the rest of the time I just hang out at home and shoot on my own range. Nobody cares what I wear or if I wear anything at all. I've got 8" spinner plates that I shoot at from about fifty yards with pistols. Once or twice a year I "mine" the ground where they stand for salvage lead.

[44man]

You should see Sutler's row in VA. OH boy do those guys get rich! :holysheep

[cajun shooter]

Well 44 man you have stated another falsehood about a subject that you know nothing about. I live on SS disability of $920 a month and if you consider that rich you better retake some math classes. I don't think Elmer Keith shot BP but I do know he fired a lot of bullets that were 10BHN at 44 mag FPS. When I first became interested in SASS I was offered guns by the menmbers so that I could shoot a match instead of just watch. Almost all clubs will loan guns to some one so that they may see what it is like. I have never seen anyone with silver spurs and waxed mustache which proves to me that you would rather spread false information than to find the truth. If some one was to say something false about your posting you would and have yelled to high heavens. If you don't know about a subject then ether remain mute or try to learn the truth before speaking. You chose to poke fun at me and avoid the question that was directed to you. If you or anyone else is interested then go to a match . You will see shooters in different stages of dress and with several different guns. You may shoot in matches for up to a year in most clubs before meeting the dress code. If you pick certain classes to shoot in you will need a pair of western boots such as Ropers which are sold second hand for as little $40, a pair of Wal mart blue jeans with buttons so that you may use the $10 suspenders and a $12 long sleeve shirt. The hats may be purchased for as little as $29.95. The guns that I started with was a Colt cowboy in blue steel that I already owned. A taurus in SS that I purchased for $275, shotgun worth about $350 and $375 rifle. So I had one blue gun and one SS gun. That is so I could tell left from right. I shot and and came in last for many matches even though I once was a Firearms instructor. You know what though. I left with the same thing that the guy who finished first , that was nothing!! SASS matches are family type of gatherings to meet and shoot with other people and have fun. You can choose to stay at this level for as long as you want or you can purchase the $1500 race ready rifles that win matches. There are some of the members who have millons or at least thousands of dollars to purchase anything they want. And they do have bthe top of the line clothes and guns. That is no different than the membership of this forum. I see many who are able to buy anything they want and others like myself who have to sell a gun to buy one. I have been casting since 1970 and reloading also. That keeps me shooting as there is no way I could purchase store ammo. I have helped many who have come into the sport to reload so that they also can shoot. I have read since I first started looking at cast boolits several of your postings. I agree with you on some and disagree on others. You have never seen me post anything negative about your postings you need to do the same. Later David