Italian 6.5 Carcano. Are they any good or junkers?

[mikenbarb]

Are the Italian Carcano Military rifles any good? I have an opportunity for one but dont know if im wasting my time on it. Its a little beat up but the bore and other metal is good on it.

[leadhead]

4 years ago, you could'nt give me a carcano. I thought they were junk.
Finaly got one just to have an example in my collection. I now have 13
carcano's. They are not the junk I once beleived them to be.
I shoot all cast bullets and find them to be very accurate rifles. They take
a little getting used to, but much fun. I'd go for it. They are very under estimated.
Hope this helps,
Denny

[JIMinPHX]

There are several flavors of Carcanos. There are a few different calibers. There are a few different barrels lengths. Some have gain twist barrels. Some do not. Some of the short barrel carbines were made by cutting off the gain twist barrels & therefore became slower twist barrels that don't properly stabilize the veeerrrrryyyy looonnngg bullets that the Carcano rifles normally shoot. They have a funny sort of clip that they use. The clips are getting harder to find these days. A very spartan looking, spring loaded finger pushes the cartridges up through the clip. When the clip is empty, it drops out the bottom of the rifle. The bolts on them look a little wimpy, but they work. Period correct detail parts have gotten hard to find, but that should only matter to a collector, not a shooter.

I think that they are cute little rifles. I think that the 6.5mm carbines make a great little scouting rifle. If the condition & the price were both good, I'd buy it. I'd also ask if the guy had any clips to go with it. You will need at least 1 or else it will just be a hard-to-load single shot. Then again, since you are in NJ, you might want to give a call to Sarco in Stirling NJ. Those guys are big time military surplus gun dealers. They may have clips. If they don't have them, then good luck finding any.

I think that Boxer brass can be had from Norma or somebody like that, but I recall it being rather expensive. I tried to convert some Berdan brass, but the stuff that I had would not take the Boxer conversion that I had done on some 7.62 x 54 Berdan brass in the past. I managed to get it to take a #209 shotgun primer after some big modifications, but that means that it is now limited to very low pressure loads. Reloading dies for most of the Carcano calibers are out there, but you need to look for them. As of a few years ago, Lee used to still make some of them.

[JeffinNZ]

I bought one just prior to Xmas and rather like it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Roo%20trip%2010/IMG_0001.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/SC3522157010030214370.jpg

[herbert buckland]

New brass is avalible in Australia ,I think it highland brand,you have to youse a larger than standard 6.5 boolit these are avalable but hard to find,not sure what would be the best mould,as stated stay clear of the cutdown rifle they will not shoot if they started life with a gain twist barell also if you want to youse open sights some of the carbines have fixed back sights and take a bit to regulate(yousl have to modify the front sight) clips can be touchy and cause feeding problems.Other than that they can be very acurate and handy rifles with a round that will not knock you around

[twotoescharlie]

grafs had boxer brass several years ago. I think I purchased 500 rounds. been awhile, gettin' old don't remember

TTC

[Frank46]

Jeff, thats a beautiful carcano. All I ever see here in louisiana are rusted and busted
clunkers. And at prices that make you think il duce carried it. Frank

[leadman]

Graf has brass and ammo. I had one made by Beretta and it was a good shooting rifle. Had to use the standard .264" dia. bullets but now there are .268" bullets available. The Mannicular style clips are definitely needed if you want a repeater.
Safety is more difficult to use than what we are normally used to but usable. Sights are typical WWII open, there are several styles, some better like my Beretta was (sold it).
Power level is close to the 6.5 Jap.

[Buckshot]

..............I think the Carcanos weren't cared for much because they were hard to sporterize (split bridge, required a clip to be a repeater, odd sized casehead) they weren't deemed very powerfull, the bolts operated fairly stiffly, and possibly MOST damning was that they were used by Italy only. They weren't well known before WW2 and the Italians weren't taken as seriously 'Military' as the Germans. Maybe also other then the M1891 and M1941's the other models were small or unthreatening, and maybe even toylike?

The prices of Carcano's have literally skyrocketed in the past 5-6 years. For a considerable time I do believe they were probably the least expensive milsurp rifle there was. I have 2 of'em and didn't get those until way late in my milsurp mania period.

http://www.fototime.com/9CC81583032A470/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/CC4F620CC8FC8CF/standard.jpg

This is a 'Post Capitulation' Terni built M91 Moschetto Truppi Speciale in 6.5x52. I don't think it was ever issued. You can easily hold it out with one hand and shoot it. Almost needs a holster :-)

http://www.fototime.com/9C06A0D0704C216/standard.jpg

This is the only photo I have of the other and it's a M38 Fucile Corto in 7.35x51. In this photo it has a straight handled bolt, and has since been swapped for the correct turned down handle. The cartridge is simply the 6.5mm case necked up to a true 30 cal with a bullet of .300".

Here's a link with some info:

http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano/

.............Buckshot

[DanM]

Privi Partisan makes ammo, and Graf's usually has their cases for the 6.5x52. The Privi ammo has .264" bullets, so it is not very accurate in the carcano. I found some for $13.49/20 at a show, so I bought a bunch just for the cases, and pulled most of them. Am shooting the pulled soft point JBs occasionaly in my M96 Swede with good results. Hornady makes loaded ammo and component bullets sized .268 for 6.5x52, also available from graf's. That stuff shoots well. Have been told by several sources that the 6.5x52 Hornady brass is make by Privi in Serbia. Jury is still out on cast in these gain twist barrels. Posted results vary widely.

[shooterg]

Hey, it was good enough for Lee Harvey Oswald, right ? Or was there someone on the grassy knoll ?

[JeffinNZ]

Hey, it was good enough for Lee Harvey Oswald, right ? Or was there someone on the grassy knoll ?

I just wrote an article for NZ Guns and Hunting about my Carcano and I specifically recorded the 'alleged use on JFK'. Still far from convinced.

[Hang Fire]

At the time of the JFK affair they could be ordered by mail for around $15.00.

[twotoescharlie]

from a place called Klien's, I ordered several rifles from them. the two that i remembered was two small frame Martinis in 310 greener cal. $12.88 each plus a small amount of postage.

TTC

[corvette8n]

I bought two Carcano's in my lifetime. Both 6.5 carbines, I paid $100.00 for the first one and it had $99.00 worth of accessories with it. The second one was $60. but was in better shape. I cut the firing pin on the first one and sold it as a wall hanger for $50. If I size .277 bullets down to .269 I can get it on paper.

[mikenbarb]

I broke down and bought it. Its gonna take a ride to the range tommorow to see what it can do.:-)

[JeffinNZ]

I broke down and bought it. Its gonna take a ride to the range tommorow to see what it can do.:-)

Oh dear. I feel like I am a bad influence. :bigsmyl2:

[mikenbarb]

It did pretty good at the range but I gotta tweak the loads a bit. Thanks everyone.

[jlchucker]

At the time of the JFK affair they could be ordered by mail for around $15.00.

I bought mine the year before, like new at a local department store. I was a college student and had very little money. Paid $7.95. This store had stacks of surplus rifles for sale in the lower level. I felt at the time that British Enfield rifles at $19.95, US 1917 Enfields at $29.95, and 1903 Springfields at $39.95 were beyond my financial reach. I took my Carcano back to the dorm, then on the weekend, hitchhiked back to my parents' home with my rifle and left it there. Times were sure different back then. You'd never get away with that today. The University I attended is today about as leftist as Berkley on the west coast.

[madsenshooter]

Boy they sure have changed! Hitching with a rifle. I just finished 10 years of hitchiking, and it was more hiking than hitching, I could just imagine carrying a rifle along, there'd be someone with flashing lights stop to give you a ride. I bought a Japanese Type I not long ago, which is a Carcano with a regular box magazine, but haven't done anything with it yet.

[Boz330]

It did pretty good at the range but I gotta tweak the loads a bit. Thanks everyone.

Without the purple long johns you are wasting your time, that is what makes them shoot.[smilie=p:

Bob

[jlchucker]

Boy they sure have changed! Hitching with a rifle. I just finished 10 years of hitchiking, and it was more hiking than hitching, I could just imagine carrying a rifle along, there'd be someone with flashing lights stop to give you a ride. I bought a Japanese Type I not long ago, which is a Carcano with a regular box magazine, but haven't done anything with it yet.

Around here it's still not really unusual to see guys, especially during one of the hunting seasons, carrying long guns openly along the side of the road. Not while hitchhiking these days though. Remembering back on those days in college, though, another time I had sold a car (for the princely sum of about 50 bucks). Hitched to Rutland (nowadays known for drugs and gangs as much as anything else, but not then) and looked for another car. When I didn't find one I stopped in a downtown sporting goods store to look over used guns. Bought a 16 ga double shotgun for about 30 bucks and hitched back with it (about 50 miles or so). A few weeks later, I took that shotgun with me, along with some luggage, on a bus back to parents' place. The driver made me break it open to make sure it was unloaded--that's all. What happened to our America, that times have changed so much? Whatever happened to $50, driveable cars, too?

[cardinarky]

If a Carcano and one man did what LHO supposedly did in 1963 he should be on the new Discovery Channel show "SuperHumans". How long did it take the SS and the FBI to even come close to duplicating 3 shots with that degree of accuracy in 6 seconds or so? I think it was at least a year and it was supposedly done by a Marine sniper and it took him a couple of days to achieve it.

[uncle joe]

Oh dear. I feel like I am a bad influence. :bigsmyl2:

OO Jeff, Your another enabler :kidding:

[skeet1]

At one time I owned a Carcano that looked just like the one in Buckshots post the only difference was the rear sight. The workmanship on my rifle was very good and I enjoyed shooting it until l discovered its weak spot which is its ability to vent gas from a ruptured casing. I received a piece of very hot brass in my right eyebrow. The fault was probably mine in that I was using Old military ammo. with good new brass it likely would not have happened.

Skeet1

[Multigunner]

If a Carcano and one man did what LHO supposedly did in 1963 he should be on the new Discovery Channel show "SuperHumans". How long did it take the SS and the FBI to even come close to duplicating 3 shots with that degree of accuracy in 6 seconds or so? I think it was at least a year and it was supposedly done by a Marine sniper and it took him a couple of days to achieve it.

Lee Harvey Oswald's shots striking home were as much by guess and by golly as by intention.
The range was short enough that he didn't need the scope, the offset scope allowed a clear view of the iron sights.

Like as not he aimed for center mass and the headshot was due to the shot going high.

Two or three seconds between shots is plenty enough time.
Some bolt action rifles are stiff, but when worn in the action can slicken up.
Someone not familar with the Carcano might not be able to cycle the action swiftly, but an obssesive personalty like Oswald might practice dry firing for hours, with adenaline speeding his motions even more.

[semtav]

Shot my Carcano in the local military match this weekend. Managed to get a 6/8, 7/8 and 8/8 on the 340, 450 and 300 yd targets. (shooter didn't do his job on the 230 and 488 yd targets).

The sights are probably the weakest link on these guns.

If I'd have known about the purple tights, and worn some, I probably would have gotten at least a 7/8 on the two others

[MasterGunnerySergeant]

They used to call them 'Humanitarian Rifles' because they never hurt anyone on purpose. I often wonder if that was a knock on the rifle or the Italians that carried them.

[Tertle]

Shot my Carcano in the local military match this weekend. Managed to get a 6/8, 7/8 and 8/8 on the 340, 450 and 300 yd targets. (shooter didn't do his job on the 230 and 488 yd targets).

The sights are probably the weakest link on these guns.

If I'd have known about the purple tights, and worn some, I probably would have gotten at least a 7/8 on the two others

never under estimate the power of the purple longjohns!

[Multigunner]

They used to call them 'Humanitarian Rifles' because they never hurt anyone on purpose. I often wonder if that was a knock on the rifle or the Italians that carried them.

The standard 6.5 Carcano military ball would have been one of the few that met the Hague conventions against un necessary suffering, A Humane Bullet if such actually exists.
The long round nose bullet had better penetration than its velocity would have indicated, but generally bored straight through holes with out a large pemanent wound channel.
Winchester manufacture 6.5 carcano ammo was a different story. The brittle jackets and excessive crimping pressure induced stresses that caused many bullets to break up in the body of a victim, creating massive wound channels with multiple exit wounds.

The 7.35 Italian used a two piece core with aluminum nose plug like the .303 MkVII bullets. These tumbled and broke up in the wound causing massive damage.

[Beekeeper]

Buickshot,
Do you know if they have the same barrel threads a a small ring Mauser?
I have an 88 commission rifle receiver that is extra with all of the parts including bolt.
They look kinda ratty (from rust and pitting) but are sound as far as safety goes.
Was considering using it for a carcano barrel.

Jim

[Multigunner]

Buickshot,
Do you know if they have the same barrel threads a a small ring Mauser?
I have an 88 commission rifle receiver that is extra with all of the parts including bolt.
They look kinda ratty (from rust and pitting) but are sound as far as safety goes.
Was considering using it for a carcano barrel.

Jim

The Gew 88 shank is far different from the Italian or the Small Ring Mauser shanks.
The Gew 88 shank uses a 12 Threads per Inch V thread.
The Italian Rifle shank is larger in diameter and uses a 14 TPI thread.

You could probably have eiither the Carcano barrel or a Small Ring Mauser barrel turned down and rethreaded to fit the Gew 88.

PS
The 1891 Mauser barrel is closest to the Gew 88. It would require .005" turned from the shoulder to fit. Diameter of shank and TPI are within .001.
The 93-96 shanks could also be fitted but would require a bit more turned from the shoulder.

[darwinmauser]

Buickshot,
Do you know if they have the same barrel threads a a small ring Mauser?
I have an 88 commission rifle receiver that is extra with all of the parts including bolt.
They look kinda ratty (from rust and pitting) but are sound as far as safety goes.
Was considering using it for a carcano barrel.

Jim


Jim, I was going to do the exact same thing for a Mannlicher I have, seeing as the rifles have very similar chambers and of course they are both 6.5 , bought the Carcano rifle with an OK barrel for 50 bucks . I decided I should shoot the Carcano before I stripped it to make sure the barrel was good , It was such a sweet shooter I couldn't break her up so I ended up with the MS and a Carcano. The MS is at the moment getting a new barrel and the Carcano is getting a new stock ,bolt handle and sights ,should be a nice little stalking rifle when it's done . I have a Lyman ? 140 grain mold for it when I get it back ,I'll try it out and if it's works all well and good ,if not I'll get cast bullet engineering to make me a better one.

Pete

[Multigunner]

There were some very nice sporting rifles built on the GEW 88 actions.
I think I'd chose the .32-40.
The 8.15X46r was very similar to the .32-40 and a very popular and highly developed target and medium game cartridge. Many european hunters and target shooters also chose to have rifles chambered for the US .32-40.

The Gew 88 was probably strong enough for the 7mm and early 6.5 cartridges of its time when new, but these rifles are getting old and metalurgy was not up to later standards so metal fatigue is more of a factor to be considered than with rifles of the mid 20th century.

[Muzzlehatch]

They used to call them 'Humanitarian Rifles' because they never hurt anyone on purpose. I often wonder if that was a knock on the rifle or the Italians that carried them.

Italians are lovers, not fighters. That is, unless they're named Soprano.

[Muzzlehatch]

Shot my M1941 "long rifle" yesterday and managed a 8" vertical string at 100 yards. Load was 30 grs. of IMR 4895 with a .268 160 gr. Hornady RN. The sights were very blurry and I could barely see the front sight at the base of the "V" notch which is the way it's supposed to be held.