Input wanted for .223 Loads

[Daryl]

I am loading for a Thompson Contender .223 Carbine - so I know there are different issues with cycling, etc. in semi-autos but I'm not that far along yet.

I'm using the Lyman 225414 mold which should be a 45 grain FN. With gas check, lube, etc. it is closer to 50.

So far, so good, but I have some questions.

With 8.0 Unique I get a 4 shot group of 1/2" (all but one touching) at 50 yards. With 9.0 it is good, but between 1/2" and 1". The Lyman manual has a max of 9.5 grains. These are with WW approx 12BHN.

This is a good load at this point. I was working with RL7 but no velocity data at 16 - 18 grains. Today, I tried 15.0 grains with bullets at 12BHN and heat treated to about 25BHN.

The 15.0 Gr of RL7 grouped with about 2" horizontally and 1/2" vertically with 4 shots with the 12BHN. Interestingly, the 25BHN was much wider with a grouping of maybe 2 1/2" both ways.

So, if I would want increased velocity, at some point the HT bullets would have to be required. Does anyone have any experience where that tipping point may come?

Any velocity data on the RL 7 loads?

The 8.0 of Unique must be pushing 2,000?

[Larry Gibson]

In my 21" TC Contender barrel I use 6.5 gr Unique for 1925 fps and 1 - 1.5" accuracy at 100 yards. That is quite adequate for the ground squirrel hunting I do with that barrel. My bullets weigh 51 gr fully dressed cast of WWs. Both the Contender and my M700V have 12" twists but the same 225415 does best with 18 - 19 gr of H4895 out of the M700V in the 2000 - 2100 fps range. I push that bullet higher when cast of linotype.

Larry Gibson

[JeffinNZ]

DARYL: I can get VERY good accuracy with the 225415 in my .223 over 7gr of Green Dot and that is 2100fps in air cooled wheel weight. This is an indication that pressures are still hovering around the low 20's at best. The 225462 I can get to 2700fps in HTWW over 23gr (IIRC) W748 with about 2 MOA.

If the up coming gun show is good to me in $$$ terms I will have my 225462 HPed in one cavity just for a hoot.

[Daryl]

Ok, back to the range today with only the 8.0 Unique and 9.5 Unique. the 9.5 is shown by Lyman as max load for the 225415 at 2,300 FPS.

I am very pleased with these results.

I use mixed military brass. I am not the best marksman so some of the MOA is me and not the load, I'm sure.

I found the 8.0 to be quite accurate and probably eeks out the 9.5. But, my 4-shot group of 9.5 @ 50 yds was 1 1/4" indicating maybe a 2 MOA or so. But, my final 3-shot group at 100 yds was a vertical string 1 1/8" high.

I was trying to use the Lyman ballistics table as well. At 2,300 FPS it indicated I should have a drop of about 3" between 50 & 100 yds. Zeroed in at 50 and using the same settings at 100 gave me about a 1 1/2" drop. The windage seemed close. There was a very slight breeze so I looked at the 5 MPH line and got about 3" from 50 to 100 and that's about what the targets showed.

Now, as to the loading. On my Dillon 550, after charging the case, I have to take it off the press and use my Lee universal expander on the case mouth then put it back on the Dillon to seat the bullet and crimp it.

I emailed Dillon and they do not have any powder drop dies that expand this case mouth. Is anyone on the forum aware of anyone making or adapting something to do this?

[Larry Gibson]

Daryl

With my 550 when loading cast I put the M die at station 3 and seat at station 4 as I mostly do not crimp when not necessary as with the Contender. The bullet is put in the case mouth at station 3 after the upstroke and just before rotating the shell plate with that case to station 4 for seating.

If you want to crimp you might try this; I always clean the cases, NS/deprime, clean the primer pockets as a complete seperate operation. See if a flared case will slip into the powder funnel (they do on mine for .223). If so then with the already NS'd cases you can put the M-die at station 1 and flare the case mouth there and seat the primer. Then seating is at station 3 and crimping at station 4 as usual.

Larry Gibson

[Daryl]

That is a good idea to try it at station 1. And, since it is for the Contender, I would not have to crimp but I want to load some up that I could use if I picked up a bolt gun what a magazine.

[Daryl]

Larry, what loads are you using and what accuracy/velocity can you achieve? Are you using the Lyman 225415?

[Daryl]

Sorry, Larry, I got the answer from above.

[Doc Highwall]

I am starting to reset up my Dillon 550b for cast bullet shooting and I am going to put a sizing die at station one and a M die at station two and then I can clean and tumble the cases before reloading them. Then with a second tool head I am going to install a universal decapping die at station one to make sure no tumble media is stuck in the flash hole and the powder charge die at station two making sure that the expanded case mouth will enter the Dillon charge die. Station three will have the setting die and station four will have a crimp die if needed.