Turn softer lead into hard alloy

[fourdollarbill]

I have about 50 pounds of pistol range pick up. I shoot my own cast ww into a bullet catch so I also have about 18 lbs of straight ww. I don't just want to mix it all together as I like to keep my ww bullets seperate.
How do you go about finding a mix needed to turn the range pick up into a good mag velocity alloy close to a #2 ? No BHN tester available.

[sagacious]

This may sound snarky, but the only way to test if it's "good" alloy for your mag recipes is to pour some bullets and test them.

The very definition of "good" means that the item has passed some sort of test, and your loaded ammo will provide the best test. There's little reason to think that it won't work perfectly as it is now-- to try to "fix" range scrap before testing is putting the cart before the horse. Try and see, and if it doesn't work, then we can address the probem. Until then, there is no problem to fix. Good luck.

[fourdollarbill]

I guess good is not the word for this . How about gooder?
I typically use straight ww water quenched and it really works well for me. Since I know little about mixing my goal was to get something close to this and I would assume range pick is way off. Maybe not...

[Molly]

Range salvage is a real witches brew. The majority of it will be pure or nearly pure lead from .22's and cores from jacketed bullets that have shed their jackets on impact. Accordingly, most range salvage will be quite soft. The best thing to do with it is to consider it pure lead, and alloy it with a bit of linotype. The miniscule amount of non-lead ingredients will not change anything much.

Mix 50/50 with linotype and you will have 6% antimonial lead, with a trace of tin for better castability. This is just about the composition of OLD wheelweights, and makes a great alloy for hard cast pistol bullets. It SHOULD quench harden OK. If it doesn't, add some chilled shot to replace an equal weight of salvage until it does what you need.

Mix 75/25 salvage and linotype, and you will have 3% antimonial lead, which is about the composition of most modern wheelweights. Again, using a bit of chilled shot as part of the salvage weight will improve quench hardening.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

first I must say I have very little knowledge and experience preparing an lead alloy.
and I have no BHN tester either, but I have read alot here.

with that said,
My first thought is to smelt/blend a small portion in a 50-50 mix,
maybe a 3/4 of the capacity of your casting pot
(btw, I'd blend them in a smelting setup not the casting pot
and flux well). them cast some boolits, let them age harden
for at least 2 weeks-even if water quenched,
then try to scratch and/or dent them and
then scratch and/or dent some of your
known WW alloy bullets...then compare.
Jon

[madsenshooter]

Adding a bit of babbitt to your range scrap would make something good of it. Being specific, some lead-based Stonewall babbitt would be nice. It has all the ingredients of WW plus more Sn and Cu.

[Cowboy T]

Get a lead hardness tester. No, not being smart-aleck, I'm very serious, and good home units need not break the bank. Lee Precision sells one through Midway USA for $51. Works in any single-stage or turret press.

[Molly]

Get a lead hardness tester. No, not being smart-aleck, I'm very serious, and good home units need not break the bank. Lee Precision sells one through Midway USA for $51. Works in any single-stage or turret press.

Get a set of art pencils to test lead hardness. Cheap and works well. It's been described in detail elsewhere on the forum. Too much to repeat, but a quick search will get you all the details.

[cbrick]

How do you go about finding a mix needed to turn the range pick up into a good mag velocity alloy close to a #2 ? No BHN tester available.

Alloying with Roto Metals Super Hard (http://www.lasc.us/SuperHard.htm)

The above link will give you several recipes to harden soft alloys using antimony. Most of them were designed to allow me to test the useful range of 6 BHN SWW with mid-range rifle and higher end pistol loads using antimony plus as cast diameters, hardening time curves etc.

Rick

[cajun shooter]

If you have range lead most of it will be around a BHN of 9. If you are looking for #2 then you need some Linotype to add because the WW's are probably around 10.5 at least that is what we have here.If you are young then the Lee can be used but I find for most folks past 55 that the Lee becomes a problem. A search will give you all the reasons and there are many. If you plan on staying in casting then I would invest in tester. I have been casting since about 1970 and I use mine on a regular bases. You cannot guess at your alloy; I have to laugh when pewople tell me they have some BHN 12 lead and I ask what tester they used and the answer is oh I just guessed. You can't trust the people who sell the lead to know unless you know that they test the lead themselves. Muddy Creek Sam is one who does. The Cabin Tree made by our member Gussy is the best and is what I use. They are built like a tank and buy the better of the two models as it can be used to check run out on your ammo and bullets. You can also hand it down as it is made that well. A testor is almost on the same level as a mold when it comes to equipment to own when casting.

[squid1230]

I fortunate, must be most of my range scrap tests at 12bhn. I just melt it down and use it again. 9mm and .40

[fredj338]

I fortunate, must be most of my range scrap tests at 12bhn. I just melt it down and use it again. 9mm and .40
Yeah, range scrap is really hit or miss. Mine comes in about BHN9-10, no amount of ww added will get you to #2 alloy. You will need lino, mono or hardball to get close. I shoot the range scrap as is for 38sp, 45acp & others to 1100fps.

[1hole]

The principle hardening metal of a good bullet alloy is antimony, that's the hard part of wheel weights. Problem is it has a deceptive surface hardness. As the molten melt cools the antimony crystalizes out first and is locked in the slower solidifying lead as a matrix, not an alloy, and the exposed lead tends to smear onto a bore more than it would seem. Adding tin helps keep the antimony in solution as the bullet alloy solidifies and helps the mixture flow so it fills molds better as well.

Scrap lead mixtures are so varied in composition no one can tell you how much of what to add. The old NRA Cast Bullets Handbook has a LOT of excellant data on both casting and the characteristics of the alloys we use. The book shows up on eBay and Amazon.com's used book listings.

It's best, IMHO, to melt down as much of whatever metals I have and experiment with the hardness afterwards. If it's too soft, I remelt and add more wheel weights and tin. It's rare I think my alloy is too hard but that has happened. Being harder than necessary hurts nothing but it wastes antimony and tin so sometimes I've remelted and added a bit of lead to extend the harder metals. For the last 45 years my 'Brinnel' tester has been my right thumb nail and it's been plenty good enough for me. My "hard cast" SWCs handle speeds up to 1,500 fps in both my .357 and .44 mags, I usually soften it a bit for 1,000 fps and lesser speeds in my .38S and .45ACP stuff.

[cbrick]

You will need lino, mono or hardball to get close.

That could be a problem for a lot of people including me. I haven't come across any lino in several years and I've never gotten any mono or stereotype. The only way I know to get hardball is to buy hardball, pricey indeed. Just checked Midway and it's $3.78 a pound plus shipping. Roto Metals has it on sale for $2.02 per pound plus shipping unless your order is over $100.00, then free shipping.

It seems that some people are ignoring the possibilities of Roto Metals Super Hard alloy. Roto Metals Super Hard Alloy (http://www.rotometals.com/product-p/30_antimony_70_lead.htm) Perhaps it's just that it's fairly new and the idea of getting antimony this way hasn't sunk in yet?

At 70% lead and 30% antimony it is a known item that makes it easy to blend any given antimony percentage desired.

Rick