BFR 7.5 vs 10 inch 45-70

[donjose]

How much differance is this going to make as far a velocity and shooting recoil as well.


Jason

[Frank]

You can expect a 50 fps difference between the two models. Recoil and muzzle flip will be slightly more with the shorter gun, but it sure would be handier. Have you ever shot a big bore revolver?

[donjose]

Nope I have only shot 44 mag full house loads! Just trying to get an idea of the whole program
Just want to make sure I spend the money well.


Jason

[Lonerider]

Donjose, I once had the 45-70 with the 7.5. Eventually, I had it cut down to 6 or 6.5 deepending how you measure it. I was very happy camper. I did not notice much of a difference in recoil with full throttle loads. The Handling/carrying capabilites were greatly improved with the shorter barrel. I also had a williams firesight intalled up front.

Just a caution: Had a bad expierence with their customer service, one reason I got rid of it. You can PM me and I will give the details. With that said, if you can talked to their custom shop before you order and visit with Bret, you will be in good shape. Good bunch of people in that area of Magnum Research.

I have heard that Magnum Research, has since sold out to another company. Hopefully, the new company will do better job with logistics and customer service. Be sure to call the new company and see if they will honor previous Magnum Research guns, once they have full control.

I liked my BFR 45-70. It was solid and worth the investment and if you do your home work, will bring you years if enjoyable service.

Lonerider

[44man]

The 45-70 is tricky to work powder with if the barrel is too short. The huge case volume is the culprit. I use nothing but 4759 in the 10" yet have no idea what it does in the shorter barrels.
Most guys would wind up with Unique or something and then why buy a 45-70? However 4759 just might still work.
It is hard to compare barrel length between calibers, you can only do that with the same caliber.
My 45-70, 10" gets 1632 fps with 317 and 330 gr boolits.
My .475, 7-1/2" gets 1329 fps with a 420 gr boolit.
MR has some figures about recoil factor.
A 7-1/2" SBH in .44 has 99#
A 7-1/2" 45-70 has 74# but that is at 1472 fps so if you add 200 fps it will recoil like a .44.
A Freedom 7-1/2" .454 has 117#
They don't show the .475 with an over 400 gr boolit. They only show .480 loads.
I tried to work it out with my guns that have Ultra Dot's on them.
The 45-70 weighs 4.75# and shows a recoil of 84#
The .475 weighs 4.25# and shows only 68# of recoil. That just does not sound right to me.
Then I tried bare guns with no red dot.
The 10" 45-70 with a 317 gr at 1632 is 84.59#
The 7-1/2" .475 with a 420 gr at 1329 is 78#.
It appears this measures recoil impulse based on velocity and the speed of recoil and not the heavy push and barrel rise of heavy boolits.
I know you all feel the .454 or a gun with light fast boolits does seem much sharper. Speed up a heavy boolit and it gets worse.
Is my .475 really that much of a whimp???? Sure does not feel that way, the .44 is a toy after shooting it. :bigsmyl2:

[tek4260]

My 475 feels like a wimp compared to my heavy 325gr 45 Colt loads.

[whitetailsniper]

donjose,
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU BUY THAT! LIKE MANY I TO JUMPTED ON THE MAGNUM RESEARCH BAND WAGON, I LOVED THE LOOKS OF THERE DESERT EAGLES, AS WELL AS THE BFR REVOLVERS. WELL LETS JUST SAY I USE TO,,,, i own 2 50ae one of each the usa version,and the isreali version, i also bought a 44 mag eagle, i bought the bfr 45/70 10 in barrel,, and bought there 22 mountain eagle pistol for my son. heres what happen,and what ive learned. what your about to put out for that bfr 45/70 my opion is DONT BUY IT! read the specs on that gun closely. when reading youll see the cylinder is sized .458 and youll also see the bore is size. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SHOOT,OR CAST ,you will not get good groups with there gun. when i got mine i paid 830.00 for it new,,then took to magnaport for custom work, another 600.00 totaling 1430.00 after the fact i had this gun for a few yrs,,2 to be exact, and no matter what factory rounds i bought and shot through it,no matter what reloading i did for it,,all groups were below substandard. as good as it looked, it was **** from the begining. i sold it on gunbroker for 1300.00 and i feel i was lucky to get that. DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR,,save a few more dollars and buy a freedom arms field grade. much better quality,and is made correctly. my eagles i bought ,,i had problems right out of the box on all eagles except the 22 mountain pistol i got for my son. its the only gun from magnum research with no issues. the 50 ae pistols both of them had feeding problems,,after a short while i called magnum research and complained,,, i shipted them back the guns after putting out 1250.00 each,,now i had to put out to ship back for them to fix,,,they had my guns for 3MONTHS!!,, WHILE THEY WERE BACK IN THE CO. HANDS BEING FIXED,,MY 44 EAGLE SPRINGS BROKE, and ramp chipted off. i called them and i gave them hell,,, now my 44 was off to them to be fixed,and only after 62 rounds were fired through it. now they have 3 out of 5 guns i bought from them. to be fixed. FOR THE COST OF THERE GUNS,, this was not exceptable,,not at all. then my bfr i tried everything i could think of to get acceptable grouping ,,with no luck!! so i sold it,,when i finally got my guns back,,magnum reasearch sent me back with the guns,a big box of hats, tee shirts,pins,sweatshirts to make up for there lack in quality control, and quality. i threw the whole box in trash,and sold everyone of there guns. even my sons 22 pistol,and bought him a ruger 22 pistol. moral of this story is,,,be wise do your homework before putting out your hard earned cash for guns that look good,but in fact are ****. freadom arms makes a 45/70 revolver,,much better quality,,and fine craftsman ship to be sure. be careful,choose wisely.

[tek4260]

Are you sure FA makes a 45-70 revolver?

[44man]

donjose,
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU BUY THAT! LIKE MANY I TO JUMPTED ON THE MAGNUM RESEARCH BAND WAGON, I LOVED THE LOOKS OF THERE DESERT EAGLES, AS WELL AS THE BFR REVOLVERS. WELL LETS JUST SAY I USE TO,,,, i own 2 50ae one of each the usa version,and the isreali version, i also bought a 44 mag eagle, i bought the bfr 45/70 10 in barrel,, and bought there 22 mountain eagle pistol for my son. heres what happen,and what ive learned. what your about to put out for that bfr 45/70 my opion is DONT BUY IT! read the specs on that gun closely. when reading youll see the cylinder is sized .458 and youll also see the bore is size. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SHOOT,OR CAST ,you will not get good groups with there gun. when i got mine i paid 830.00 for it new,,then took to magnaport for custom work, another 600.00 totaling 1430.00 after the fact i had this gun for a few yrs,,2 to be exact, and no matter what factory rounds i bought and shot through it,no matter what reloading i did for it,,all groups were below substandard. as good as it looked, it was **** from the begining. i sold it on gunbroker for 1300.00 and i feel i was lucky to get that. DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR,,save a few more dollars and buy a freedom arms field grade. much better quality,and is made correctly. my eagles i bought ,,i had problems right out of the box on all eagles except the 22 mountain pistol i got for my son. its the only gun from magnum research with no issues. the 50 ae pistols both of them had feeding problems,,after a short while i called magnum research and complained,,, i shipted them back the guns after putting out 1250.00 each,,now i had to put out to ship back for them to fix,,,they had my guns for 3MONTHS!!,, WHILE THEY WERE BACK IN THE CO. HANDS BEING FIXED,,MY 44 EAGLE SPRINGS BROKE, and ramp chipted off. i called them and i gave them hell,,, now my 44 was off to them to be fixed,and only after 62 rounds were fired through it. now they have 3 out of 5 guns i bought from them. to be fixed. FOR THE COST OF THERE GUNS,, this was not exceptable,,not at all. then my bfr i tried everything i could think of to get acceptable grouping ,,with no luck!! so i sold it,,when i finally got my guns back,,magnum reasearch sent me back with the guns,a big box of hats, tee shirts,pins,sweatshirts to make up for there lack in quality control, and quality. i threw the whole box in trash,and sold everyone of there guns. even my sons 22 pistol,and bought him a ruger 22 pistol. moral of this story is,,,be wise do your homework before putting out your hard earned cash for guns that look good,but in fact are ****. freadom arms makes a 45/70 revolver,,much better quality,,and fine craftsman ship to be sure. be careful,choose wisely.
I never seen a BFR with wrong specs and we have a bunch of them.
The 45-70 has .4592" throats and .458" groove and of course it takes RIFLE boolits. I shoot .459 out of two of them with better accuracy then I ever had from any revolver. When I do my part I can shoot under 1" at 100 yards with a pile of different boolits.
We are working with 7 of them right now including a .500 JRH and not a single one has anything but perfect specs. ALL slug out EXACT.
I suspect you were using .45 Colt boolits and way the wrong powder and primers.
Explain why we are shooting this huge variety of boolits? We also went to 525 gr BPCR boolits with good accuracy. These are 50 yard targets.
Then look at the can, the top hole has 5 shots through it with the BFR at 100 yards, got tired of walking down to set it back up. The other holes are from a rifle.
May I graciously suggest that if you can't get a BFR to shoot, you will not get anything to shoot.

[44man]

The can and did someone say Desert Eagle? Eagle test loads at 50 yards.

[Frank]

tek4260 said
My 475 feels like a wimp compared to my heavy 325gr 45 Colt loads.
What's your 475 load, man?

[44man]

My 475 feels like a wimp compared to my heavy 325gr 45 Colt loads.
I have to ask too because I shoot up to 347 gr boolits from my Vaquero without the recoil of the .475. Harsh, yes, but not the wrist twist from the bench.
The Vaquero with a 347 gr boolit at 1160 fps comes out to 78# of recoil.

[tek4260]

As of now, my 475 load is the factory 400gr Hornady load. I realized I could buy 5 boxes of the Hornady stuff for almost the same as what Midway wanted for 100 rds of brass. Wholesale on the ammo vs Midway shipped price of course. I already have my dies and some 400 gr boolits cast and ready. Also trying to decide between a LFN and a WFN from LBT. Any suggestions?

[frankenfab]

I can't remember If I ever shot any of the Hornady .475 ammo, but I shot some of the .500 S&W stuff and it was pretty tame.

I loaded up the Lee 90241 which actually weighed 385 grs. in my alloy, and got 1393 FPS average with a ES of 35.0 using 24.0 grs. WC820 (lot#47320) with a CCI 350. It's a pretty snappy load.

I've loaded 300 gr. slugs to 1300 fps. in a .45 Vaquero and did not enjoy shooting them, mainly due to the grip shape.

[dubber123]

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh83/dubber123/IMG_0011.jpg The orange dot target was shot with the Hornady factory load. It's very mild, note the velocity. The other target was shot with a 440 cast at 1,325 from the short barrel, and it's a whole 'nuther animal for sure...

[frankenfab]

That is great shooting!

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, donjose.

I have a 10" .444 BFR, and I like the long barrel, but it is ungainly.

[44man]

Yes, both Dubber and Frank are my friends. Both are super shots so never discount what they say. They are as nutty as I am when it comes to accuracy! :bigsmyl2:

[Whitworth]

donjose,
PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE YOU BUY THAT! LIKE MANY I TO JUMPTED ON THE MAGNUM RESEARCH BAND WAGON, I LOVED THE LOOKS OF THERE DESERT EAGLES, AS WELL AS THE BFR REVOLVERS. WELL LETS JUST SAY I USE TO,,,, i own 2 50ae one of each the usa version,and the isreali version, i also bought a 44 mag eagle, i bought the bfr 45/70 10 in barrel,, and bought there 22 mountain eagle pistol for my son. heres what happen,and what ive learned. what your about to put out for that bfr 45/70 my opion is DONT BUY IT! read the specs on that gun closely. when reading youll see the cylinder is sized .458 and youll also see the bore is size. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SHOOT,OR CAST ,you will not get good groups with there gun. when i got mine i paid 830.00 for it new,,then took to magnaport for custom work, another 600.00 totaling 1430.00 after the fact i had this gun for a few yrs,,2 to be exact, and no matter what factory rounds i bought and shot through it,no matter what reloading i did for it,,all groups were below substandard. as good as it looked, it was **** from the begining. i sold it on gunbroker for 1300.00 and i feel i was lucky to get that. DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR,,save a few more dollars and buy a freedom arms field grade. much better quality,and is made correctly. my eagles i bought ,,i had problems right out of the box on all eagles except the 22 mountain pistol i got for my son. its the only gun from magnum research with no issues. the 50 ae pistols both of them had feeding problems,,after a short while i called magnum research and complained,,, i shipted them back the guns after putting out 1250.00 each,,now i had to put out to ship back for them to fix,,,they had my guns for 3MONTHS!!,, WHILE THEY WERE BACK IN THE CO. HANDS BEING FIXED,,MY 44 EAGLE SPRINGS BROKE, and ramp chipted off. i called them and i gave them hell,,, now my 44 was off to them to be fixed,and only after 62 rounds were fired through it. now they have 3 out of 5 guns i bought from them. to be fixed. FOR THE COST OF THERE GUNS,, this was not exceptable,,not at all. then my bfr i tried everything i could think of to get acceptable grouping ,,with no luck!! so i sold it,,when i finally got my guns back,,magnum reasearch sent me back with the guns,a big box of hats, tee shirts,pins,sweatshirts to make up for there lack in quality control, and quality. i threw the whole box in trash,and sold everyone of there guns. even my sons 22 pistol,and bought him a ruger 22 pistol. moral of this story is,,,be wise do your homework before putting out your hard earned cash for guns that look good,but in fact are ****. freadom arms makes a 45/70 revolver,,much better quality,,and fine craftsman ship to be sure. be careful,choose wisely.

Huh?? Of course the .45/70 is a .458 -- that is what it is supposed to be. Are you using .45 Colt diameter bullets?? That would explain poor accuracy!

Freedom Arms does not make a .45/70 -- they make a .454, but not a .45/70.

I have had nothing but good things to say about BFRs (except for the dang grip frame! Make mine a Bisley!). Every one I have shot, played with, load developed for, hunted with has been an exceptional shooter.

[Frank]

Dubber, 440 grn LBT boolit? Hmmm. Looks good. [smilie=p:

[Heavy lead]

Huh?? Of course the .45/70 is a .458 -- that is what it is supposed to be. Are you using .45 Colt diameter bullets?? That would explain poor accuracy!

Freedom Arms does not make a .45/70 -- they make a .454, but not a .45/70.

I have had nothing but good things to say about BFRs (except for the dang grip frame! Make mine a Bisley!). Every one I have shot, played with, load developed for, hunted with has been an exceptional shooter.

I put a Bisley frame on my .475, amen brother. I've got some fat walnut grips on them that not only fit my hand well, but look good too. Recoil is what I consider managable, much better than my SRH .454.

[jaycocreek]

I love my BFR and it is very accurate.As far as velocities go..Garretts +P hammerhead in my 45-70 Guide Gun clocked 1833 fps while out of my BFR(7.5") it clocked 1569 fps both in 45 type degree temps.My 525 grain cast load does 1515 fps out of my Guide Gun and 1300 fps out of the BFR.

I am completely happy with RL-7 with my loads for accuracy and normally a lower pressure than the majority of powders.I am definitely in the BFR camp.A fine firearm.

Jayco

[Frank]

.475 Linebaugh, BFR, 100-yd Creedmore. This was 5 shots and I heard the can ring 5 times, so I don't get it. I should have put some weight in the can to hold it, it was windy. I pinned it to the block it was on. The middle back hole is wider so I think a 4th shot went into it. Anyway, I think I've got this hold down now.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2483

I had to post this for 44man because he likes his spray cans. [smilie=p: I saw a Sprite can laying there and just had to try Creedmore. Now the 45-70 does the same thing for me with a cast boolit. But the longer 10" barrel gives me the same POI Creedmore as shooting offhand. The .475 is 7.5" so I get more muzzle flip with Creedmore. (Theory). So I have to put the dot below the can to hit it with the 475. Correct? So maybe the 7.5" 45-70 does the same thing. With a shorter barrel you need to hold differently.

[44man]

Dubber, 440 grn LBT boolit? Hmmm. Looks good. [smilie=p:
Yup, this is what I did with Dubber's boolit. Just one test at 50 but I don't remember what the right shot was from but I think it was the first from a clean barrel.

[ole 5 hole group]

Last Monday I went out and fired just shy of 200 rounds and shoot some pretty big groups in the process. Here’s a picture of 3 groups from 50 yards rested, open sights –two are 45 Colt (FA97)while the far right is a 500 Smith. (these are my best groups, I only had a few groups like these, as I don’t have a problem throwing one or two out of a 5 shot group- sometimes I can call them and other times I can’t.) I shot a couple groups at 100 yards off-hand supported that you would have trouble covering with a bushel basket, make it 2 bushel baskets. I’ve got a real nice custom (read-very expensive) built 475 Linebaugh that I’ve been working with since this spring and I still haven’t found a load that I’m happy with and I know I’ve spent somewhere in the area of $40.00 in powder shooting that puppy. What load you using Frank?

[jackhandle]

have a BFR in .475, took apart and measured everything, very tight!! not quite as tight as F.A. but .... currently fitting up Bisley grip frame...absolutely love these BFR's and would not turn down a deal on a .45/70. I'd probably go with the 71/2" barrel for easier carry(?) either way that 45/70 cylinder is BIG!!! Enjoy:Fire:http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/smilies/fire.gif

[44man]

Last Monday I went out and fired just shy of 200 rounds and shoot some pretty big groups in the process. Here’s a picture of 3 groups from 50 yards rested, open sights –two are 45 Colt (FA97)while the far right is a 500 Smith. (these are my best groups, I only had a few groups like these, as I don’t have a problem throwing one or two out of a 5 shot group- sometimes I can call them and other times I can’t.) I shot a couple groups at 100 yards off-hand supported that you would have trouble covering with a bushel basket, make it 2 bushel baskets. I’ve got a real nice custom (read-very expensive) built 475 Linebaugh that I’ve been working with since this spring and I still haven’t found a load that I’m happy with and I know I’ve spent somewhere in the area of $40.00 in powder shooting that puppy. What load you using Frank?
I might be able to help a little. Here are the five boolits I shoot from the .475. Left is my 420 gr, then my 430 gr, the Lee, Babore's boolit and the last is one I am not happy with so far.
The 400 gr boolits all get 26.5 gr of 296. The 420's get 26 gr and the .430's get 25.5. All use a Fed 155 primer.
Now the BFR has a 1 in 15" twist so if your custom has a 1 in 18" you might want to see if a little more powder will bring in accuracy but go slow because some of my loads are near top.
A little lighter boolit might be better, the Freedom loves a 350 gr boolit up to close to 400. They will shoot a 420 OK if they fit but need a half gr more powder then I use.
DO NOT USE RIFLE PRIMERS.

[44man]

Darn, lost picture again!

[ole 5 hole group]

This 475 Linebaugh is on a Ruger Blackhawk frame - the barrel is 1:18. I use WLP primers and they seem to be OK with this caliber. I purchased it from a guy who had it built and hardly shot it but I still paid a lot (still taking guff from the war department and I even understated the price by a lot!) and can't get it to group under 1.5 inches at 50 yards rested. Can’t get it to group consistently at 1.5” either, so it’s probably me and not the gun/load. I think I’ll change out the Bowen rough country sight to their target sight – probably a waste of more good money but I would like to find me a good consistent load that will group at or under an inch at 50 yards with open sights – may just be a pipe dream at this time in my life but I’ll work at it for another couple of months and then just accept whatever it is – grandkids will have to shoot the bug hole groups someday with young eyes, as I’m definitely losing my touch with open sights. I don’t have any 296 left but I’ve got a ton of H110 & several pounds of N110 left and will push a little harder and see what gives – most likely I’ll just take another beating.

I'll also try lighter boolits, as I've only worked with 400 & 425 grain.

[dubber123]

When in doubt, step on the gas.. My F/A has a slower twist, and if I shoot my 440's, I find the best accuracy at full throttle. The 400 gr. LEE shoots great at low speeds, it will shoot under 1.5" off my knees at 50 yds. with 5.0 grains of Trailboss. That load clocks in the 500 fps. range, so I don't see stability as an issue, with boolits around 400 grs.

Groups with my 440's get ugly quickly when started at 800 fps. though, so the slow twist does affect a very long, heavy slug under the right circumstances. Good luck.

[MGySgt]

I have 4 different boolits for my BFR .475 Linbaugh - they all shoot better than I can hold.
Lee 400, Group by 400 Keith Style, LBT 400 WFN, Bullshops 400 (GC and PB).

I have only used 2400 and depending on the boolit from 19 - 21 grains.
Recoil doesn't feel as bad as full 44 mags from my 4 5/8 SBH - but I do pay later with the BFR, my shoulder and elbow ache from it.

My BFR isn't for sale!