Ideal 357443, 4-cavity

[keyhole]

Some months back I purchased an Ideal 357443 mold, 4 cavity in unused condition. I thought that it would be useful for midrange .38 Special loads.

I have used a 2 cavity Lyman 358156 mold for such purposes for about 35 years. The 358156 bullets have worked very well in several S&W revolvers, 50's-70's vintage. Load is bullet sized .358 in Lyman Lubrisizer, whatever bullet lube I can find cheapest, Win WLP primers, 5.0 grains Unique.

I thought that the 357443 mold would be better for higher volume casting. Loads with same primer, powder, etc. as above have been inaccurate in the same S&W revolvers (6-8" groups at 25 yds.) Groups using 358156 bullets in same guns are much smaller. According to my 1973 Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 357443 bullet weight from #2 alloy is 158 grains. I do not have any samples to measure diameter as cast.
I am now wondering for what cartridge or application this mold was intended. I get an occasional keyhole. Is it possible that the 357443 mold throws bullets too small for a normal .38 Special bore?

Thank you for your thoughts.

Keyhole

[Echo]

KH, the -443 is a good boolit, suitable for .38's and .357's. I guess we need to know what the diameter of the sized boolits is. Five grains of Unique is plenty to stabilize the boolits, so I am suspicious. But I guess you used the same sizing die on both types. What do the -443's weigh? Did you have gas checks on the -156's? What do the bases of the -443's look like? Are they being sized by the lube/sizer, or just lubed? If they came from the mold smaller than .358, no sizing would take place. Pictures?

[Ben]

The 443' will shoot accurately, I've owned them in the past ( not right now however..), I've shot them with very good accuracy from the 38 Spec. and the 357 mag.

Sounds like maybe your bullets are dropping from the mold " sub - sized ".

Put a mic on the 443' bullets you are casting ( prior to any attempts at lube / sizing ), and report back.

Ben

[keyhole]

Echo, Ben

Thank you for your comments.
I left the cavities full when I ended last casting session, so I dropped them out today. Using both a Starrett and Midway (Chinese) dial caliper, I measured all 4 boolits 0.3595-.0360. This seems very uniform to me for pistol boolits. Maybe it is not, your thoughts are welcome. Bullet metal is wheel weights. Weight of the bullet from each cavity is 166.1, 166.3, 166.1, 166.0 grains. Again, this seems pretty good from a 4 cavity mold, but frankly I have never weighed bullets from my other 4 cavity molds. So my experience is very limited.
They were sized in the same 0.358 H&I die as the 358156's I mentioned in my initial post. I ran them through this same 0.358 die just now without lubing. All driving bands show sizing, that is bands are shiny when before they were dull like rest of boolit. The very top band (above the crimping groove) was not sized. The amount of sizing looks normal, there is not excessive metal pushed into the grooves.

Is there anything else I should try? I have Bullseye and Red Dot powders, besides Unique

Again, thank you for your help.

Keyhole

[HeavyMetal]

Pistols can be mighty finicky when it comes to boolits they like.

Also some boolits like to be driven hard others don't care.

5 grains Unique seem a bit light and that could be an issue.

Try 5 grains Reddot that may change things up for you.

Those "Large" winchester primers might be causing some issue to?

LOL!!

[Ben]

keyhole :

Sounds like your numbers are very good ! !

Ummm, got to be the propellant choice. You keep experimenting with different loads, I believe with bullet diameters like you've got , the 443' should shoot ? ?

Is there any possibility that your top punch isn't centered co-axially with your sizing die. Does the bullet show any signs of being sized " off - center " ?

I'd be curious to know how bullets that were sized in a Lee " push thru .358 " sizing die shot for you ?

Ben

[keyhole]

Boy, yes WLP primers would be a problem all right. How about WSP instead?
The top punch could possibly be an issue, Ben. The Lyman manual call for a #395. The closest I have is a #495. Will put a #395 on the shopping list. Sizing does seem to be uniform around the circumference of each boolit. The band widths are the same after sizing on all the boolits, meaning no narrow spot or unusually wide spots.
I don't have a Lee .358 push-thru die. I will put that on the shopping list too. Ben, after pushing thru the Lee die what would you do for lubing? This is not a tumble lube style bullet, of course. Would you tumble in Lee liquid Alox before sizing and then run thru Lyman H&I die to apply lube in the grooves. Lee states that you must have lube on the bullet before running thru their sizing die.

I need to cast more and try different/ more powder as well as use the correct top punch.

Thanks to all

Keyhole

[TCFAN]

keyhole
If that was my mold I would shoot those boolits as cast. .359-.360 is near perfect for my S&w and ruger revolvers.
Just buy a .360 size and lube die for your Lyman luber and shoot as cast.
Then after they are lubed if you need to size smaller you could get the Lee push through die in the right size.

It works for me..........Make up a dummy round with a as cast boolit and try in your guns...................Terry

[Ben]

keyhole :

Q - - - Ben, after pushing thru the Lee die what would you do for lubing?

A - - - I take the .358 " sized bullets ( from the Lee push thru die ) and go over to my Lyman 45 and push them down into a .360" dia. H & I sizing die. ( There is obviously no further sizing being done in this step, but this allows lube to be pushed into the lube rings without any other possible distortion of the bullet )


Q----------Lee states that you must have lube on the bullet before running thru their sizing die.

A---------- I lube with wheel bearing grease( a super thin film ) about every 4th or 5th bullet , I've never had any lead build-up in a Lee push thru sizing die.

[keyhole]

Thanks Ben, Terry

This is becoming a little clearer to me. A .360 H&I die is now on the shopping list. I do remember reading a number of times that sizing does not always improve accuracy. The bullets seem pretty round already so I will try shooting them basically unsized.

Thank you for the ideas.

Steve

[Ben]

Steve ,

That may do the " trick " for you. I hope so.

Good Luck with your 443'

Best,

Ben