More errors with single stage press???

[buckbeans]

Just heard a fellow at the local sportsman's warehouse claiming that there is more room for errors with a single stage press than progressive.
This is clearly a first for me.
Does anybody have any data supporting this???

[Hickory]

Yes, there is the potential for human errors with a single stage press.
But there is a greater likelihood for both mechanical and human error with a progressive press.
With a single stage press you have basically only one moving part; the ram.
With a progressive press you have cams, linkage, levers and Lord knows what else that can break, go out of adjustment or run out of components. You need not be a very smart idiot to screw up with a progressive loading press.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Hickory is really correct on his post.

I don't ever remember charging and loading a cartridge, without a primer, until I started using a progressive.

There IS!!!! a learning curve with the progressive and anyone saying there is more chance for foul ups with a single stage is really, REALLY!!!!!! short on breathable air.:rolleyes::rolleyes::veryconfu:confused::roll:

Is there a place for a progresive? Yep, but there is also a need to keep your mind on your business.

on a single stage, the very term should give any thinking person the answer.

Single, meaning one (1), therefor there is only one - 2 if you count sizing and decaping - operation going on during the stroke of the ram, as apposed to the 5 or more with every stroke of the ram on the progressive.

Do I plan on trashing my progressive? Not likely, but it is what it is, a tool with many more moving parts and functions with each movement of the handle.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[mike in co]

i agree with tthe potemtial in a single stage press, for more errors.
its simple you load fifty rounds on a single.....you handle the case
look as the list
touch ..into press, size, deprime reprime, touch....50 times
touch bell the case touch....fifty times
touch drop powder touch( or one big touch if using a loading block.....fifty up and downs on the powder measure.
touch seat bullet/boolit touch
touch crimp touch..........
go count the "touches" every one is a POTENTIAL for error....and a potential to DISCOVER the error.
10 touches x 50 cases= 500 potentials for error

progressive
touch case in


never touch again.....
four pulls of the handle, touch the bullet for seating( same as single).......
much fewer chances for errors.....if the operator pays attention to the basics.

50 touches.......1/10th the error potential.....


none of which matters if the operator is as dumb as a rock, has a beer in one hand and the tv on.......

( i dont buy the linkage/levers bs...cause if it breaks you know it...you stop...you dont continue loading...but it is the same on your single stage press..if the linkage breaks, you know, you stop..ask any lee press owner)

mike in co

[Hickory]

OK, I'll fess-up. I don't own and have never used a progressive press.
Two of my friends have had progressive presses and have had nothing but trouble with them.

So, I've shied away from them over the years and and use only a single stage press. If you really knew me and how I live you would find it hard to believe that I even own a computer or that I am hooked-up to the internet, so, I guess I'm not a smart enough idiot to own or use a progressive reloading press.

[mooman76]

Overall I say no but I think I know what the guy meant or was coming from. I have never done a progressive but I have a turret press. Some guys that use progressives only load for a couple or even single caliber so once it's set up, they don't have to further adjust it if it is set they way they want. At least that would be my guess.

[buckbeans]

I can see mikeinco's point of view.
The more your handle the more chances for error.
The guy does have a point of view shared by otherrs.

[Cowboy T]

I have and use single-stage, turret, and progressive presses. The vast majority of my time is spent on my progressive presses. Yep, there's a learning curve. That's why I always recommend to new handloaders that they start out with the cheapie $30 Lee Reloader Single-Stage Press. Then, after you learn what you're doing (that means 1,000 rounds single-stage, far as I'm concerned), and only then, consider going turret or progressive.

Yes, I'm a big, big believer in getting the fundamentals down so pat that they become automatic. For example, I'm teaching my g/f to drive a stick. It's not on a Formula 1 race car or even my turbodiesel 3/4 ton truck. It's on a Honda Civic. She can deal with the truck later. Get the fundamentals of driving a stick-shift down first. The same concept applies to reloading ammunition.

If you pay attention to your reloading (and you ARE doing that anyway, RIGHT?), a progressive or turret is just as safe as a single-stage.

[mike in co]

I have and use single-stage, turret, and progressive presses. The vast majority of my time is spent on my progressive presses. Yep, there's a learning curve. That's why I always recommend to new handloaders that they start out with the cheapie $30 Lee Reloader Single-Stage Press. Then, after you learn what you're doing (that means 1,000 rounds single-stage, far as I'm concerned), and only then, consider going turret or progressive.

Yes, I'm a big, big believer in getting the fundamentals down so pat that they become automatic. For example, I'm teaching my g/f to drive a stick. It's not on a Formula 1 race car or even my turbodiesel 3/4 ton truck. It's on a Honda Civic. She can deal with the truck later. Get the fundamentals of driving a stick-shift down first. The same concept applies to reloading ammunition.

If you pay attention to your reloading (and you ARE doing that anyway, RIGHT?), a progressive or turret is just as safe as a single-stage.

i do not disagree with learnign fundimentals...but

when most of the older folks were growing up and learning...99% of the time the only thing out there was a single stage press.....
it aint yesterday, so quit looking back
buy a dillon 550 b to start with....wait back up.
buy to reloading book and read them, then read them again.
if still interested, buy a dillon 550b.
you can use each of the four stations as four single stage presses.
and learn the basics....
once you see whats going on....use all four stations at once...ie progressive.
i never used a single stage press till just a couple years back when i went to 6ppc.
all my presses uptil then were progressives......as a child..i learned from a guy with a progressive..this was in the 1950/60's.

this is not rocket science...most guys are just copying a formula in a book......

i'll stand by my statement....do not buy a single satge press if you are going to do volume shooting, buy a progressive to start with.
if you are a hunter/low volume shooter, yes a single will work,

mike in co

[Duckiller]

Different point of view. Every time I handle a case with my Rockchucker I get to examine what I just did and make sure I did it right. After near 40 years with the Rockchucker I have gotten fairly fast reloading pistol cartridges. Will admit that I am faster loading pistol rounds with the Dillion 550B. It is not as fast as Dillion claims and I have a problem feeding small primers. Problem is not insurmountable and can be corrected with close attention to details. I may disagree with mike in co but based on his posts I am sure that he and I agree that a reloader MUST pay attention to what you are doing at all times and make sure that you press is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. Safe reloading requires attention to details.

[462]

..."a reloader MUST pay attention to what you are doing at all times and make sure that you press is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. Safe reloading requires attention to details."

Exactly. The different types of presses all have their inherent advantages and disadvantages. As long was we are aware of what they are and remain alert to what is happening, there won't be any accidents. Unfortunately, reloading -- casting, too -- is repetitious and we can easily be distracted from the task at hand.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I have both styles of presses. My single stage is a RCBS Rock Chucker of many years age. My progressive is a Hornady Pro - 7 bought in their 1st year of existence and later upgraded to a pro-jector series. I do not use the prime station on the Hornady as I got tired of the occasional upside down primer or the sideways crushed primer. Not to mention the manner of the primer tube on the press. I also tried the loaded round ejector for about 2 load sessions, I gleefuly ripped it off the shell plate ram and haven`t put it back on these many years later. I run my cases thru the first 2 stations, then prime off the press then finish back on the press charging and final bullet seating stations. I like the Hornady press which is why I haven`t chucked it and gotten something else. I won`t buy into the LNL system hoorah and I have mixed feelings about Dillon from experience. My RC press gets enough work doing my rifle calibers and mucho grande sized pistol calibers.Robert

[mike in co]

I have mixed feelings about Dillon from experience. Robert

there are tons of people out there that don't have mixed feelings about dillons.

things like a case ejector thet works.

a primer system that works....

a great powder system

and take apart dies that are awsome for cast boolit shooters.....


so what are your mixed feelings...what experience ??

inquiring minds want to know....


mike in co

[jtownguy]

Can't add a lot to this conversation because 20 years ago at the age of 50 I bought a Dillon Square Deal B.

Had to go through a learning curve with it but the auto Indexing made it easier for me.

Now, 20 years later I have a Dillon 650 and would have nothing else. Once again the auto indexing is a must for me. I tried the Dillon 550B but sent it back because of the lack of auto indexing.

It probably is just me and my age, (70 now) but the auto indexing keeps me centered and less likely to get lost in the procedure, which is what happened to me with the 550B. The less I have to remember and think about, once I get the press set up it is smooth and a pleasure for me. I do however, check my powder drop every 100 rounds or less just to be sure, even thought I am eyeballing it each pull.

You do have to pay 100% attention I have found to everything that is happening. I can't get distracted, however, with the 650 I can get distracted and all I have to do is stop, look, and think, then move on.

It is also very fast if you want. But that is not important to me now because I no longer shoot competition and don't have to load and shoot 1200 rounds a week

Just my experience.

[giddyupgo55]

There is always a learning curve when loading.With a single stage press if you pay attention mistakes are few,if any, but with a progressive press if you don't pay close attention big
mistakes can be made. I just finished takeing apart over a 1000 rounds of 40 S&W rounds from a person I know who has been reloading more years then my 32 years and he was using a 550. Some didn't have powder some were lite on powder.Still use single stage fore my rifles and the progressive for my hand guns and 223.

[1hole]

Progressives are pretty much automated to crank out tons of the same stuff in an almost mindless way. Those who are almost mindless would do well to stick with what works with that mindset. ??

[jtownguy]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=12392&page=26

I was just cruising through the Loading bench pics and was noticing all the "mindless" loaders with their Dillon presses.

Some of these guys must be incredibly mindless because they have three Dillon's on their bench..:grin:

[dragonrider]

I have three progessives, two Lee pro 1000's and a Dillon 650. Have had the Lee's for 20+ years and the Dillon for 12. I also have singles and turrets. By far most of my errors have been made on the progressives. I now do 90% of my reloading on a Lyman T-mag and a Lyman AA. Yersterday I made a shell holder adapter for the AA and will be retiring the T-mag soon.

[jsizemore]

mike in co, could you answer me a question?

Since BR shooting requires very accurate, consistent ammo, do you load said ammo on your progressive press to eliminate the chance of multiple handling errors?

inquiring minds want to know....

[technetium-99m]

The press that requires the most attention in my opinion is the manual indexing progressive. All it takes is one brain fart and you have pulled the handle twice without advancing the shell plate and have a double charge.

An automatically indexing progressive press takes time to set up, each die has to be placed and adjusted. But once you get it set they are pretty idiot proof. I have not had any problems in my 25,000 rounds loaded.

You shouldn't avoid progressives if you shoot a lot, thousands of people assemble tons of high quality ammo using progressive presses. If you need to load any more than 500 rounds a month they are the only way to fly in my opinion.

Loading enough pistol ammo for myself on a single stage press is taking away time I could be shooting or dryfiring.

[cricco]

I use a Dillon 550b. It's what I learned on. I love it. That being said, I also own an RCBS Rockchucker. It has it's purpose. I use it for large rifle loads. My handgun and 5.56 stuff gets loaded on the Dillon, because I can load lots of ammo CONSISTANTLY, SAFELY, and ACCURATELY with my Dillon.

[mike in co]

There is always a learning curve when loading.With a single stage press if you pay attention mistakes are few,if any, but with a progressive press if you don't pay close attention big
mistakes can be made. I just finished takeing apart over a 1000 rounds of 40 S&W rounds from a person I know who has been reloading more years then my 32 years and he was using a 550. Some didn't have powder some were lite on powder.Still use single stage fore my rifles and the progressive for my hand guns and 223.

i disagree
it was not A BIG mistake..it was similar mistakes over and over.
in your own example...a guy obviously was not paying attention to what he was doing.
dont blame the type of press on a stupid operator.
this was not the fault of the press..it was the operator

give him a single stage press and he will still screw up.

[jtownguy]

The press that requires the most attention in my opinion is the manual indexing progressive. All it takes is one brain fart and you have pulled the handle twice without advancing the shell plate and have a double charge.

An automatically indexing progressive press takes time to set up, each die has to be placed and adjusted. But once you get it set they are pretty idiot proof. I have not had any problems in my 25,000 rounds loaded.

You shouldn't avoid progressives if you shoot a lot, thousands of people assemble tons of high quality ammo using progressive presses. If you need to load any more than 500 rounds a month they are the only way to fly in my opinion.

Loading enough pistol ammo for myself on a single stage press is taking away time I could be shooting or dryfiring.

The safety factor was the point I was making when I said I found the Auto Indexing of the Dillon 650 was a good way to go. Not just progressive.

Of course you don't have to be a mental giant once you have the press set up. All you have to do is pull the handle.

Now when I want to feel like a mental giant, I just get on my Rock Chucker and load some Winchester .32 Specials and I feel my IQ going off the board.:-?

[AZ-Stew]

For those loading for only one firearm, a progressive is hard to beat for convenience. Once you get it set up and get the dies adjusted properly, all you have to do is feed it components and pull the handle. It's not quite that straightforward with multiple cartridges. I load for 12 different cartridges on my Dillon 550. Some of the cartridges use the same shell plate, i.e. .38 Spl/.357 Mag, but those cartridges are seldom loaded in succession, so there's a lot of part changing required between loading sessions. I only have one powder measure, due to cost and storage space availability, so the measure gets moved from tool head to tool head as the caliber changes. After setting the powder measure for a given load, it's easy enough to forget to attach the measure's return rod, resulting in powderless cartridges. I've never double-charged on the Dillon, but I've made a bunch of powderless rounds before I noticed the detached return rod.

In The Age BD (Before Dillon), very few folks had access to a progressive press for metallic cartridges. I loaded tens of thousands, if not well over a hundred thousand rounds of handgun ammo on my Rockchucker single stage. Damned few failed to go "bang", and I never blew up a gun. Once you learn the routine, batch processing goes pretty quickly. All my cartridges are stored in plastic boxes and I always work on one box at a time. At the range, empties are placed neck down in the box. When I get around to loading them, all I have to do is turn the box upside down on the bench top after each step, leaving the cases upright and ready to perform the next step. Size all, placing them back in the box neck down as each is sized. Prime all, placing them back in the box neck down as each is primed. Repeat for handgun, this step using the mouth expander. Then, each case is charged with powder, inspected, and a bullet is seated, again placing the finished round into the box, bullet down. The flow is the same for each step and none can be missed because each handled case is immediately returned to the box after each process step.

I don't load any rifle rounds on the Dillon. I don't have enough faith in the powder system, and I don't want to deal with lubed cases after they're loaded. I don't have to deal with lube on the handgun rounds, since all my die sets are carbide.

Personally, I find single-stage loading to be less error-prone, but I own a progressive and have loaded tens of thousands of rounds on it. I also believe the beginner should start with a single stage if he's going to load more than one caliber. It teaches proper die setup and allows inspection of each case after each step.

Regards,

Stew

[azrednek]

Personally, I find single-stage loading to be less error-prone, but I I also believe the beginner should start with a single stage if he's going to load more than one caliber. It teaches proper die setup and allows inspection of each case after each step.

Regards,

Stew

I concur with Stew. A relative decided to get into reloading didn't take my advice and went a bought top of the line Dillon. He pays more in state income taxes than I gross a year so cost was not a factor for him. After a few frustrating attempts he boxed it up and it sat in his garage for years. His wife sold it at a garage sale, are you ready for this, $20.00!!

[mike in co]

I concur with Stew. A relative decided to get into reloading didn't take my advice and went a bought top of the line Dillon. He pays more in state income taxes than I gross a year so cost was not a factor for him. After a few frustrating attempts he boxed it up and it sat in his garage for years. His wife sold it at a garage sale, are you ready for this, $20.00!!

again, its the operator, not the machine..........

i never said reloading was for everyone......

again i never owned a single stage press til a couple yrs back when i was working on 6ppc.

i learned on a progressive.......it is possible to do.......but then there is that statement about not having to be a rocket scientist...well i did use to build and launch them.....

mike in co

[Cowboy T]

i do not disagree with learnign fundimentals...but

when most of the older folks were growing up and learning...99% of the time the only thing out there was a single stage press.....
it aint yesterday, so quit looking back


Wow...pretty hostile there.... :takinWiz:

I'm one of those who isn't one of the "older folks". I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this point, then. BTW, I have no problem with progressives; they're great. Like I said, I have two of them. I just don't recommend them as a *first* press. But after you learn what you're doing, then by all means, get that progressive and churn out that ammo!

[AZ-Stew]

again, its the operator, not the machine..........
mike in co

Its ALWAYS the operator. No argument. Mistakes are made on both types of loaders.

A single-stage press merely simplifies the processing. Only one operation going on at a time. If the novice operator only has to concentrate on a single operation each time he pulls the handle, there's less chance for error. With a progressive, 4-5 operations occur at each pull. For most novices, this is more than they can handle. Too many things to monitor that they don't yet fully understand. Add in that there's no opportunity to thoroughly inspect each round after each operation (if one wants to run a progressive as a true progressive, rather than a complex single-stage) and the possibilities for error go up, while the opportunities for learning go down.

Process, inspect, observe, think about what's been observed.

This all goes away for the novice with a progressive. All they think about is process, process, process, BANG! BANG! BANG! Repeat.

I didn't say learning CAN'T be done on a progressive, I just say it's less likely and requires a longer learning curve.

Regards,

Stew

[mike in co]

not so mr stew.....


as i have pointed out there is 10 more potenial for errors in a single than in a progressive....because we do take the human out.

learn on a progressive....dillon recognizes this and sell the 550b stripped. you have a single press with 4 stations.....sorta like a single stage press without constanly changing dies.
then as you learn...add the progrssive components...powder drop, primer assembly, etc.

you can do the same on the 550b by just doing one case at a time...there is not rule that say you must feed a empty case every pull from day one.

you keep claiming that you have more inspections steps in a single...but that is you , not necessarily the next guy...

as i have said it the operator , not the machine.
if you can only drive an automatic, i do not know if you can reload, but if you can drive a stick, i think you can learn and reload on a progressive.

either i give the average guy too much credit, or you give them too little....

go read my original post.
mike in co

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Interesting the perceptions of individuals trying to sell a product.
I loaded thousands of rounds on my old RCBS Green machine before I got my First Dillion in 1988. Now I have loaded many more thousands of rounds on those and still have a ll my fingers, eyes and toes. I still use the old Green thing for small batches..
I would wonder how many reloading accidents are caused by opperaters who get numb minded by externals sources... Mixing habits with activities that demand full attentional capabilities...
Do not blame a machine.. it is the opperater who is supposed to be in control.
Mike in Peru [smilie=2:

[cajun shooter]

I started with a single stage or wait a minute I started with a Lee hammer kit. 50 rounds a night and I was finished. The wife would get pi---- every time a primer went off. I then bought a RCBS JR and then the Rockchucker. The only proggresive presses were the Lyman, American and of course the Star which was owned by the rich. That Statement was made because of how many times you handle a case while loading on a single. Most loaders in the 60's would size all the cases and prime them. Then bell the mouths and add charge. Then seat and crimp. If you saw the loading bench it would have boxes of cases in different stages of loading.When I first saw an electronic Camdex work I was taken back at the amount of ammo loaded in a day. Even bad jambs could be repaired and back loading within 30 min. The Dillon machines have done a lot for reloading.

[1hole]

"I was just cruising through the Loading bench pics and was noticing all the "mindless" loaders with their Dillon presses."

You have clearly missed the point of my comment. How many Dillons all set up for massive quanities of a single load is needed to suggest detailed user concentration on each round?

[mike in co]

"I was just cruising through the Loading bench pics and was noticing all the "mindless" loaders with their Dillon presses."

You have clearly missed the point of my comment. How many Dillons all set up for massive quanities of a single load is needed to suggest detailed user concentration on each round?

well i missed your point too...tho intentionally...

i only have 2 dillon 550's one in small primer and one in large...it simplifies caliber changes.

i do know people that buy dillon 650/1050's and leave them in a single caliber. sometimes 2/3 machines.
i also know people that buy square deal b's..one in each caliber...cause they work and they are relatively inexpensive...they can afford to leave them in a caliber.

what i do not understand is your ASSumption that these are mindless reloaders. on the contrary, these are typically competitive shooters....a long way from mindless.....

your comment is lost on people that appreciate quality equiptment.................

mike in co

[azrednek]

Like many reloaders I started with a Lee Loader and today use a Lock N Load. I believe it is possible to start on progressive equipment but it depends entirely on the operators mechanical ability. My relative that started with a Dillon unit is the type that would have trouble changing a flat tire or an air filter on a lawn mower. Despite his lack of mechanical skills he is a self-made millionaire and I certainly envy his ability to make money.

I have an impatient personality and if I had jumped into a Dillon unit without going through my learning curve from a Lee Loader, an RCBS Jr, Lee Loadmaster and finally my currently used Lock N Load. The Dillon would have likely gone through the window following a string of profanities.

In summary and simply put. Some have the necessary skills and some don't. I would place myself in the category of those that don't. That doesn't mean there are not plenty of people that could read the instructions once and be operating a progressive loader like a pro in a short time.

[Doc Highwall]

I started loading in 1973 for a Trapdoor Springfield in 45-70 with a Rockchucker and that is what got me into casting. For years I used just that and then added a second Rockchucker along with the RCBS bench mounted priming tool. Today I have three Rockchuckers, two Dillon 550B's one set up for large primers and one for small primers and a Dillon 650 along with nine Dillon powder measures set up for different calibers and at least twelve manual powder measures. OK I admit I am lazy and shooting is for my relaxation and fun. When I reload I want it to go smoothly and without problems after all this is suppose to be an exercise in enjoyment not frustration. I don't care which press or hand dies you are using you have to know what you are doing and trying to accomplish with each step of the reloading process and pay attention at all times.

[AZ-Stew]

Well (as you said) "Mr." Mike, there you go again. I think the only reason you posted is to write something contrary to what I said. It's obvious that either you didn't read my post or you didn't pay any attention to what you were reading.

I look at single-stage presses as giving someone ten times the opportunity to catch errors and learn the handloading craft, while you claim they give them ten times more chance for error. That's pretty negative on your part. I'd say you're the one giving folks too little credit. In addition, just because you "pointed it out", doesn't make it Gospel.

I already told you I own a Dillon 550 and have loaded tens of thousands of rounds on it, most successfully, but if you don't read and pay attention, I guess it doesn't matter. And, by the way, I've driven a stick since 1965, with a couple of tries at automatics. Two of the three I didn't like. The one I have now is pretty nice. I like it better than a stick when I'm operating the Ham rig. Six speeds, smooth shifts, always in the right gear for the driving situation - and hands (and left foot) free!

Lighten up, Mike. Try making suggestions or stating that something is "in your opinion" or "in your experience", rather than implying that anyone who doesn't do things just your way is an idiot. That's the way you come across. Go back and read your own posts. Every one of them is telling someone, either implicitly or explicitly, "you're wrong". It gets old.

Regards,

Stew

[jsizemore]

Stew, you got to know by now that Mike likes to listen to the sound of his own typing!!!

[AZ-Stew]

Yeah, but is sure is fun to :kidding: !

Regards,

Stew

[Char-Gar]

I don't think the fellow that made the original statment about single stage presses has any information or data to back it up...just hot air.

You can make mistakes with any kind of equipment if you don't pay attention. After 40 years with a single stage I bought a Dillon Square D and sold it down river soon thereafter. I loaded a double charge on it and just found it to darn complicated and not worth the effort.

I replaced it with a Redding turret which has plenty of speed for me. That along with three old single stage presses serve me very well.

[mike in co]

I started loading in 1973 for a Trapdoor Springfield in 45-70 with a Rockchucker and that is what got me into casting. For years I used just that and then added a second Rockchucker along with the RCBS bench mounted priming tool. Today I have three Rockchuckers, two Dillon 550B's one set up for large primers and one for small primers and a Dillon 650 along with nine Dillon powder measures set up for different calibers and at least twelve manual powder measures. OK I admit I am lazy and shooting is for my relaxation and fun. When I reload I want it to go smoothly and without problems after all this is suppose to be an exercise in enjoyment not frustration. I don't care which press or hand dies you are using you have to know what you are doing and trying to accomplish with each step of the reloading process and pay attention at all times.

what doc said....

[mike in co]

Well (as you said) "Mr." Mike, there you go again. I think the only reason you posted is to write something contrary to what I said. It's obvious that either you didn't read my post or you didn't pay any attention to what you were reading.

I look at single-stage presses as giving someone ten times the opportunity to catch errors and learn the handloading craft, while you claim they give them ten times more chance for error. That's pretty negative on your part. I'd say you're the one giving folks too little credit. In addition, just because you "pointed it out", doesn't make it Gospel.

I already told you I own a Dillon 550 and have loaded tens of thousands of rounds on it, most successfully, but if you don't read and pay attention, I guess it doesn't matter. And, by the way, I've driven a stick since 1965, with a couple of tries at automatics. Two of the three I didn't like. The one I have now is pretty nice. I like it better than a stick when I'm operating the Ham rig. Six speeds, smooth shifts, always in the right gear for the driving situation - and hands (and left foot) free!

Lighten up, Mike. Try making suggestions or stating that something is "in your opinion" or "in your experience", rather than implying that anyone who doesn't do things just your way is an idiot. That's the way you come across. Go back and read your own posts. Every one of them is telling someone, either implicitly or explicitly, "you're wrong". It gets old.

Regards,

Stew

now who is not reading the entire post....go read mine again.....well get someone to read it too you, you seem to only "read" what you want to hear.....


i only do this to up your post count.

ohh and cause i have a point....
did you read my original post ??/
i think not...well you did not comprehend it...and my last post i cover ed it again.
i swear you said you would put me on your ignore list.....
( but if you do i csannot help with your post count)
mike in co

[Heavy lead]

One is responsible for all aspects of handloading whether on a Lee loader, single stage, or progressive, or for that matter a cap and ball revolver. I use single stage for most rifle, LNL's for pistoliver's, mec's for shotguns, have used turret's also (have none now). Haven't had a double charge (yet, knock on wood) had a couple powderless squibs in the distant past (using a single stage, in my later youth, that was my fault, not the equipment). Attention to detail, and reduntancy checks, and methodical technique is the answer to quality ammunition, not that equipment or the quality and being familiar with it doesn't help. I still will not seat a bullet, or boolit without ever visually verifying a powder charge, period, regardless of the type of press is used. Good lighting is your friend.

[AZ-Stew]

now who is not reading the entire post....go read mine again.....well get someone to read it too you, you seem to only "read" what you want to hear.....


i only do this to up your post count.

ohh and cause i have a point....
did you read my original post ??/
i think not...well you did not comprehend it...and my last post i cover ed it again.
i swear you said you would put me on your ignore list.....
( but if you do i csannot help with your post count)
mike in co

Mike,

I think you need a proof reader. Or a few less beers. Also, learn to use the shift key and think about punctuation. Your posts are getting hard to read.

No, I didn't say I'd put you on my ignore list. I did hint that I might if you got too obnoxious. You haven't quite crossed the line yet. Again, you aren't paying strict attention to what you read.

I hope you feel better tomorrow. You're entertaining.

Regards,

Stew

[1hole]

"well i missed your point too...tho intentionally..."

Soooo...do you often "intentionally" miss the point of what someone has said so you can take "expert" exception to what they didn't say?


"but then there is that statement about not having to be a rocket scientist...well i did use to build and launch them....."

Matter of fact, so did I. Difference between us is I don't toss it out in any attempt to build credibility on any subject based on irrelivances. ???

But, you do what you need to do for whatever is driving your snarly reactions, it's all free for amusement anyway. :)

[mike in co]

"well i missed your point too...tho intentionally..."

Soooo...do you often "intentionally" miss the point of what someone has said so you can take "expert" exception to what they didn't say?


"but then there is that statement about not having to be a rocket scientist...well i did use to build and launch them....."

Matter of fact, so did I. Difference between us is I don't toss it out in any attempt to build credibility on any subject based on irrelivances. ???

But, you do what you need to do for whatever is driving your snarly reactions, it's all free for amusement anyway. :)

so maybe you should read alittle and then get someone to explain what you read.

where did i say i was an expert ??....dont put words in my mouth....

so go away and come back when you grow up and can follow a conversation.......
later

mike in co

[mike in co]

Well (as you said) "Mr." Mike, there you go again. I think the only reason you posted is to write something contrary to what I said. It's obvious that either you didn't read my post or you didn't pay any attention to what you were reading.

I look at single-stage presses as giving someone ten times the opportunity to catch errors and learn the handloading craft, while you claim they give them ten times more chance for error. That's pretty negative on your part. I'd say you're the one giving folks too little credit. In addition, just because you "pointed it out", doesn't make it Gospel.
Regards,

Stew

ok since you did not go back and read what i ACTUALLY said, i'll post it with yours.

"i agree with tthe potemtial in a single stage press, for more errors.
its simple you load fifty rounds on a single.....you handle the case
look as the list
touch ..into press, size, deprime reprime, touch....50 times
touch bell the case touch....fifty times
touch drop powder touch( or one big touch if using a loading block.....fifty up and downs on the powder measure.
touch seat bullet/boolit touch
touch crimp touch..........
go count the "touches" every one is a POTENTIAL for error....and a potential to DISCOVER the error.
10 touches x 50 cases= 500 potentials for error"


can you see the word "potential".............i did not say every person made 500 errors...i did not say that some people are capable of checking what they do, but i did say, in response to the ORIGINAL QUESTION, that yes there is a POTENTIAL for more errors with a single stage press.

now go read the second to last line......."and a potential to DISCOVER the error."

so tell me again where we dissagree and where i was negative in respose to the original question.


mike in co

[Crash_Corrigan]

I made the mistake of starting out with a Lee Loadmaster progressive press. It was complicated. It was tough to set up right. It is a wonder to behold when it is working right. With the auto case feeder and bullet feeder it can really churn out the ammo.

However the primer system is insane. I was always having problems with it and I was constantly cleaning spilled powder from the shell plate and the press. I cannot tell you of how many rounds came out with a missing primer or a primer sideways in the primer hole.

I finally junked it and got a Dillon 550B. Now that is a decent semi=progressive press. The only weak point is the again the priming system. It does not always pick up a new primer from the magazine and I have found that operating the press at a deliberate speed where I can feel the primer being pushed into the pocket prevents any primer problems.

Now I have set up one of those cheapo LED flashlights into the center of the press to illuminate the opertion and I can see if the primer cup has a primer from the magazine and rectify the situation before I miss priming a case.

The only other problem is the manual indexing of the shellplate. If you forget you will double charge the case so using a light or bulky powder is a requirement. If I see there is already powder in the case then I just advance the shellplate. If there is not then I operate the handle of the press and motor on.

I load for 13 calibers and this press and my Dillon Square Deal get a workout. I still have two single stage presses for decapping and priming and for certain rifle rounds and I have a new Lee Classic Turret Press that I am putting into service but I am still learning about the priming process on this baby. Typical Lee rube goldberg system but it may work out.....

[mike in co]

crash,
deprime on the dillon its faster........

mike

[dromia]

Mike and AZ can we stay on topic please.

Wouldn't want it to get personal now would we?

[mike in co]

Mike and AZ can we stay on topic please.

Wouldn't want it to get personal now would we?


???????????????????
dromia...ya got me confused...
????????????????///

only my last comment is not on the ORIGINAL topic, it was in response to depriming on a single stage when a dillon was available.......

all else has been about the original post.....

" more ROOM FOR ERRORS with a single stage press than progressive"

notice it does not say MORE ERRORS

[jcwit]

Well if one walks thru the pasture long enough, sooner or later it going to go squish. Holds tru for anything or whatever you're doing.

Just a fact of life.

[Geraldo]

Well if one walks thru the pasture long enough, sooner or later it going to go squish. Holds tru for anything or whatever you're doing.

Just a fact of life.

Maybe in some things, but not everything. In my career the acceptable level of error was "zero". My belief is that if you expect or accept mistakes, you will make them. My goal with ammo is perfection, every single time, and nothing less is acceptable to me. If that means going slower and rechecking, then so be it.

The type of press doesn't matter one bit as to frequency of error, because to my knowledge there is no press that loads components and operates itself. People can blame the machine, but in the end it all boils down to operator error.

[mike in co]

Maybe in some things, but not everything. In my career the acceptable level of error was "zero". My belief is that if you expect or accept mistakes, you will make them. My goal with ammo is perfection, every single time, and nothing less is acceptable to me. If that means going slower and rechecking, then so be it.

The type of press doesn't matter one bit as to frequency of error, because to my knowledge there is no press that loads components and operates itself. People can blame the machine, but in the end it all boils down to operator error.

g,, i agree with most of wht you said, which is why the poster is on my ignore list.

but the type of press does matter as to the (potential) for frequency of error. go look at my origianl post. more human touches is more potentila errors/chances to find errors.

mike in co

[dromia]

???????????????????
dromia...ya got me confused...
????????????????///



Mike I'm sure you get my point, no need for us to disambiguate. :-)

[jcwit]

Maybe in some things, but not everything. In my career the acceptable level of error was "zero". My belief is that if you expect or accept mistakes, you will make them. My goal with ammo is perfection, every single time, and nothing less is acceptable to me. If that means going slower and rechecking, then so be it.

The type of press doesn't matter one bit as to frequency of error, because to my knowledge there is no press that loads components and operates itself. People can blame the machine, but in the end it all boils down to operator error.

The idea is great, just doesn't hold up in real life tho. I'm sure NASA's goal is "ZERO" defects, even so we lost two of the space shuttles over the years. Errors happen every day, no matter how many safety steps we take. After all we are human, and not God. Just because it hasn't happened, only means - - not yet.

BTW; Thanks Mike for the info, good to know, if by chance you read this.

[atr]

I only use a single stage press,,,,,and I load for 10 different calibers....
I agree with Duckiller....the more you handle a case the more opportunity you have to discover any error
in my opinion the biggest potential for error with a single stage operation, is when loading for a reduced load with fast burning powder...the potential for a double charge is very great.
I don't know how a progressive press handles this potential for a double charge, but I do know that with single stage operation, viewing the charged cases with a flashlight is foolproof.

[Down South]

I loaded with a Rockchucker for about 37 years. I started high volume shooting so I bought a Dillon RL 550B. It works great. The learing curve ain't bad. Since then, I've bought a second RL 550B. One is set up for large primers and the other for small primers.
I still use the Rockchucker for my hunting rounds. I like to weigh every powder charge and do several inspections of the case through the reloading cycle for the hunting rounds.

I did buy a chepie Lee press a few weeks ago. I mounted it to a 2"X6"X3' for a portable press to C-clamp down on a picnic table where I stay at during the week to process brass with Military primer crimps.

[mdi]

i'll stand by my statement....do not buy a single satge press if you are going to do volume shooting, buy a progressive to start with.
if you are a hunter/low volume shooter, yes a single will work,

mike in co[/QUOTE]

And whil you're at it buy a range rod (to pound out the squibs from powderless ammo), and a bullet puller (for taking apart loads with the sideways or backward primers), maybe a new barrel (for when you touch off a round after the squib you didn't notice).

Personally, I prefer quality over quantity...

[1hole]

Mike: g,, i agree with most of wht you said, which is why the poster is on my ignore list. (sic)

Those who comment about their "ignore list" amuse me; guess it's intended to put someone in their place. Is there some emotional value in that ?? I prefer to stick to the OP's question as much as possible but sometimes..... it just ain't possible!

[David2011]

Here's my 2 cents worth, a series of random thoughts on my experiences with progressive loading. I hope it's on-topic.

For starters, anyone who thinks you don't have to pay as much attention loading on a progressive because you load the same round day in and day out is mistaken. You have a multitude of things to keep up with, mostly by feel and sound. If you hear or feel something unusual, you have to stop immediately and figure out what's wrong. You "simply" have to pay much closer attention at a much higher rate of speed to many more things. The reward is a lot of ammunition in a short amount of time. I recently timed myself on my Dillon XL650 which has a case feeder. I couldn't maintain this rate for long because of supplies running out but in two minutes I made 50 rounds. That average gets blown as soon as you have to replace primers. A typical average over several hundred rounds would be closer to 20 rounds per minute. With several primer tubes ready that can be maintained until the primer tubes are empty. With an assistant to keep primers in the tubes and brass in the casefeeder you can actually produce 1000-1200 in an hour. You will be tired. It's more an issue of concentration at that level for that long than the physical effort, but there is some effort expended at that rate.

The 650 has, to me, a vastly superior primer handling system. Recently Jimmy Mitchell to me that his 650s ran much smoother with the new design of CCI primers. I tried them and agree. The older CCIs kind of crunched as they went into the pockets. The new ones in the dark blue boxes go in smoother than any brand I've used which includes all of the major brands. I personally still prefer Federal primers for my slicked up revolvers with reduced hammer springs but the CCIs have been flawless in my STI with a standard mainspring which is the same as for any 1911/2011.

My first press was an RCBS JR2 purchased well used in the early '80s; still have it. Got my first Dillon, a 550B, in 1991; still have it. My total inventory is now 2 RCBS JRs, a Rock Chucker, Square Deal B, 550B and an XL650. The Sq Deal B only loads 9mm. I use a single stage press to correct little problems like a primer not coming free of the case when I'm loading on a progressive. Most of my rifle rounds are loaded on the Rock Chucker. I have 38 Super, .40 S&W, 45ACP, .380 ACP and .30-'06 capability for the 650 but as with many reloaders, it is almost always set up for on caliber, the .40 S&W which I use in IPSC competition.

The Rock Chucker became much more handy when I got the Hornady Lock-n-Load adapter and die bushings. Set the dies one time and they can be changed very easily. They hold their settings so they'er always ready to use.

The Dillon 550B gets changed regularly. It is much faster to change than the 650 and the caliber conversions are much less expensive than those for the 650. The 550 is used for .40, 9mm, .45ACP, .38/.357, .380 ACP, .45 Colt and anything else that uses the .45/ .30-'06 shellplate. Its priming system is a little cantankerous but it's obvious from the feel when it doesn't work right. It has to be kept very clean with no lube to work right. The 550 is the only press I've ever made a double charge with. Fortunately, it was a powder puff .45 ACP load and while I certainly noticed, there was no damage. It only happened once. It was with Winchester Super Target and a 200 grain cast boolit. I imagine that a heavier or jacket bullet might have made for a different outcome so I was lucky.

I noticed that a friend always left the handle down on his press. He only loaded .40 and used a 650. It was immediately obvious that with the handle down and the stage up, there was never any doubt as to what was going on at each stage. I started doing the same thing. It is far less ambiguous than leaving the stage down. Had I been using the handle down trick when stepping away from the machine at the time, it might have prevented my one double charge. I know two people who learned on Dillon 650s and are both "A" Class USPSA shooters with their reloads so it is possible to learn on a complex machine and produce quality ammunition. You can't make "A" Class with unreliable ammo.

It is hard to double charge or have an uncharged case on a Square Deal B or 650 beacuse of the auto indexing.

When I load .223 for an AR or .30-'06 for my Garand on the Dillon 550 I prep the cases befoer putting them in the progressive press. To prevent scratching dies, I tumble polish the brass, decap and size on a single stage press and polish again to remove the lube residue. For small batches I've found that lighter fluid or charcoal starter on a rag gets the cases clean with little effort. USe all precautions handling such flammable materials. I use Dillon or RCBS case lube; both come off easily with corn cob media. I like to keep separate media to remove the lube because it clogs the surface of the media quickly. For the Garand I prime separately. For the .223 I prime in the 550, with no sizing die present. I find that the loads are as good as my ability to shoot iron sights to 100 yd. If I want a little more accuracy I'll go back to weighed charges but honestly it's hard to see much difference between metered and weighed charges from the bench. Extreme spreads don't seem to be consistently tighter with weighed charges.

For what it's worth,
David

[mdi]

???????????????????
dromia...ya got me confused...
????????????????///

only my last comment is not on the ORIGINAL topic, it was in response to depriming on a single stage when a dillon was available.......

all else has been about the original post.....

" more ROOM FOR ERRORS with a single stage press than progressive"

notice it does not say MORE ERRORS

Sorry for geting personal, but this guy argues with everybody that doesn't share HIS opinion...

[Geraldo]

The idea is great, just doesn't hold up in real life tho. I'm sure NASA's goal is "ZERO" defects, even so we lost two of the space shuttles over the years. Errors happen every day, no matter how many safety steps we take. After all we are human, and not God. Just because it hasn't happened, only means - - not yet.

BTW; Thanks Mike for the info, good to know, if by chance you read this.

I know people make errors every day, I made my living dealing with their larger (sometimes life threatening) screw-ups. The truth is that some people screw up over and over again, while others never do. It has nothing to do with being god-like and everything to do with following a safe process and keeping one's head in the game.

[Cowboy T]

I think the big thing here is that no matter what kind of press you're using, you should always...

PAY ATTENTION!!

Anybody here disagree with that?

[Heavy lead]

I think the big thing here is that no matter what kind of press you're using, you should always...

PAY ATTENTION!!

Anybody here disagree with that?

nope [smilie=w:

[mike in co]

i'll stand by my statement....do not buy a single satge press if you are going to do volume shooting, buy a progressive to start with.
if you are a hunter/low volume shooter, yes a single will work,

mike in co

And whil you're at it buy a range rod (to pound out the squibs from powderless ammo), and a bullet puller (for taking apart loads with the sideways or backward primers), maybe a new barrel (for when you touch off a round after the squib you didn't notice).

Personally, I prefer quality over quantity...[/QUOTE]


so your saying that you do not know how to load...i have at this point something in excess of thirty years on progressive presses.....no squibs...no side ways primers, no backwards primers.
a squib you did not notice??? the the heck are you doing that you do not notice a squib...???? that stsatement alone leads me to believe YOU are better off with a single stage press, and single shot guns....
so where did you get the info ?? personal experience..or just internet "stories"

the only bullet i ever knocked out of a bbl was from a FACTORY round....
i perfere quanity with quality..there is no rule thats says one cannot have them both......

mike in co

[mike in co]

Sorry for geting personal, but this guy argues with everybody that doesn't share HIS opinion...

so , when you have something intelligent to say come on back..

did you read the original post ??

did you read my response ??

i simply furnished FACTS on the subject......not "how i do" .....facts on the original topic......

mike in co

[mike in co]

When I load .223 for an AR or .30-'06 for my Garand on the Dillon 550 I prep the cases befoer putting them in the progressive press. To prevent scratching dies, I tumble polish the brass, decap and size on a single stage press and polish again to remove the lube residue. For small batches I've found that lighter fluid or charcoal starter on a rag gets the cases clean with little effort. USe all precautions handling such flammable materials. I use Dillon or RCBS case lube; both come off easily with corn cob media. I like to keep separate media to remove the lube because it clogs the surface of the media quickly. For the Garand I prime separately. For the .223 I prime in the 550, with no sizing die present. I find that the loads are as good as my ability to shoot iron sights to 100 yd. If I want a little more accuracy I'll go back to weighed charges but honestly it's hard to see much difference between metered and weighed charges from the bench. Extreme spreads don't seem to be consistently tighter with weighed charges.

For what it's worth,
David

i have no idea if its on topic or not, but here is a suggestion i just made to another dillon user.
do your sizing/depriming on the dillon....skip the single stage press. it is actually faster on the dillon..you are just puting th ecase in, never taking it back out...it drops out out of the 4th station turn..
i do a lot of brass brep before loading. i have several tool heads that have split die sets. prep in one tool head, powder/seat/crimp in the other.

mike in co

[Lloyd Smale]

first of all anyone that will tell you hes never had a handload fail to go off just hasnt loaded enough ammo. eventually you will make a mistake and it doesnt matter if your using a single stage or a progressive and if all you use is a single stage my argument is over right there as you havent. . It isnt just handloads. Shoot enough factory ammo and your eventually going to get a bad one too. Now if its happening more then rarely you have a problem. If its because your a sloppy loader changing equiptment isnt going to help as I know guys that have had squibs and overcharges with both single stage and progressives. Like was said a single stage may give a guy more of an oppertunity to check things but if your not the type to check things a progressive at least guarantees that the operation was attemped. Same goes for the argument that because a 550 doesnt automaticaly advance its dangerous. If your the type that is dangerous with a 550 you should take up a different hobby! dillon and hornady make the best progressive presses on the market but neither come with an extra packet of common sense. that you need to bring yourself.

[jcwit]

I think the two words "common sense" is really what applies here, whether with a Lee or Wilson, hammer or arbor type. or the fanciest auto loader available.

Loyd, your post makes extremally good sense.

[pmeisel]

David, Lloyd, really good posts.

I am a single stage guy, I just don't shoot enough to need a prog... and I need a reason to be in the workshop so I don't have to watch the same TV programs my wife likes!

I like checking everything twice.

As for mistakes, in loading about 150 rounds last week, I had to pull down two uncharged loads and one where the bullet just didn't seat properly.

[mdi]

so , when you have something intelligent to say come on back..

did you read the original post ??

did you read my response ??

i simply furnished FACTS on the subject......not "how i do" .....facts on the original topic......

mike in co
Yep read everything, including your remarks. BTW, your "facts" are only your "opinions". And no Mike, I ain't gonna fall for that again...

[Elkins45]

I didn't read the whole thread, but reading these last few posts makes it seem like it has degenerated into name calling and hurt feelings. I'll pass on getting involved in that.

I will, however, comment on the OP. I think this is one of these situations where a statistical fact is meaningless in real life. More accurately, a fact is considered in isolation without taking all the relevant circumstances into account.

It takes five operations to turn an empty case into a live round: resize, prime, flare, charge, seat. Five operations, five chances for errors. On a single stage press this means the human must perform all five steps in a separate operation. On a progressive all five happen at once, though not all to the same case. So it is statistically true that there are more opportunities for human error to be introduced into the equation.

BUT:
1) there are also more opportunities for the human operator to discover and correct any errors. A sideways primer or uncharged case is more likely to be undetected on a progressive than when doing those operations one at a time.

2) there are more opportunities for mechanical errors, since the machine is doing more of the operations without the express guidance of the operator.

I've never tried to charge an unprimed case and I've never seated a bullet on a a case without powder when loading on a single stage. I have done both when loading on a progressive.

So, in summary, while there are theoretically more chances for human errors on a single stage press, those theoretical errors seem to get cancelled out in practice.

My apologies if I have restated what someone else has already said.

[mike in co]

I

So, in summary, while there are theoretically more chances for human errors on a single stage press, those theoretical errors seem to get cancelled out in practice.

My apologies if I have restated what someone else has already said.

sir i am gald you have the ability to read and comprehend. it would appear that others do not.

if you look at my original post, we have said approximately the same thing. the problem with assuming that a person will find an error is that there is the same possibility a person will miss or make an error. remember we are talking "possibilities.". that was the original question. in practice not all those errors get cancelled out, as we still see people makeing errors. see the post above...150 rds, two uncharged cases WITH A SINGLE STAGE PRESS.
you correctly count five operations, but with a single stage press that is 10 touches by a person( case in/case out), in a progressive it is only one touch(case in).
while it would be nice to say the errros get caught, it is only true of some reloaders, not all.

what the guy said: pay attention !!!

mike in co

[mike in co]

Yep read everything, including your remarks. BTW, your "facts" are only your "opinions". And no Mike, I ain't gonna fall for that again...

the facts i posted :
1)are that with a single stage press, one touches a case 10 time in doing the std 5 operations of reloading....

2) that with a progrssive press, one only touches the case once...going into the press.

and that leaves 10 times more potential errors/chances find errors in a single stage press.


maybe you can explain to the rest of how those FACTS are only opinions.

those are simple numbers based on the task...it has nothing to do with opinions, nor who is doing the task....numbers only.

speak up

mike in co

[pmeisel]

So, in summary, while there are theoretically more chances for human errors on a single stage press, those theoretical errors seem to get cancelled out in practice.

Elkins, I think you state it nicely.

[Down South]

Well, you know what. I think every serious reloader ought to have at least one of both, a single stage and a progressive. Now, I'm using my reloading situation for these reasons. My hunting rounds go through a single stage. My brass prep goes through a single stage. Other cases for my revolvers, pistols and black gun go through a progressive (Once the brass has its initial prep).
I can understand Mike’s reasoning for a reloader that only wants to buy one press. Get a good progressive if the wallet allows. Set it up single stage if you want till you get the hang of it. Use it single stage for precision reloading or just loading moderately. If you decide that you want to start loading 100’s to 1000’s of rounds at a time then a progressive is the way to go unless you have much more time on your hands than I do and you just love sitting in front of a press.
The learning curve is a bit more on a progressive compared to a single stage and some progressives are just plain problematic. If you decide to go progressive, then get a good one. I prefer Dillon’s but there are a few other brands out there that work well.

And yes, I’ve had a few hiccups (Mistakes) in my 37 years of reloading. Always pay attention to detail. Keep your mind on what you are doing.

[Lloyd Smale]

down south i agree. As much as i preach the progressives i still have two single stage presses and use them almost daily. I use them for all my bottleneck rifle ammo except the .223 and 308 and i use them for all kinds of little jobs. For the odds and ends bottle neck ammo like the 06 2506 257 250 ect i just dont shoot enough of them to justify setting up a progressive and running 500 rounds. Mostly i will load about a 100 and i usually trim them every time so it just doesnt make sense to put them in and out of a progressive to clean off lube and to trim. I do kind of agree with mike as far as mistakes go. If your the type that is going to be making loading mistakes you will probably do it even more on a single stage press. there is just more human contact that allows for it. A properly running progressive press wont alow you to forget to prime or to forget to put powder in a case or double charge a case. the key to it is a PROPERLY running progressive press. Another thing i see with guys running progressives and ive been guilty of this in the past myself is that you take for granted the press is taking care of business. When running a progressive press you have to have your head in the game. Not watching tv or drinking beer. A guy that is experience on a progressive can feel when something isnt right but you still have to have the pressence of mind to stop and see what the problem is.

[1hole]

The intelligent way to choose a press is for what purpose and volume we will use it. Making a choice based on which press we are supposedly more or less likely to make a mistake with is silly.

[Down South]

Same here Lloyd, all of my bottle neck cases except for the .223 go through a single stage. Like you, I just don't load enough of them to justify running them through a progressive PLUS I like to weigh every charge on those and do my inspections through the loading cycle.
Even though I have two Dillon 550’s, my old Rockchuker sees its share of business. Even the Cheap Lee single stage I have has already had thousands of rounds through it and it ain’t even more than a month old. The Lee is my portable brass prep press. It is what I use while sitting around my camper in the evenings after work prepping brass with.

LOL, you should hear some of the comments that I get from other campers in the RV park when they stroll by while I’m set up on a picnic table outside my RV processing brass.

[Heavy lead]

the facts i posted :
1)are that with a single stage press, one touches a case 10 time in doing the std 5 operations of reloading....

2) that with a progrssive press, one only touches the case once...going into the press.

and that leaves 10 times more potential errors/chances find errors in a single stage press.


maybe you can explain to the rest of how those FACTS are only opinions.

those are simple numbers based on the task...it has nothing to do with opinions, nor who is doing the task....numbers only.

speak up

mike in co

Your words are true, but since you touch a case far less it gives you far less chances for inspection. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of progressives, good ones. But there is a time and place for everything. I simply want to batch load rifle ammunition for the most part, even though I could set one of my LNL's for it. Also some people just simply cannot run the progressive right, they just cannot multitask as well as others and are not mechanically inclined.
Regardless of what you use, you have to build in redundant techniques, or sooner or later it'll happen.