Wheel weights and 40 S&W

[ian45662]

Just got 100 pounds of wheel weights that I plan on shooting in my 40 S&W. I have lots of pure lead and some tin as well. Should I add any of each to my wheel weights once they are melted down?

[geargnasher]

What works for me is straight clip-on WW with about 1-2% tin added by weight for castability and a touch of added malleability. My .40 likes harder boolits, and I water-quench them for a bhn of around 22-23. YMMV.

If you're making very light loads and trying to stretch your alloy, you could add pure lead to the clip-on weights 50/50 and water drop the boolits for a bhn of around 14-16 or so. It all depends on what the gun likes.

I would try just using the clip-ons first, once you get that working well then experiment with smaller batches. You can't un-alloy the stuff.

Gear

[Doby45]

I use straight clip ons with a touch of tin and water quenched as well.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I use straight WW's including the stick on's. No tin or anything else. I water drop my boolits and I do not stop to admire my handiwork. I dump the sprues in a carboard box next to the casting pot and immediately dump the cast boolits into a 5 gallon bucket of cool water with 4 gals of water and some packing peanuts on the surface.

I do not spend any time checking out the boolits for perfect bases etc. When I am casting I am casting. After the pot is turned off and the tools put away I strain the cast boolits through a metal strainer in the sink and dump them out onto an old towel. Once dried off I take them back to the table for a closer examination and possible weighing with a digital scale.

This is when I find the problem children and return them to the sprue box. You would be surprised to find that sometimes the ugliest boolits do just fine when shot at 10 to 20 yds on a steel target. If I am making some of the long 174 grain .357 rounds for use in my smith 586 at 100 yds then I will be weighing all of them.

I keep the ones that are less than a grain off in weight and toss the remainer into the sprue box.

If you keep your alloy at the right temp and ditto with a hot mold the level of consistency will amaze you even when casting fast.

[ian45662]

sounds good guys thanks for the info

[Mattog22]

so it seems like water quenching is pretty common with the .40? It seemed to me that most people casting .45 don't water quench. Is this the trend? Is it because of the higher velocity of the .40?

[MtGun44]

IMHO, water quenching is wildly overdone. Try without and see what you get.
My guess is 8 of 10 will see no difference except less time and mess. Hardness
is a secondary issue and most treat it as a primary issue. At least try air cooling,
and make sure you have a boolit that is about .001 to .002 larger than the groove
diameter of YOUR barrel, not the "normal" barrel (whatever THAT is!).

You may well find that accuracy is better with harder, I have not, but I do not shoot
a .40. I do shoot 9mm, .357 mag & .44 mag at full max loads with great accy and no
leading with plain base boolits from aircooled wwts with a touch of tin to improve fillout.

Let Mr. Target tell you if you need to water drop. :D

I could be wrong, esp about YOUR gun, but Mr. Target is NEVER wrong. ;-)

Bill

[HammerMTB]

My .40 loads are all major PF and air cooled.
The big difference between .45 and .40 to me is the pressure. If all other loading factors are equal, pressure is significantly higher in the .40. Even so, I have had no trouble using AC wheel weights. I would not soften the alloy further, tho, unless you experiment as detailed above.

[nonferrous]

A bit off topic, but I see a note in my Lee manual that suggests that .40 S&W reloads should not be used in Glock pistols, as the chamber does not fully support the cartridge due to the intrusion of the feed ramp.
I know that there must be a lot of guys reloading for the Glock, is this really a problem? Thanks

[HeavyMetal]

Is this 100 pounds clip on ww or 100 pounds stick on ww?

Possibley a mix?

If it's mixed I would sort then "smelt" in a cast iron pot, not your casting pot, keeping the clip on's seperate from the stick on weights.

I would then set up my mold and get a batch together in my casting pot.

I quench cast not for additional hardness but to speed up the process.

I have found air cooling takes time and hot boolits can be "dinged" when your trying to make room on the soft object your dumping them on.

With water you set a rag on the bottom of your container and a floating "sponge" or other suitable material that the boolits can fall through and have at it.

While I cast quickly I always take time to give the base of the boolits at least a fast glance before I open the mold.

If the base isn't filled out I'm doing something wrong and I can make an adjustment if need be.

Since I started using a hot plate with a special set up to hold the mold to keep the sprue plate hot I've found my reject rate has dropped like a rock.

[Crash_Corrigan]

nonferrous: Yup, I have picked up a lot of .40 brass after the local cops shoot their Glocks and about half of them have that nasty guppy belly bulge on one side of the casing from an unsupported area of the chamber.

Notice I said half. Not all....so your .40 may be one of the better ones and you will have lucked out. However all is not lost....Lee makes a bulge buster die to slim down those nasties and it works on 380's 40's and a few others.

I have yet to see a 9 MM case with a guppy gut. If I find a 380 ACP case on the range I cherish it. I bought the extra metal strainer for the Midway Brass Sorter to find those little beauties. 380 Ammo is hard to come by around here and do have and love to shoot a little Llama 380 that looks like a mini 1911 right down to the grip safety. I had bought it for my wife but she having some carpel tunnel and arm nerve problems could not easily work the slide so I bought her something else in 9 MM and kept the Llama for informal plinking etc.

If you have the cases it is a very cheap round to shoot. If you have to buy factory ammo for it.......they are selling like hotcakes in Alaska during the gold rush and bring a hefty price.

I do not load much for the .40 as I do not have one nor do I desire to. That being said there is a narrow window of choices regarding alloy, shape, weight, powder and AOL to follow closely to be successful reloading this round. It is harder to load for than the 9 MM and that is saying something as the 9 is a challenge at times.

[Doby45]

A bit off topic, but I see a note in my Lee manual that suggests that .40 S&W reloads should not be used in Glock pistols, as the chamber does not fully support the cartridge due to the intrusion of the feed ramp.
I know that there must be a lot of guys reloading for the Glock, is this really a problem? Thanks

The Lee manual prolly has not been updated in MANY years. Every since the 2nd generation of Glock 40s the round has been almost completely supported. No different than any other handgun really. My H&K USP40 has a more unsupported chamber than my Gen3 Glock23. I can post pics later of the round in the chamber. But if you are finding "guppied" 40cal Glock brass it is from an old Gen1 Glock.

[fredj338]

so it seems like water quenching is pretty common with the .40? It seemed to me that most people casting .45 don't water quench. Is this the trend? Is it because of the higher velocity of the .40?
Higher pressures, not higher vel. A 180gr 40 runs about 900-950fps, but at a much higher pressure than the 830-900fps 45acp. I am fine w/ straight ac clipon ww win the 40. I cut those 50/50 w/ stickon or pure lead for 45acp & they work fine too. I don;t find waterdropping beneficial until pressure get over 25Kpsi.

[geargnasher]

Higher pressures, not higher vel. A 180gr 40 runs about 900-950fps, but at a much higher pressure than the 830-900fps 45acp. I am fine w/ straight ac clipon ww win the 40. I cut those 50/50 w/ stickon or pure lead for 45acp & they work fine too. I don;t find waterdropping beneficial until pressure get over 25Kpsi.

Exactly.

Gear

[geargnasher]

IMHO, water quenching is wildly overdone. Try without and see what you get.
My guess is 8 of 10 will see no difference except less time and mess. Hardness
is a secondary issue and most treat it as a primary issue. At least try air cooling,
and make sure you have a boolit that is about .001 to .002 larger than the groove
diameter of YOUR barrel, not the "normal" barrel (whatever THAT is!).

You may well find that accuracy is better with harder, I have not, but I do not shoot
a .40. I do shoot 9mm, .357 mag & .44 mag at full max loads with great accy and no
leading with plain base boolits from aircooled wwts with a touch of tin to improve fillout.

Let Mr. Target tell you if you need to water drop. :D

I could be wrong, esp about YOUR gun, but Mr. Target is NEVER wrong. ;-)

Bill

Bill, I agree that water-quenching is overdone, but it's not done often by me. I tried it to see if I could squeeze my groups a bit tighter and maybe reduce the slight leading a bit, it got my groups from 3.5" at 25 to 2" through five consistent ten-shot groups, made a believer out of me for that particular combination, and they weren't sissy loads, either. I have a great AC range scrap (8.5bhn) load for the same pistol now using a pinch of Titegroup, shoots pretty well and barely cycles the action.

Gear

[nonferrous]

Crash,
Thanks for the insight, I do not have a .40 but was thinking of looking for one just to keep up in the horsepower race. I have been loading .38 Spl, .357 and .44 mag for years and years and do enjoy shooting all of them with an unlimited supply of affordable ammo.
I have a 9mm Browning High Power that I really like to shoot, but I have not gotten in to loading for it because I don't know if I would be successful at it.
When you make your own for the other guns, using factory ammo just to shoot the 9 seems wasteful. Thanks again

[Bret4207]

IMHO, water quenching is wildly overdone. Try without and see what you get.
My guess is 8 of 10 will see no difference except less time and mess. Hardness
is a secondary issue and most treat it as a primary issue. At least try air cooling,
and make sure you have a boolit that is about .001 to .002 larger than the groove
diameter of YOUR barrel, not the "normal" barrel (whatever THAT is!).

You may well find that accuracy is better with harder, I have not, but I do not shoot
a .40. I do shoot 9mm, .357 mag & .44 mag at full max loads with great accy and no
leading with plain base boolits from aircooled wwts with a touch of tin to improve fillout.

Let Mr. Target tell you if you need to water drop. :D

I could be wrong, esp about YOUR gun, but Mr. Target is NEVER wrong. ;-)

Bill

Well said Bill. I agree.

Look, WQ is a tool. Now, just like any other tool it can be misused or used for the wrong things or it can not be the right tool and can be a problem. Let the gun tell you what it wants. WQ is easy and cheap, but it isn't always the answer for every gun and load. Changing powder or seating depth can be a tool too and we often forget that not every load works the same way in every gun/brass/boolit combo.

See what the guns and load say before you jump to quenching, juicing your mix, firelapping, etc.

[MtGun44]

Gear - glad you found some extra accy with WQ. This is the proper way to use this tool, seems
like a lot of newbies just start believing the old "harder is better" approach. Also not everyone
can actually tell the difference between a 3.5" load and a 2" load, either. ;-)

Bret - We are in agreement again. I just hate to see the new guys assume that they need WQ
or GCs as a 'requirement' to stop leading or get good accy. I have found great loads for .44
mag and .357 mag with AC WWt and no GCs that shoot great in multiple guns and multiple
brands. Sometimes simpler is better - KISS concept.

WQ and GCs (thread drift warning) are - as you said - useful tools. In my experience,
relatively rarely needed for pistols, but always available if there is a specific problem.

Bill