Red Dot on pistols

[Shooter6br]

Put a Tasco Red dot I had around on my Ruger Single Six .I could not beleive how good it shot. i guess my old eyes needed some help. I ordered an Ultradot 30mm to be my main red dot. The tasco never gives me trouble.

[fourarmed]

If your TASCO lasted a short time, it will probably last a long time. The Ultradot is the gold standard for moderately priced red dot sights. They have kept me competitive with the young guys in bullseye.

[jh45gun]

I have a Bushnell Trophy with the multiple reticules on my Smith and Wesson 22A and it has been a great red dot.

[part_timer]

Add another fan of the Ultradot. We use em on pistlos and rifles

[Baldy]

I have a TruGlo 40mm red dot on a Ruger .22/45 and it put me back in the game. My eyes are long gone.

[bobthenailer]

at 62 those red dot sights are great ! i have them on allmost all of my handguns, plus 3 rifles and a air pistol . the price range is from $35.00 to $600.00 for the red dot scopes

[Frank]

A red dot actually doesn't correct for bad vision close up. A scope does. How come?

[Whitworth]

Add another fan of the Ultradot. We use em on pistlos and rifles


And yet another!

[Shooter6br]

Single Six with old Tasco with a weigand mount

[XBT]

Leupold-Gilmore LG-1 on a Ruger MKII.

I don’t like dealing with the off-on switch and batteries, but I do like the compactness and light weight.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y9/retiredBT/ruger2.jpg

[primersp]

i have change an old aimpoint for an ultra dot 30 very happy ,is somebody use an sightron ?
i like theirs scopes for the quality and price ,why not their dot
use on tc 7tcu

[Doc Highwall]

Frank, to answer your question it is because the scope is focused for a distance closer the infinity like the red dots and a scope with parallax adjustment will get even better along with a focusing eye piece.

[Frank]

Do they make a red dot with a focusing eyepiece?

[Dale53]

After my vision went south, I tried a Red Dot on a revolver. It worked so well I now have nearly a dozen of them.

I have had excellent results with Bushnell's, then Simmons 30mm, and Ultra Dots.

The Ultra Dots work with the "Big Boomers" and the Simmons work well up to and including the .44 Magnums.

I much prefer the 30mm size as it is easier to "find the hole" and they have a wider field of view. Any bigger and the gun/Red Dot combination gets unweildy.

Here is a 625-8 JM Special with a Simmons:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/SW625-8JMSpecial-3351.jpg

Here is a Ruger SP 101 with a Bushnell Red Dot:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/DalesPistolsRevolvers5Selects-0261.jpg

Here is a 1911 with a Bushnell Red Dot with slide mount:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/4DalesPistolsRevolversSelects-3326.jpg

Here is an S&W Model 629 Light Hunter with an Ultra Dot:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QDalesRevolversandPistols-1728.jpg



Dale53

[Doc Highwall]

I have not looked lately at red dot sights because of my concentration on rifle shooting. The last two hand gun scopes I purchased were both Burris 2x-7x and 3x-12x with parallel adjustment. Maybe one of the dot scopes with magnification will have an eye focus adjustment.

[Frank]

Doc, I took the Leupold 4X off the 45-70 BFR and use the Matchdot. But the dot isn't sharp, unless I shoot Creedmore. For the bench I use the Merit optical device. So I'm now a little disappointed with red dots on handguns.

[Doc Highwall]

Frank, it sounds like you need about .25 to .375 max more plus prescription to your glasses. I saw some where that some body made stick on plastic lenses for bifocals maybe you could try some thing like that for your Merit eye piece.

[Frank]

But then you lose the target, right? The Merit somehow eliminates that problem. I don't know how it does that because I'm a dummy, but it does it.

[Doc Highwall]

Frank that is why I said to use only 1/4 to 3/8 diopter if you can find 1/8 diopter maybe that will work but you are right too much magnification and the target will blurr out.

[Dale53]

If your eyes are properly corrected for distance, then the Red Dot will be sharp. I struggled with that right after I started using Red Dot sights and kind of "blamed" the Red Dots. However, when I realized the problem was my prescription, I had it corrected and NOW my dot is sharp on all of my different brand red dot sights.

The merit disc will work fine with handguns and broaden your depth of field (often leading to both target and reticule sharpness) but I have had poor results with it on rifles simply because cheeking the rifle causes repositioning of the disc mounted on my shooting glasses.

With the Red Dots simply make sure your prescription for distance is correct then you SHOULD BE "good to go"...

Dale53

[ole 5 hole group]

I’ve really got to pull the trigger and purchase a red dot for some of my revolvers. I’ve been on the brink of getting a JPoint but the lack of mounts for certain revolvers has kept the money in my pocket so far. What are the thoughts on these sights relative to sharpness and ease of use say between the tube red dots such as the Ultra Dot, Leupold Delta Point, Bushnell Trophy Series, Zeiss Victory and the heads up red dots such as JPoint, Burris FastFire, C-More Systems and Trijicon Red Dots? The difference in size & shape has to be for a reason I would think but when it comes to optics, I’ve been a dummy longer than Frank has. What is a good recommendation for a red dot set up on a revolver with a power factor of a 475 Linebaugh to be carried in a belt holster and used mainly in an off-hand non-supported shooting position.

[Dale53]

ole 5 hole group;
The only Red Dot I have on a big boomer is an Ultra Dot on a Taurus Raging Bull in .454 Casull. However, I have not yet shot mine extensively with this combination but gentlemen on this forum that I respect have used them extensively on the big boomers without problems.

Simmons (direct from their technician at the NRA Convention) told me that their Red Dots will work very well on anything up to and including the .44 Magnum but to NOT use them on anything at the level of a .454 Casull or above. I have extensive use with them on the lesser recoiling revolvers and autos and they have worked VERY well without problems.

YMMV
Dale53

[Whitworth]

A belt holster will be a problem when using a tube-type red dot. I have an Ultradot 30 on my .475 Linebaugh and it has withstood thousands of full-tilt rounds and it hasn't skipped a beat. I highly recommend Ultradot.

[fecmech]

I’ve really got to pull the trigger and purchase a red dot for some of my revolvers. I’ve been on the brink of getting a JPoint but the lack of mounts for certain revolvers has kept the money in my pocket so far. What are the thoughts on these sights relative to sharpness and ease of use say between the tube red dots such as the Ultra Dot, Leupold Delta Point, Bushnell Trophy Series, Zeiss Victory and the heads up red dots such as JPoint, Burris FastFire, C-More Systems and Trijicon Red Dots? The difference in size & shape has to be for a reason I would think but when it comes to optics, I’ve been a dummy longer than Frank has. What is a good recommendation for a red dot set up on a revolver with a power factor of a 475 Linebaugh to be carried in a belt holster and used mainly in an off-hand non-supported shooting position.

The main downside to J points and their ilk is the lack of brightness control. They are too bright IMO most of the time which may or may not be a problem for you. Small targets ( 2-4" in diameter) at 30 yds and further out can be totally obscured by the bright dot. Hunting deer or pigs etc there would be no problem or any larger targets. I own 2 such sights, an old Tasco Optima and a J point and I had the Optima on the slide of my .45 Auto for about 5 years and 5-6K rds with no problem. I had the J point on a 9mm High power and I had some problems with the lens loosening up but J point stood behind their sight 100 %. I have no idea how it would do on a .475. Oh and one other thing, the cover on the Jpoints etc is what turns the dot off. They just snap on and could easily get lost walking through the woods or brush. The alternative would be to leave them on all the time. The big plus side to these sights is of course their lack of bulk and weight.
I'm currently 67 years old and red dots have really extended my handgun enjoyment. A few years ago before I went to dots I was loosing interest in my handguns because of the close focus thing us old farts get. This past week I shot 33 out of 40 in Hunters pistol silhouette with my dot sighted K-38 so I'm still at least a little competitive.

[Dale53]

. A few years ago before I went to dots I was loosing interest in my handguns because of the close focus thing us old farts get.

This is what drove me to Red Dots. After using one, I was so entranced I ordered another, then another, and now I have probably about a dozen of them mounted on various pistols and revolvers. Needless to say, I am HIGH on them as they have given me back my performance level.


Regarding the belt holster "problem" with Red Dots (and scopes), there are several possible solutions. Belt Holsters can be made specifically with the Red Dots in mind. A fanny pack can often work well. My choice is a cross chest holster for large revolvers with scopes or red dots installed. My preference is the Bianchi "Hush" system Ranger rig. It is extremely well made, all day comfortable in the mountains and holds the pistol or revolver ready for use even when carrying a pack.

Red Dots are not a "magic bullet", but they WILL allow you to reach your potential when iron sights are no longer viable for you. Half the guys on the line at Camp Perry are probably using Red Dots now.

Dale53

[ole 5 hole group]

I appreciate all the advice. I’ve done my homework relative to the power factor on these red dots by talking to their tech reps and the Ultra Dot, Leupold Delta Point, Bushnell Red Dot Zoom model number 730001 will hold up to 475 Linebaugh & 500 Smith loads – the Zeiss Z-Point is a maybe, as the techs have had no feedback relative to hand cannon use and they were hesitant/not recommending their red dots for use on the hard recoiling revolvers but stated the Z-Point was fine for shotguns. The heads-up red dots such as JPoint, Burris FastFire and the railway model (ARW) from C-More Systems will hold up to heavy recoiling revolvers such as the 475L and 500 Smith. The Trijicon models such as their RMR and 1X24 & 1X42 have only been tested on 454 Casull’s, which says a lot, and they have a recoil rating of 1,100 g-force in a .2 millisecond pulse wave, so I would think that should be sufficient for any Linebaugh or Smith calibers.

I’m a year behind ya Fecmech and I feel I could really benefit from the red dot, as I find myself semi-blocking that front sight a lot lately, as I can’t focus very well. With the red dot I think I'll just be able to use the 6 O’clock sight picture and let it rip – a good quality compact red dot should get me a little more respect from crows & other vermin that currently have little fear of my first shot at ranges past 50 yards, plus I should be able to get 10 rounds into a bushel basket at 100 yards a little more often. Anyone with some experience with the heads-up red dots please just post up or send me a PM/Email, as I’m going to get one before the summer is out – I’ve squirreled away a little stash, so price won’t be my limiting factor – but quality and weight will.

[Shooter6br]

Got my Ultradot 30mm yesterday. I like the "feel, the smell, the taste of it" LOL Seriously it is a quality scope. The Tasco is going back to my 45 ACP mech tech carbine

[Shooter6br]

Mech Tech 45ACP Loves cast bullets

[JesterGrin_1]

Ultra Dot Match Dot. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0069.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/SHAKERATTLEROLL/IMAG0073.jpg

[ole 5 hole group]

Well, as they say, either sh*t or get off the pot – so I got off the pot & pulled the trigger on a red dot. For the money & quality I don’t think a person could go wrong with the ultra dot in the tube model or the Fastfire II in the heads-up model. With that said, I purchased the Leupold Delta Point with the 7.5 MOA delta dot. Cost me $400 and with free shipping - I know that means it’s coming by moccasin, so I should have it in 2 weeks and then we’ll see if ole farts can recapture some ole glory of days past. This optic has a lifetime guarantee and Leupold is the only company that I know of using the delta as the “dot”. With both eyes open and using the tip of the delta point as my aiming point, life should improve.

[Frank]

ole 5-hole said group said

as I find myself semi-blocking that front sight a lot lately


a good quality compact red dot should get me a little more respect from crows & other vermin that currently have

A little more, but you may still be out of focus as there is no eyepiece adjustment. Maybe not, depends on your eyes.

[Changeling]

Now my interest has peaked! Is there any difference between the 30 mm match dot and standard. What I mean is those of you with experience with these scopes have a preference for any reason between the two.
My Ruger SBH 44Mag is tapped for a scope mount and my Ruger Mark 1 .22 has a Weaver type base I could use.

Any advise on these dot scopes would be appreciated.

I noticed that they have 4 reticle sizes 4,6,8,12, do any of you actually use 8 and 12 power reticles. I've never even looked through a dot scope so please don't chastise me for ignorance of them.

[ole 5 hole group]

Frank, that could very well be but I won’t be wiggling and wobbling that front sight around – Seems to me I’ll just have to get my timing down with the tip of the delta dot and all the front sight/rear sight alignment drills I’ve been doing for 55 years or so, no longer applies. That delta dot isn't too small, that's for sure. Just seems to me it has to be easier using that delta tip at 6 o’clock, as I’ve always considered it downright cheating to use a dot sight in a 2700 match (NRA conventional outdoor pistol). Can you imagine what the likes of Herschel Anderson, Bonnie Harmon, Bill Blankenship, Huelet Benner & Gil Hebard, to name a few could have done with red dots – the record book scores would sure be a little different in my opinion.


Changeling – The majority of the red dot scopes are zero power sometimes written as 1X – same thing, meaning no magnification. The Bushnell Red Dot Zoom model number 730001 has a zoom dot, whereas the dot can be changed from 1 MOA to 10 MOA, which seems to be a nice feature and that model will hold up to 454, 475 and 500’s according to their tech department. The numbers 4,6,8,10 etc is the dot size – a #4 dot covers 4 inches at 100 yards etc. If you shoot with both eyes open (can’t imagine you don’t) then the dot size shouldn’t matter, as you can still see the entire target at any range and you just put the dot where you intend the bullet to go. In my opinion, I think the red dot should be held at the 6 o’clock position of your intended target and have the bullet strike at the very top of your dot-or higher if you’re shooting bullseye targets. If you intend shooting from 40 yards to 200 yards without adjusting the sights, then you’ll just have to know your revolver and just move the dot accordingly – just like you’re currently doing with open sights now but without the alignment process.

[Changeling]

5 Hole, I'm aware of what MOA means and am aware the numbers correlate to 100yd.

If you can actually use the the 6 O'Clock hold, I mean if things are that sharp, GREAT.

I guess my biggest question is :

Is there any difference between the 30 mm match dot model and standard model, 1 inch tube. What I mean is those of you with "experience" with these scopes have a preference for one are the other, 30MM or "1 inch tube" model and why?

Personally I would like to keep things as small as possible (tube size) as long as it is not a really big deal for some reason that I am not aware of.

In normal scopes, I am not a fan of the 30mm tubes because of the extra weight/bulk, and I have never had a 1 inch tube quality scope lacking in anything, my opinion.


This is another Ultradot scope, what about it?

UltraDot L/T Holographic Red Dot Sight 1x 26mm 2 and 4 MOA Dot with Integral Weaver-Style Base Matte

[fecmech]

Changeling-- There is very little difference between the 1" and 30 MM tubes as far as weight or even field of view when used at arms length on a handgun. Less than 1 oz. with the ultra dots I think. I have a 30 MM Ultra Dot and a 1" Millet, there is not a big difference between the two other than dot size. The Ultradot is a 5 moa dot and the Millet is 3 MOA and I like the 3 MOA dot better for precision but again not much difference. I don't think the 6 O'clock hold is the best idea with dot sights IMO but that is obviously up to the user. They are designed to center on the target and you get excellent precision the same way your eye centers the front sight with aperture sights. A couple weeks ago playing around with my K38 at 100yds (I use the gun in Hunters Pistol Silhouette) off the bench I shot 3 six shot groups at 100 yds, 2 1/8" ,3" , 3 1/4". I used the standard bullseye b6 8" bullseye and centered the dot in the black. You get excellent definition with red dots in black bullseyes unlike black open sights.
Can't help you with the holographic sights as I have not used them.

[crabo]

Now my interest has peaked! Is there any difference between the 30 mm match dot and standard. What I mean is those of you with experience with these scopes have a preference for any reason between the two.
My Ruger SBH 44Mag is tapped for a scope mount and my Ruger Mark 1 .22 has a Weaver type base I could use.

Any advise on these dot scopes would be appreciated.

I noticed that they have 4 reticle sizes 4,6,8,12, do any of you actually use 8 and 12 power reticles. I've never even looked through a dot scope so please don't chastise me for ignorance of them.

I like the UltraDot 4. If hunting in a cornfield, you can use a bigger dot for quicker sight acquisition and the smaller for more precise long range. You can also sit the larger red dots on top of a target and use it as hold over and drop it into the target.

I like 30mm tubes better because of the larger field of view. I have a 50mm Truglo that I like, except for the fact that it is coming apart.

[Changeling]

If your eyes are properly corrected for distance, then the Red Dot will be sharp. I struggled with that right after I started using Red Dot sights and kind of "blamed" the Red Dots. However, when I realized the problem was my prescription, I had it corrected and NOW my dot is sharp on all of my different brand red dot sights.

The merit disc will work fine with handguns and broaden your depth of field (often leading to both target and reticule sharpness) but I have had poor results with it on rifles simply because cheeking the rifle causes repositioning of the disc mounted on my shooting glasses.

With the Red Dots simply make sure your prescription for distance is correct then you SHOULD BE "good to go"...

Dale53

If someones eyes are giving them problems at distance why don't you just get the "Lasic" (spelling?) surgery, I know a few people who have gotten it and the worst of them is now getting awesome vision at distance and some have been totally corrected vision wise.
It's something you have to let the doctor tell you, and not people on the Internet. I DON'T mean by going to Walmart/SAM's or any other of the companies that hire 3rd world doctors/technicians !
I'm talking a US citizen that has credentials from the US at a well know and respected college. Just common sense!

[Changeling]

I got so carried away on the getting eyes straight reply I forgot.

After listening to what everyone had to say about the "Ultradot" scopes I decided to get one so I searched the Internet to find the best deal. Several places had them at what appeared to be fair deals till you added in shipping, then things fell apart real fast !

I didn't want a 30MM one because it would have made me start looking for 30 mm bases for a Ruger Mark 1 .22 (not tapped) and new bases for some other guns I intended to try it on before buying another if I really liked it. This way it is just a matter of switching it.
Mainly though, I wanted to keep things compact as possible, so I decided to get the "Ultradot 4 1" model)

Anyway I thought some of you might want to know that the best deal I found was at a "Larry's Guns", free shipping over $100.00 and the cheapest price. $180.00 total.

[Frank]

Changeling said
If someones eyes are giving them problems at distance why don't you just get the "Lasic" (spelling?) surgery, I know a few people who have gotten it and the worst of them is now getting awesome vision at distance and some have been totally corrected vision wise.

Distance is fine. It's just close up that's the problem for those who need reading glasses and have a red dot. Sure, they will see red and can still go "bang", but it's a compromise. When you're shooting 1" groups with a revolver, a scope or a clear dot is necessary. [smilie=s:

[44man]

I got so carried away on the getting eyes straight reply I forgot.

After listening to what everyone had to say about the "Ultradot" scopes I decided to get one so I searched the Internet to find the best deal. Several places had them at what appeared to be fair deals till you added in shipping, then things fell apart real fast !

I didn't want a 30MM one because it would have made me start looking for 30 mm bases for a Ruger Mark 1 .22 (not tapped) and new bases for some other guns I intended to try it on before buying another if I really liked it. This way it is just a matter of switching it.
Mainly though, I wanted to keep things compact as possible, so I decided to get the "Ultradot 4 1" model)

Anyway I thought some of you might want to know that the best deal I found was at a "Larry's Guns", free shipping over $100.00 and the cheapest price. $180.00 total.
Ultra Dot West pays shipping and Larry's guns does warranty work on them if something ever happens. Both great places to deal with.

[Changeling]

Ultra Dot West pays shipping and Larry's guns does warranty work on them if something ever happens. Both great places to deal with.


Jim, that's something that is good to know, I never even checked into that and I should have, thanks for the reply and info.
BTW, check your "snail mail" about Thursday.

Frank said-
"distance is fine. It's just close up that's the problem for those who need reading glasses and have a red dot. Sure, they will see red and can still go "bang", but it's a compromise. When you're shooting 1" groups with a revolver, a scope or a clear dot is necessary."

I can see you have been checking this out fairly well. I don't know if I jumped the gun or not but no one around here has one I could try so, I figured I would give it a go and see what the possibilities are, and take it from there.
Hopefully it will make target acquisition "FAST" on my Mark 1 .22 for ground hogs, squirrels and especially those chipmunks that have found a way into my attic and wrecked it :sad:
Ever try to "hit" a scouring chipmunk Frank[smilie=b: :holysheep

[Ed K]

I didn't want a 30MM one because it would have made me start looking for 30 mm bases

30mm is the diameter of the tube - not the dimensions of the base. Both the 30mm and the 1" Ultradot will fit on the same Weaver base

[Changeling]

30mm is the diameter of the tube - not the dimensions of the base. Both the 30mm and the 1" Ultradot will fit on the same Weaver base


That I didn't know, never owned anything but (1"), I guess I just assumed! Every time I assume anything seems it comes back and bites me!

Anyway, it was the extra bulk that deterred me, I want to keep things as simple and small as possible.

Thanks a lot Ed for straitening me out on this.:D

[44man]

We mounted Whitworths Ultra Dot on his BFR .500 JRH but the only rings I had left were the ones that come with the Ultra Dot.
They are holding just fine. I like Warne rings but the aluminum rings are doing just great.
You don't need 3 or 4 rings on the Ultra Dot because it is light.
The only thing wrong with ANY red dot is they have no way to focus the dots. It has not hurt my hunting but when I shoot target my glasses are good enough. My friend sees a star instead of a dot and he kills piles of deer.
I can shoot groups as good or better then I can with a scope and the most important thing is that I can hunt in dim light where a scope is useless.
I have also wiped out a pile of cheap red dots and scopes on my revolvers but the Ultra Dots are going strong. The only problem I had with one was the switch screws came loose and Larry's guns fixed it free. Lifetime warranty. Fast service and perfect work.
I do not like to put rings over glass on them. I put the front extension on and tighten it with one of those rubber wrenches. I put the front ring on the extension.
Scopes of any kind on hard kicking revolvers is a tough learning curve. The heavier a scope is, the more problems you have. Even light ones can be a problem. I called Bushnell about the heads up display and they told me no, it would break on some of my guns.
It is why I don't want to spend $300 for one that only has a one year or two year warranty.
I have gutted scopes before even getting sighted in. Be careful how you spend your money.

[Frank]

44man said
I put the front extension on and tighten it with one of those rubber wrenches.
Right, the rubber wrench. I haven't gotten one yet. Or the classic 44man sling swivel on a revolver. Is that because the BFR is heavy to carry, or is that for when you fall asleep in the stand? :drinks:

[44man]

44man said
Right, the rubber wrench. I haven't gotten one yet. Or the classic 44man sling swivel on a revolver. Is that because the BFR is heavy to carry, or is that for when you fall asleep in the stand? :drinks:
You got that right, snoozing in the stand is the worst.
Whitworth had a stand break while FL pig hunting and he dropped his gun. Slings are great.
The revolver and Ultra Dot hit the stand and ground but never went out of zero.

[Shooter6br]

According to the web site of Weigand scope mounts a 30mm has 28% larger field of view vs 25mm (1 in) red dot just a thought

[Whitworth]

You got that right, snoozing in the stand is the worst.
Whitworth had a stand break while FL pig hunting and he dropped his gun. Slings are great.
The revolver and Ultra Dot hit the stand and ground but never went out of zero.

Yes indeed! The fall never affected zero -- 12 foot fall.

[pistolman44]

I put one on a S&W Classic Hunter 6" .41 mag. It sure made a world of difference for these old eyes of mine. My groups shrunk right away after sighting it in.

[Changeling]

I went with this brand because I had heard you and others talk about them over time. However not once did I hear anyone say a realistic negative about the UltraDot scopes.
I bought the UltraDot 4 even though it was somewhat heavier than the earlier versions. Plus, I will be able to use the bigger dots as holdover estimators when shooting at longer ranges (for fun, not game) past 100 yd.

Secondly, I do daily shooting at ground hogs, crows, chipmunks, whatever, straight from my deck so the first place the UltraDot is going will be my Ruger Mk 1 Bull barrel .22.
A lot of people look down there noses at .22's witch is a big mistake in my opinion! They can set the stage so to speak for everything you will know later on as you step up to larger calibers. Unfortunately it is a hard lesson to get across to some!

[Frank]

Changeling asked
Ever try to "hit" a scouring chipmunk Frank?
Rats would poke their head out of the vent hole at my old house. One bang and no more poke. 8-)

[ghh3rd]

My eyes crapped out on me quite a while back, but I've been able to get by if I pull my glasses out about an inch and tilt them up, and let my headphones hold them in place... look goofy, but can see the sights and target.

However, when I got my Ruger SBH .44 for hunting, I figured that I wouldn't have time to put on headphones, pull my glasses out, and tilt them up -- so I got an UltraDot 30mm, and it was really an eye opener! So easy to put the dot on the target and squeeze the trigger; instant success! I need the same thing for my other revolver/pistols.

Randy

[Changeling]

Changeling asked
Rats would poke their head out of the vent hole at my old house. One bang and no more poke. 8-)

Cool! When I was a kid I worked on an egg ranch (yes they had chickens), the owner was a very unique individual ! One day he told me that he would give me $0.05 for every rat I shot and showed him, he would buy the .22 ammo, man I was in heaven, at least for about a month. Then he withdrew the offer, LOLAL.

[Dale53]

Most of the Red Dots I have (Simmons AND Ultra Dots) come with 30mm rings that fit Weaver style rails.

Of course, before you order, you definitely want to check on that - things have a habit of changing some times.

The advantage of the 30mm for me, is I find it easier to "find the hole" in addition to the 30mm having a wider field of view. However, I have several 1" Red Dots and use them without problems.

Keep in mind, like anything new, you will have to learn to use them to best advantage. That happens as you use them...

Dale53

[sergeant69]

will the ultra dot MATCHDOT scope stand up to .44mag. recoil?

[Dale53]

sergrant69;
If you read through this thread you will see the answer to your question. Ultra Dots hold up with the big boomers. There are several calibers that are a LOT worse (VERY heavy recoil) than the .44 Magnum. Ultra Dots work well with them, also.

I use Simmons Red Dots on the lighter recoiling calibers. They have good adjustments (repeatable), have four different reticules, and cost less than $50.00 (Overstock.com). That is a combination that is hard to beat. The Simmons Techs that I talked to at the NRA Convention state that they are good for recoil up to and including .44 Magnum but NO heavier recoil (do NOT put them on a 454 Casull).

Ultra Dots are in the $200.00 category but WILL stand heavier recoil like the 454's and above.

I only have two Ultra Dots but have 6-8 Simmons and 4-5 Bushnell's (1").

FWIW
Dale53

[sergeant69]

i DID read thru the thread, at about 2 AM after working 13 hours and 2 40 creek and cokes.

[sergeant69]

just pulled the trigger on a matchdot. will let ya know how it works out.

[Dale53]

sergeant69;
For the record, my comments were not meant as a criticism, not at all. I can see how they may have come across that way.

I think that you will be very happy with the Matchdot after you become accustomed to it. It just takes a bit of use and you will wonder how you EVER got along without it.

Dale53

[Changeling]

Do you guys find the Ultra Dots "FAST" to acquire a sight picture and shoot? That is one of my biggest concerns, I need some thing that is faster than open sites (not that they are necessarily slow) but the faster I can acquire a sight picture the better I like it, especially on running/moving shots where I can "Not" let the trigger go back all the way and literally let the next shot go off almost by just thinking. This is a pure must on moving targets but one must be able to control the sight picture and trigger pull.

If you don't understand what I said just say so and I will try another approach so that it is clearer.


PS, I wish that Ultra Dot would get here! It's been 7 days since order and I haven't even received a shipping notice.

Feel like a kid with his first toy, and can't play wit it LOL>

[fecmech]

I find the tube (ultra dot) type faster to acquire the dot than I do the optima/Jpoint heads up type.
I have to flip my wrist around a bit on the J points to find the dot but that might just be me.

[ole 5 hole group]

I find the tube (ultra dot) type faster to acquire the dot than I do the optima/Jpoint heads up type.
I have to flip my wrist around a bit on the J points to find the dot but that might just be me.

As Dale53 advised, "you will have to learn to use them to best advantage" and that will take some practice. I just received & mounted my Leupold DeltaPoint and after an hour of playing around I can bring it up and the delta will be in the heads-up display more than 50% of the time. It'll take a little time but I think it'll be pretty fast from the holster once you get use to it. I won't be able to break this puppy in until Monday or later but I really like the size (7.5 MOA) and that delta is really sharp & clear for me. I see no reason why using the tip of the delta won't get me the same accuracy as a 4X scope does at 50 yards and I should be right in there at 100 and beyond as well. If this works out I'll have to start drilling & tapping holes in my older model revolvers for weaver type bases.

The revolver is the JR500

[sergeant69]

sergeant69;
For the record, my comments were not meant as a criticism, not at all. I can see how they may have come across that way.

I think that you will be very happy with the Matchdot after you become accustomed to it. It just takes a bit of use and you will wonder how you EVER got along without it.

Dale53

no problem. i saw the ultradot four mentioned a lot in the threads but not the matchdot. thats why i asked about it. why would it take a" bit of use" to get accustomed to it? never having owned/shot one b4, seems like all you have to do is superimpose the red dot over the target and use good trigger pull technique and thats it. what am i missing?

[Dale53]

I discovered that when I first started to use a scope (and later a Red Dot) that I had to learn how to present the pistol or revolver to have the Scope Reticule or Red Dot to be on target when presented without "hunting" for it.

Make sure your revolver is empty (then do it again) and practice in the home. Hold the handgun down at your side, present it smoothly and within a few sessions it will become natural.

When you have learned, and DO take time to learn, then it can be VERY fast and efficient.

Dale53

[sniper]

Yesssss! Red dot sights are a goodness for older eyes! I put a Burris Fast Fire II on my Ruger MK II, and the fun is back! I can hit the target, and do it with a respectable group, too. I put a HI-Viz front sight on my Single Six, with the same results. Definitely worth the money , imo.:-D

[Edubya]

As Dale53 advised, "you will have to learn to use them to best advantage" and that will take some practice. I just received & mounted my Leupold DeltaPoint and after an hour of playing around I can bring it up and the delta will be in the heads-up display more than 50% of the time. It'll take a little time but I think it'll be pretty fast from the holster once you get use to it. I won't be able to break this puppy in until Monday or later but I really like the size (7.5 MOA) and that delta is really sharp & clear for me. I see no reason why using the tip of the delta won't get me the same accuracy as a 4X scope does at 50 yards and I should be right in there at 100 and beyond as well. If this works out I'll have to start drilling & tapping holes in my older model revolvers for weaver type bases.

The revolver is the JR500

5 hole, can you give us an update?

I sure do like the looks of your Bushnell.

EW

[ole 5 hole group]

The red dot is a Leupold and the particular model that I have is called the Delta Point. I shoot about as well with it as I could shoot my match pistols 40 years ago. There’s just no comparison, in my mind, between the dot/point and open sights. These magical/electronic sights are the cat’s meow and superior to iron sights in about every way, except possibly strength and ease of use with a holster.

An individual with good strength & endurance, possessing excellent eyesight and eye hand coordination can shoot iron sights extremely well with enough practice. Those who were able to break 2600 and 2650 in the 2700 pistol matches proved that in spades back in the 60’s. The National 2700 Record shot with iron sights still stands and there are a lot of excellent shooters using dots that are trying to better it every week.

For me, I can hold groups to 50 yards about as well using this delta point as I could with the scope. At 100 yards I’m a lot more consistent with the scope, even though the X-hairs are dancing around the 2” red dot on the target. At 100 yards, rested, with a scope, I can shoot 5-shot groups measuring a little under 3” fairly consistent. With the delta point, I’m doing 3” 3-shot group with the other two shots opening the group up to 4” to 6”s. A few times I’ve shot groups close to 12” at 100 yards, which was the result of poor gun handling by me. I think I’ll do better with a little more practice with this “magical sight” but 100 yards is a long way with my Smith 500, as it weighs a ton and doesn't settle down for me on the bags. I’m confident that young, strong shooters will be able to consistently shoot smaller groups with the red dots compared to iron sights at ranges of 50 yards and greater and it’s a no-brainer for us ole farts.

I was out today and the sky was overcast – I occasionally had a slight blurring or half a ghost image and would have to move the delta around the heads-up display to sharpen it up. Didn’t have that problem on sunny days but I haven’t shot into the sun yet – just overhead and behind me. Didn’t happen much and it wouldn’t be a problem shooting at game animals – more of a nuisance shooting from the bench.

Found a great load for the 454 – using cut down 460 brass and WLP primers – 340 grain HC in front of 10.0 grains of HS-6 shot from a BFR with 6” barrel. Recoil about like a 38 Special and 30 rounds went into 2” at 25 yards. First 5 shots were a hair under 0.5” but when I tried to put 5 more in that ragged hole I opened it up some, so I just poured all the rounds that I had loaded up into that target. I have open sights on the 454 but they are of the One Ragged Hole aperture type. I’ll try to chronograph that load next week but I’m thinking it should be around 900/950fps.

IMO, these types of light weight sights will assist the handgun hunter in taking large game at very impressive distances. Dustin Linebaugh, who is an excellent revolver shooter, was able to take an 8.5 foot Alaskan Grizzly at a range of 176 yards, making lethal hits 3 out of 3 shots at that range with his open sighted 475 Linebaugh revolver. That is no small feat, but Dustin is an impressive shot with the heavy revolver. I believe with the red dot sight, this feat can be accomplished on a regular basis with a good marksman, who never before trusted his ability to keep perfectly aligned sights at that yardage.

[Frank]

Had a good group going with my Redhawk, 45 Colt at 50 yds Creedmore. Shots began to open up. Suspecting the sight since it broke the screw last time, I took off the Ultradot Pan-V sight and this is what I found. On the left is the screw from the last time. On the right is Ultradot's replacement screw. At bottom of the pic is the mount and slot. At least with a tube sight it would only be a ring change.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2838

[crabo]

why would it take a" bit of use" to get accustomed to it? never having owned/shot one b4, seems like all you have to do is superimpose the red dot over the target and use good trigger pull technique and thats it. what am i missing?

To me this is backwards. The key for me is to look at the target, and while looking at the target, bring the dot up into the target, then use good trigger technique.

You will learn how to lock your wrist so it works. It comes pretty fast once you start practicing it. I hope this makes sense.

[fecmech]

[QUOTE=Frank;977684]Had a good group going with my Redhawk, 45 Colt at 50 yds Creedmore. Shots began to open up. Suspecting the sight since it broke the screw last time, I took off the Ultradot Pan-V sight and this is what I found. On the left is the screw from the last time. On the right is Ultradot's replacement screw. At bottom of the pic is the mount and slot. At least with a tube sight it would only be a ring change.


Looks like the recoil inertia exceeds the tensile strength of the mount screws!

[Dale53]

Frank;
You need a better bolt. Go to your local Lowes, Home Depot, or a GOOD, old fashioned hardware store and get "Class 8" bolts, They are heat treated and I believe that your "bolt problems" will be over.

Dale53

[Frank]

fechmech says
Looks like the recoil inertia exceeds the tensile strength of the mount screws!

Dale53 says
Frank;
You need a better bolt. Go to your local Lowes, Home Depot, or a GOOD, old fashioned hardware store and get "Class 8" bolts, They are heat treated and I believe that your "bolt problems" will be over.


Thanks, guys. Maybe I can get a Grade 8 longer screw and put a lockwasher and nut on the other side.

[44man]

fechmech says

Dale53 says

Thanks, guys. Maybe I can get a Grade 8 longer screw and put a lockwasher and nut on the other side.
That won't help, just get the stronger screw and leave the nut and washer off.
It looks like the scope is holding up though. Most heads up dots are not built for heavy recoil and they worry me.
The clamp would do better if it had 3 screws to line up with 3 slots.
Push the dot forward on the base when putting it back on to keep the screws tight against the front of the slots.
I can't count the scopes and dots I have torn up on revolvers but so far I have had no damage to Ultra Dots.
I agree that good opens sights are still good but when you get my age you have to wonder if they fell off in the holster! :groner:

[Dale53]

After you get the Class 8 bolt/screws make sure that it is no longer than necessary. Tighten it well (but not TOO tight - you don't want to break it or strip the threads in the base) and use Blue Loc-Tite. It won't come loose and you'll be able to remove it when/if necessary.

Dale53

[Frank]

I said
Maybe I can get a Grade 8 longer screw and put a lockwasher and nut on the other side.
44man said
That won't help, just get the stronger screw and leave the nut and washer off.

Half the threads are aluminum and pulled out. The screws were too short.

[ole 5 hole group]

Using blue loc-Tite is OK but it may present a problem every now & then and you'll have to resort to using heat. Most don't have a problem with blue but I did. I now use Loc-Tite 222MS, which is low strength and it will never give scope base or scope ring screws a problem.

[Changeling]

Had a good group going with my Redhawk, 45 Colt at 50 yds Creedmore. Shots began to open up. Suspecting the sight since it broke the screw last time, I took off the Ultradot Pan-V sight and this is what I found. On the left is the screw from the last time. On the right is Ultradot's replacement screw. At bottom of the pic is the mount and slot. At least with a tube sight it would only be a ring change.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2610

Amazing Frank, but you can't argue with a picture. What does that little scope weigh to cause that much inertia/centrifugal force? I can also see the thread indentations on the cross bolt slot of the mount .
I would also really appreciate what brand mount that is and what load you were shooting:veryconfu

If you can't find new cross bolts, let me know, I can get them for you.

[Frank]

Changeling says:
Amazing Frank, but you can't argue with a picture.
Thanks. Oh, maybe I photo shopped it. Actually, the rear bolt, the one at the rear of the sight, is much bigger. I'm thinking of getting a long steel bolt the same size as the rear, drill and tap it and put a nut on the end. Why rely on aluminum threads?

Hey, guys, it's not my fault. The bolts they provided are both too short. There wouldn't have been a problem if they supplied bolts that were long enough. But someone might ask: Well, why didn't you check the thread engagement before mounting? My answer is The thread and pitch of these bolts are nowhere to be found in any hardware store, except Brownells. You order a red dot and mount, drill and tap the gun, then find out you need to get a new mount bolt because you were dumb enough to order the $220 sight another brand sells the same thing for $58. Why don't they give you a new bolt that's too long and tell you to trim it to size? Because that would be too intelligent. [smilie=1:

[44man]

Frank, do you know the actual thread size?
Seeing the threads are now bad in the mount, I think I would send it back and explain that the screws were too short for a full grip.
By the way, NEVER Loc-Tite ring screws on a scope. Only the base screws.
I can't count the hundreds of ring screws I have had to drill the heads off of and use heat and vise grips to remove the rest. Those screws never loosen, are small and hardened so they will snap. The Allen head screws will round out.

[ole 5 hole group]

By the way, NEVER Loc-Tite ring screws on a scope. Only the base screws. I can't count the hundreds of ring screws I have had to drill the heads off of and use heat and vise grips to remove the rest. Those screws never loosen, are small and hardened so they will snap. The Allen head screws will round out.

You are absolutely right relative to scope ring screws. I have never experienced ring screws shooting loose when tighten properly, however, as you just indicated, there are some individuals out there that want to make sure nothing moves with their setup and will use Loc-Tite to make damn sure it doesn't. It is for those individuals that I recommend the 222MS, as the ring screws will never come loose and yet they can and will be easily removed. Blue Loc-Tite is where some people get into trouble if they don’t use heat when feeling way too much resistance in attempting to remove the screw – and then they come to you for assistance.

[Dale53]

44man;
I can sure second that. About forty years ago, I was a bit sloppy when I applied loc-tite to a scope ring screw. I got loc-tite between the allen head cap and the ring. There was NO way to break that one loose. I had to drill it out.

Now, I am VERY careful when using loc-tite to only use a small drop on the threads ONLY, and to use the corner of a tissue to wick off any excess. You just need the smallest amount to work.

Actually, Elmer Keith's old trick to use shellac on the threads of Colt Single Action Army screws seems to work as well as anything. The advantage of shellac is that it is extremely easy to break it loose and it NEVER does the occasional trick of loc-tite of being impossible to break loose with small screws.

Whichever you use, it is also helpful to use a Q-tip with denatured alcohol to remove any residual oil from the threads and to sort of Pre-Prep the job.

FWIW
Dale53

[Frank]

I didn't use Loctite. Sights have to come off. The good hardware store is open today and they willl probably have the longer bolt.

[Frank]

New larger, tougher bolt (right)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2839 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2840

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2842 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2843

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2841

With the nut you have unlimited torque. I couldn't loosen it from the allen head until I loosened the nut.

Total cost for bolt, washer, locknut, drill and tap: $7.38 [smilie=1:

[Changeling]

Dam I hope that works, the new screw looks like what should have been used in the base slot in the first place from the factory. Are the new bolts steel?
Now I see what you mean by the orig bolt not being long enough in the first place!
Don't through the old bolts away in case you have any more problems you will need to ship it all back as Jim suggested.

I just flat out hate aluminum in ANY type of stress area. I wanted to find a steel type Weaver base for my Ruger BH 45LC. I even posted on the forum for one, but no one knew of one, so it looks like it will be an aluminum base, like it or not.

[Frank]

Changeling said
Dam I hope that works, the new screw looks like what should have been used in the base slot in the first place from the factory. Are the new bolts steel?
Now I see what you mean by the orig bolt not being long enough in the first place!
Don't through the old bolts away in case you have any more problems you will need to ship it all back as Jim suggested.

I just flat out hate aluminum in ANY type of stress area. I wanted to find a steel type Weaver base for my Ruger BH 45LC. I even posted on the forum for one, but no one knew of one, so it looks like it will be an aluminum base, like it or not.
Exactly. Aluminum strips so easy! Now the only problem area is the rear bolt. It too screws into aluminum. But my front bolt is so solid I could probably leave it off. Maybe I can add a Heli-coil insert. Would that increase strength? I can do front and rear with Heli-coils, make it really tough. 44man is right. 3 Bolts would be ideal, but the underside precludes that option.

[fecmech]

. Maybe I can add a Heli-coil insert. Would that increase strength? I can do front and rear with Heli-coils, make it really tough. 44man is right. 3 Bolts would be ideal, but the underside precludes that option.

Helicoils are stronger than the original threads in steel so would be even more so in aluminum. I have one of those old clamp-on mounts for Rugers and I stripped out the aluminum threads. I helicoiled them and now I think I could probably shear the screw if I really wanted to torque the heck out of it! Nothing really wrong with the nut you are using other than the "cool" factor.

[Frank]

fecmech, I checked Helicoil. They only have a metric 4 course. I'd like to do the rear mount hole on this clamp type mount. That's great you did that to your mount.


Nothing really wrong with the nut you are using other than the "cool" factor.
Is there a cool factor to the nut? :bigsmyl2: I'll tell you what. I took the sight off to put the mount on the gun. I had tightened the nut with a small adjustable wrench just on the end of the wrench, you know, where the only torque you give it is pressure on the wrench jaws to tighten the small nut. The procedure used was to install the allen screw snug, then use the nut to final torque. I tried to loosen the allen socket first. It was solid, wouldn't budge. The nut has to be loosened first. I'll bet this set-up gives me 20X the clamping power over the factory setup.

[Frank]

Now, last time when I was shooting the BFR 45-70 with the Matchdot, I right away noticed a little lense distortion, parallax type effect with movement side to side, up and down, straight lines get curvy. Now my other Ultadot doesn't do that. So what do I have here? :confused:

Further inspection reveals a loose lense behind the front lense. Oh well. It worked for a while, but it's good to have a backup. Hmmm, like my Pan-V. No loose lenses to come out of that sight. If you cure the mount problem, maybe that type of sight is the toughest sight.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2627

[Frank]

Update: Vendor Report. Ultradot. They sent me a new one. But the lense looks the same. Maybe that has something to do with how it's built. The distortion is obviously now gone. I'll have to save it for hunting season. In the meantime I'm using the Leupold 4X and it's still being tough.

[BlackDiamond]

I have an Ultradot Matchdot on my S&W 629 and I'm very satisfied with it. Now I'd want to purchase an Ultradot L/T for my Freedom Arms .454 Casull. Does anyone have experience with the L/T model ?

Also I saw there's also a PAN A-V model but it looks bigger and heavier than the L/T. Which one would you reccomend ?

[44man]

I can't say because I use the regular 30mm straight Ultra Dot's. I need a dot that can take heavy recoil so I will not experiment.
I can not count the stuff I have destroyed with recoil.
Someone gave me a laser one time, holy smokes did it get destroyed in a hurry! Recoil smashed the batteries into the laser board so hard you could not tell what was there. There was a big plug of foam in there too. It was fun until it went kaput! [smilie=l:

[Frank]

Black Diamond asked
Also I saw there's also a PAN A-V model but it looks bigger and heavier than the L/T. Which one would you reccomend ?
I sent the Pan-V in for service. When I get it back I'll put it on my 45-70 with full power loads that will have the exact recoil of your FA .454. Can't have enough optics. Big bore's eat'em. :Fire:

[home in oz]

I can feel another purchase coming on-I feel the NEED!

[Frank]

Got the Pan-V back. It now has a nice longer bolt and larger head than their old replacement screw. It's made of the same material though. Can't wait to try it out again. The 4 reticle patterns are all crystal clear. This sight has a pattern with a tiny dot with a circle that will be really good for bullseye.
Ultradot - Great product and service.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2844 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2845