So will this nose first sizing setup work?

[okksu]

Trying to figure out a nose first sizing set up for the 6.5 Cruise Missle, from Mid South mould, drops at .270 for me. (Wish a Lyman lube sizer was in the budget, but its not....and I don't want to wait who knows how long on a special order from Lee and then maybe its right, maybe not. I've got two of Lee dies already and neither sizes to its advertised, but fortunately they still each push a useful size......But this one must size to .266) My press is a Lee Breech Lock Challenger.
My idea is a variation of Crazy Mark and Beagles "Nose First Sizing" set up per their members article on Castpics.

THE PLAN: Use a Lyman .266 sizing die, and two Lee Breech Lock Bushings, a 2"X 11/16 ID, 7/8 OD sleeve bearing; press the bearing into the BL bushings which will be oriented top ring to top ring, leaving enough inside thread on one of the BL bushings so that the end of an 1 1/2" piece of 7/8X14 TPI bolt could be screwed in. That 7/8 bolt would be center drilled with a 3/8" bit and the head removed. It would stick up from the top breech bushing to hold the Lee sizing kit "catcher" when its all set up in the press. I'll have to hone out the 11/16 ID sleeve bearing .0125+ to accept the Lyman die which according to the article is .700OD. Maybe if some combination of brass/copper/alum sheet is available that would get me closer to the .700 ID needed, and roll it instead of honing the sleeve bearing? Anyway, drill and tap for a set screw to hold the die, maybe at one of the lube holes? Last, I'll mfg a pushrod from a 5/16 bolt ala the article and of course tap a shell holder for the pushrod threads.

So, what do ya'll think? Workable? Am I missing something? anything?

[okksu]

The brown truck is supposed to be here today with the sizing die. In the meantime, this exercise in shade tree engineering has taught me:

1. Tapping a Lee shellholder with your average garage set of HSS taps isn't going to happen. The shellholder just kept saying "Bring it, big guy". Took it to a friend who has a fiberglass fabrication business and has a few big boy toys to mill the occasional metal part that's needed. He wasn't able to tap it either. Solution: cut the head and threads off my 5/16 bolt, chucked in his mini lathe and turned the business end down to .250 for the .266 die, and turned the other to press fit the shell holder hole. Heated the holder and used the vice to press the rod in. Apparent success.

Of course, now I have to replace that shellholder for the die set I robbed it from, but that's not a biggie. Would have been nice to tap it and keep it useable for its original purpose, but ...

2. Finding a 7/8"-14 TPI bolt isn't easy, even off the net; the 14 TPI thread is an illusive thing... Local hardware store clerks just smirk and say "uhhhh, nope.". Still looking for that. Investigating to see if any plumber friends have a 7/8"-14 threading die. That may be another answer. Not a critical piece, but not giving up on it.

3. 7/8" OD -11/16" ID sleeve bearings are a little easier to find then the 7/8" bolt, but at least locally, it's an order item. SWMBO works for a industrial parts distributor, so a couple of those are ordered and coming at the wholesale price. (Just another reminder of why I love that woman.)

[454PB]

I have 12 feet of 7/8X14 TPI threaded rod in my shop. If you need a piece, PM me and I'll send you some. This is plain old carbon steel rod I bought for making various parts and pieces for sizing, etc.

[okksu]

"plain old carbon steel rod....."

A piece of that sounds exactly like what I need. PM sent.

[Mk42gunner]

okksu,

7/8X14 is the fine thread for 7/8" bolts. They can usually be found if your store carries Grade 8 bolts.

I have read somewhere that the wheel studs used on big trucks are the same thread, but I haven't checked. You could ask at a tire shop or garage that works on semis.

Good luck with your project,

Robert

[okksu]

Thanks for the suggestion Mk42. I Googled "Truck Wheel Studs" and didn't find anything over 3/4" at the threads, a few went slightly larger on the shanks but nothing I found went a full 7/8". May be out there, and I haven't found them. Given my limited metal working tools and experience, Grade 8 might really challenge me and my tools.

Looks as if 454PB is going to come through with a small piece for me but I'll still Google some more to see, just to have it for future reference.... Some body out there sells it. I just haven't put in the right search yet.

[AZ-Stew]

If you find a grade 8, be thankful. You can anneal it to work on it, then re-heat treat it to suitable hardness.

Regards,

Stew

[454PB]

I sent you a return PM, I'll mail the piece of rod to you.

I got mine from Grainger when it went on sale. I didn't really need 12 feet, but the shipping was more than the rod.

[454PB]

I mailed the threaded rod this morning.

[Bret4207]

Would it not be far easier to get a Lee die of .258 dia and lap it out to .266? I took a .329 out to .332+ in less than 10 minutes using abrasive paper on a cleaning rod and rolling it on my thigh. The sizing area of the Lee dies is a narrow band, doesn't take long. Sounds like it would be far simpler.

[okksu]

Much appreciated, 454PB. Yours should arrive about the same time my sleeve bearings get in.
Once I got the google thing figured out ("threaded rod", not "bolts", dummy!) there are sources out there. In addition to Granger: http://www.pointe-products.com/itemclass/Threaded-Rod-(SAE)-Fine-Thread has it. Pointe Products rod is zinc coated, don't know if that makes a difference or not for this type of deal.

Bret4207: yes that certainly would have been, but when I checked the Lee website and looked at sizing dies they were only showing .243 as the closest in size. Still might have been easier, but .023 sounded like alot of lapping. Besides, I'm a tinkerer at heart...

[prickett]

Bret4207: yes that certainly would have been, but when I checked the Lee website and looked at sizing dies they were only showing .243 as the closest in size. Still might have been easier, but .023 sounded like alot of lapping. Besides, I'm a tinkerer at heart...

You could always see if Lee would resize for you. I bought 3 Lee sizing dies and all three were off by .001. I returned them to Lee and they resized all three free of charge. Even if not free, I'm sure I'd be pretty inexpensive.

[okksu]

My Lee .311 die sizes to .310; my Lee .314 sizes to .312, but I do use both of those sizes. One of my moulds drops at .314. So right now its all working out, although very much accidentally.
Clearly the $25-30 special order from Lee would be cheaper than what Im doing, but I'm hoping to get on range much faster going this way, besides, if the boolit fairy leaves a 450 or 4500 Lube sizer under my pillow, I'll already have my first die.......

454PB's donation piece of 7/8-14 arrived in today's mail. (Way to go USPS!!) Got it cut to length, center drilled and upper part reduced to fit into the catcher cup. But then 104 in the shop drove me to the house under the air conditioning. Just waiting on the sleeve bearings to show up, should be Monday.

[DLCTEX]

Why not just get Buckshot to make you a Lee type size die? I bet it would be cheaper than Lee's custom price.

[okksu]

Buckshot's service is something I should have checked into, had I thought about it. I guess my impression was that Buckshot made custom size Lyman type dies, just never thought to check with him to see if he could/would/cost of/turn around time to expand a Lee for me. Guilty of being fixated on quickest way, & how to adapt the Castpic article to my particular press once I read it..

[okksu]

Sleeve bearing arrived and the silliness continues. Bearing just goes into the breech lock lugs without pressing, which is good news/bad news. Honed the 11/16th ID out to .701 by chucking a piece of 1/2" steel rod in the DP and taping an oblong piece of 80 grit from a used belt sander belt. Took a learning curve to get just the right amount of pressure to let the bearing rotate steady/slowly against the rod for an even hone, but the 80 grit did well with that much material to get out: took about an hour to do that. [Tried the roll it on your leg honing method with a 1/4" rod and 220 sand paper; didn't work for me, sleeve bearing too smooth to roll, just skidded along without rolling.

Drilled and tapped for a 4-40 set screw through the lower BLL in one of the gaps between its locking threads (there' s probably a name for those gaps--Anyone?) and on through bearing to match with the die's u-groove (not the o-ring groove) when the die is inserted in the bearing. Tapping the lug was easy, nothing like the shellholder tapping attempts. One seems to hold the die securely. I chose a 3/16" 4-40 set screw which gets the top of the set screw out of the way of the press's threads when you mount the lug. I was afraid a larger diameter set screw might end up sticking out too far along the lug radius and interfer with the lock down. (Besides, a #43 bit and a 4-40 tap was all I had for making smallish set screw holes.)

I was counting on the press fit of the bearing into both lugs to hold the breech lugs together. That probably wasn't a good idea, anyway. Now I'm thinking JB Weld the bearing into both lugs or doing tack welds on the lug rims to hold them together. The top lug and its piece of 7/8" threaded rod are what will be taking the full upward force of sizing. Not sure JB would hold up to the repeated pressure of sizing .270 Cruise Missle boolits down to .266. Any opinions on JB Weld approach? Actual welding sounds like the fail proof option, but I JB Weld a heck of a lot better than I arc weld........

[mdi]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#threaded-rods-and-studs/=834we7
http://www.mcmaster.com/#sleeve-bearings/=834xuw

I get a lot of supplies from McMaster-Carr. Good pricing and fast shipping.

[okksu]

Finished!! I'll post pics later.

Overall, a success... I used the JB Weld to hold the bearing in place and to join both breech lugs together. Dried for less than JB's recommended 24 hours, but held up thru sizing 25 boolits down .004 with no signs of overstress or of the two lugs separating.

I think I will eventually redo the ram. I can do better--maybe try turning a one piece like comes in the Lee kits instead of using a shell holder. The ram for the CM boolit must be long and skinny and mine needs to have alignment guidance with the boolit, right up to where it enters the die-- too much play. Also, would have been better to have left the ram diam. bigger than .250. Its leaving ever so slight a dimple in the gas checks. Part of that is that the top end is not quite square to the shaft, depite several attempts with a file/stone to true it up. Eyeballing it hasn't worked so far. Anyone with a tip on how to square up the ram tip?

Another slight drawback is that nothing sticks down below the press frame to make for an easy eyeball starting the boolit. You have to start the boolit by feel, then raise and guide the ram from there.. A little more practice to get the muscle memory built up may make that less fumbly-bumbly.

The real advantage of this project for Lee Challenger Breech Lock Press users is that for those who need to size nose first, sizing dies are quickly/easily interchangable. So, when you've got to have a boolit size that Lee doesn't come close to, you can go to the broader Lyman selection, or use Buckshot's service to get exactly the size you need, and not have to wait for Lee's special order to arrive with all that entails. You may have to turn another ram or two for different sizes, but 5/16" bolts are cheap.

[okksu]

Took a little longer to gets these up but here's a couple of pic's to show the pieces and how they go together:

[IMG]http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh292/okksu/Lymansizer.jpg

[IMG]http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh292/okksu/Leesizerparts.jpg

I redid the ram rod, still did not thread the shellholder hole, but the 5/16th threads make a very snug press fit in it; had to touch up the shellolder neck and base with a small file to get it to fit into the press ram after the press fit. Apparently the press fit swelled the shellholder slightly.

[Mk42gunner]

To square up your bottom punch's end, chuck it in a drill and either use a file or touch it to a running grinder. Should work well enough.


Robert