Am I doing it wrong, or just a bad day?

[armoredman]

I finally made it back out to the range. It's only 13 miles away, so not much excuse. I had three different loads to check, and I wasn't really happy when I was done.

The first was typical, 18.5 grains of AA#1680, 4 inches below point of aim. The second was 19.0 grains of AA#1680, and I expected POI to start pulling up a little higher as velocity increased.

Hmmmm....

That's not a 6 shot group, that's two 3 shot groups.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/castwith52771310C.jpg

Tried a 5 shot group. You ever said, "I should've quit while I was ahead"? That bullseye was shot #1.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/castwith52771310B.jpg

When I moved to 19.5grains, it seemed to fly apart, the first three shot with that was at least 6 inches across! I refused to take a photo of that, I would like to keep SOME dignity! This was a typical 5 shot from that load.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/castwith52771310A.jpg

I had to grab some of the SP loads to see if it was the rifle/load/me/etc.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527baddayattherange.jpg


I think that says it was me...

OK, much lower POI from POA, is this normal? I am not much of a rifleman, so I am curious. The J-words hit at POA, and the cast I have to hold 3-4 inches high to get near the center. I think the data here said 20 grains max for the cast 160grain, so if I can't get POI higher with that, just start adjusting the scope up for cast? Normal?

I need a shooting rest/sandbags...and a fan. I left the range at 0830, and it was already 105. Gah.

Any ideas/suggestions/snickers? I can say the guy shooting the custom 7mm Mag next to me was shooting at least as bad, if not worse...not that it made ME feel any better...

[chris in va]

Guess I'm gonna have to ask a couple basic questions drawing from my pistol casting issues.

How much leading is present in the barrel? Was it cleaned after every group?

What was it slugged at, what is the boolit sized to?

Was it water dropped?

160 grains for x39 seems pretty heavy to me as most FMJ rounds are what...123gr? The heaviest I've seen is a 154gr Wolf hunting round.

[GrizzLeeBear]

OK, much lower POI from POA, is this normal? I am not much of a rifleman, so I am curious. The J-words hit at POA, and the cast I have to hold 3-4 inches high to get near the center. I think the data here said 20 grains max for the cast 160grain, so if I can't get POI higher with that, just start adjusting the scope up for cast? Normal?...

Your cast loads are heavier boolits with lighter powder charges (lower velocity) vs lighter jacketed bullet with more powder (higher velocity). So yes, the jacketed load will have a flatter trajectory and will hit higher.

I don't see much difference in your cast vs. jacketed groups. You are also shooting "unsupported". You will need to shoot from a rest to really tell what your groups are doing.

[MtGun44]

Not shooting with a rest, groups don't mean much. Get a sandbag or a roll of used
carpet, something cheap and try again.

Bill

[armoredman]

Point, don't have anything to use as a rest right now.
chris, towel dropped, no leading I can see in the barrel at all, cleaned at the end of the shooting period, approximately 50 rounds total, with a few j-words thrown in for flavor.
Barrel never slugged, boolit sized to .311. Got good 50 yard accuracy out of it under lighter charges, just trying to get out to 200 yards eventually with groups close to the 2 3/4-3 inch groups I got with 123gr SP. maybe that isn't possible with this one, but it's the only mould I found for this caliber. This is the one mentioned in the thread Practical Dope on the 7.62x39mm in the Military section.
I can't afford a new mould right now, just moved, paying off those bills. Any suggestions?

[mike in co]

awwww...now he says its a 7.62x39.......

what kind of rifle ???


the 7.62x39 round drops like a stone.......
the fmjs are only 2350 or so .......
at 300 its like a 22in drop
at 200 a 9 in drop
with cast its going to be worse.

its a great round out to 200...but much past its drop is an issue

mike in co

[armoredman]

Umm, mike, I have ALWAYS said it's a CZ 527M 7.62x39mm rifle, I don't have the .223 variant. I might have gotten it if I had kept the brass and dies from my abortive experiemnt with a Mini-14. Or were you thinking I was using the 7mm Mag? That was the guy shooting next to me.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527withbushnell2.jpg

Out to 200 drop wasn't that bad, more like 6 inches.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/527/527at200.jpg

That's what I would like to do, or do better, with cast. BTW, that group and a few like it were shot the same way, unsupported. Not sure where I'll get a rest...

[bigboredad]

Do you have a old pair of jeans that you can cut the legs off and fill up with sand to help with a rest?

[armoredman]

Good idea, didn't think of that.

[qajaq59]

Do you have a old pair of jeans that you can cut the legs off and fill up with sand to help with a rest? And if you an old dude like me you can fill it with kitty litter so it'll be lighter. LOL

Also you'd have an easier time if you shot your test loads off the bag and then go to off hand once you get them the way you like.

[mike in co]

have you tried imr4227 ?

mike in co

[bigboredad]

[smilie=l:if you use the kitty litter idea make sure its not used

[armoredman]

There's the problem, we have 5 cats, kitty litter is used for, well, kitty litter....:)
I'll think of something.

[MtGun44]

Scrap of carpet about 24" by 5 ft, rolled up. Unroll a bit for a pad under your elbows, the
rest of the roll as the rest. Ask around, people are junking carpet all the time, you should
be able to find this pretty easily. Great for a prone pad when rolled out.

Bill

[chris in va]

if you use the kitty litter idea make sure its not used

I'd take it used...makes the others next to me go elsewhere.

You guys are convincing me to start casting for these two ladies...

http://a.imageshack.us/img806/8638/p1000139.jpg (http://img806.imageshack.us/i/p1000139.jpg/)

...and now that I just discovered the Lee boolit mold is a 155 grainer, it can be used in my Garand too.

[44man]

I see the problem---5 cats??? :veryconfu

[blackthorn]

Quote: "Scrap of carpet about 24" by 5 ft, rolled up. Unroll a bit for a pad under your elbows, the
rest of the roll as the rest. Ask around, people are junking carpet all the time, you should
be able to find this pretty easily. Great for a prone pad when rolled out."

Take a drive by the local carpet store, they often throw away used carpet from instalation work. If the carpet guy is anti-gun----just drive by his dumpster after hours!

[qajaq59]

There's the problem, we have 5 cats, kitty litter is used for, well, kitty litter.... Yup, I take back my suggeston. You definitely don't want a shooting bag full of kitty litter anywhere near your place. Good grief, would that stink? LOL

[bigboredad]

armoredman

it is also a good idea to have a good pair of shooting shoes when trying for good groups. I opt for some the ones used by one of my personal idols agreat pair of crocs:redneck:

[Maven]

armoredman, Any chance that the scope and/or its mounts & screws are contributing to the problem? Also, do the CB's fit the bore? If too small, have you tried beagling the mold? Inquiring minds want to know!

[armoredman]

No, the boolits seem to fit fine, sized to .311. My FMJ and SP are .310 diameter, work great.
BigBoreDad, I have great shooting shoes - 5.11 boots. :)
No, a bag full of kitty litter would get some unwanted "attention" from my cats, and yes, we have 5, yes, 5, and we love them. Even the two dogs like them, and not as a snack, either. :p:smile:
I like the carpet idea, I think I know where I can get some. BTW, Chris, nice 527M, complete blast to shoot, ain't it?:smile:

[bigboredad]

the one down side of carpet as you get to harder kicking calibers you can get a nasty rug burn[smilie=s:

[armoredman]

I use a piece of carpet already for a cover for the concrete benches, so I might be able to score a piece of that roll tomorrow.
Thanks to all!

[chris in va]

Killing me here. I keep checking back to see if you found the 'magic boolit' that shoots good in your CZ.

[qajaq59]

the one down side of carpet as you get to harder kicking calibers you can get a nasty rug burn You can even get that with a 30-30 if you shoot enough.

[armoredman]

Dagnabbit, I spent too much time watching Babylon 5 on TheWB last night, slept in, missed going to the range. Too hot now. Dang.

Chris, when I discovered Lyman makes a 130 grain boolit mold, I knew I have to try it...but the dadgum mold is FAR more expensive than my Lee ones. I must needs start saving up, I guess, and keep having fun with this one.

[armoredman]

Hmmm, Lyman has not only a 130 grain mold, but a 115 grain mold, too...hmm...

[Tazman1602]

have you tried imr4227 ?

mike in co

Armored -- What Mike said. If you need bag rests I sell either sand or kitty litter filled bags from my shop, this ain't swapping and selling so shoot me a PM if you're interested, price is pretty right.

Keep playing with loads, 7.62x39 ain't the easiest to cast for (read = I gave up...........)

Art

[Eagles6]

Couple things to help. You NEED sand bags. Bigboredad's idea is what I use. Put the sand in plastic bags and put in blue jean legs. Don't even have to sew them up.
Rest your rifle forearm on one and the heel of your stock on the other. Use your left hand to adjust and hold the bag at the rear.
Shoot one round, your cold shot. Mark it and then shoot your 3 shot group. Ignore the cold shot when measuring the group.
Your cast loads will shoot differently than the j bullets, no gettin' around it. Just aim for the bull and worry about group size.
My 155 gr. shoot about 4" low and 1" to the right of my j bullets out of a Model 70 but I get 1-1 1/2 groups at 100 yds.
When the revolution comes and I'm out of j bullets I'll adjust my scope for cast. Otherwise I know where they hit and can use Kentucky windage as the need arises.

[armoredman]

Taz, I'd love to - barely able to afford to pay attention right now. :) I need to find a pair of pants I can sacrifice. :)

[bigboredad]

armoredman
send me a pm with your address and i can send you some pant legs

[armoredman]

:) I think I can come up with those! :) But thanks, very much.

[leadman]

I found my SKS needed a pretty hard boolit, about 18 to 19BHN to get decent groups.
I used the bullet from an old RCBS mold 150-SP.

[azcruiser]

are you shooting at the range in casa grande behind the mountain by rt 8 ? I shot there sometimes was there 2 week ago. Live in Chandler like that range because it not crowded .Want to shoot sometime send me a post first week of the month works b for me by the end of the month I broke

[a.squibload]

Can't help with your groups 'cause I know nothing about shooting ;-) BUT
if you want 40 lbs of kitty litter for $5 (last year's price in town), this fall when they start selling wood pellets
for pellet stoves pick up a couple of bags, you won't go back to clay kitty litter.
Start 'em out by sprinkling some in with the clay stuff. After a while you won't need the clay.
It's flushable too.
Voice of experience, we have 4 evil furbags.

[armoredman]

Never tried that, but the wife is 100% addicted to Arm and Hammer kitty litter, $9 a box.
azcruiser, yes, thats the range, love it, nice and quiet in the early morning weekdays. I go then so I can try to get the 300 yard range pretty much to myself, easier to set up and check targets.

[mroliver77]

aman,
You have a decent mold for 7.62X39. You have an ok powder. Like has been said, you need bags to shoot from. I cannot imagine not being able to come up with a couple pant legs or heavy duty plastic bag and some sand or something to fill it with. If you cannot shoot a decent group with jacketed you will not be able to dial in with cast.
Once you have a load that shoots adjust scope/sights for it and record the setting for jacketed and cast and adjust for each.
Jay

[azcruiser]

Armoredman drop me a post could meet up in August spent my play money this month already but will get more next month YUP retirement not great but it beats working

[armoredman]

I hopeto find that out, crusier, I still have 11 years to go. I'll drop you a line. :)
mrolivier, I did get some good groups at 100 and 200 yards with this rifle, shooting the same way, so I believe it will shoot straight. I'll get some bags together, never fear.