Improved Sprue Plates... Any Interest?

[JIMinPHX]

I've been fooling around with some different modifications to sprue plates lately. I've been finding that larger sprue wells & venting on the underside can improve fill out on molds that were once problematic. Has anybody else played around like this on their sprue plates before?

[crabo]

I made a new one for a RCBS 250k that was larger and thicker. I used a hacksaw and a die grinder. It worked so well I bought a 90 degree carbide countersink to make a new pretty one. The one I made worked so well, I never bothered with making a new one.

I use the countersink all the time to open up the holes on a lot of my sprueplates, especially on the larger, heavier boolits.

[JIMinPHX]

I went to a thicker material for the sprue plates that I made too. That's how I got the bigger sprue wells. I found that 3/8" was too thick, but 1/4" seemed about right.

[mrbill2]

I made mine about .340 thick and used a 60 degree counter sink. I made some for double and single cavity and they work real well.

[oldtoolsniper]

Top punches, PID's, lube and now I have to make sprue plate modifications too! More tools!

[jmsj]

JiminPhx,
I made one for a Lee 6 cavity Tl358-158-swc mold. The hole nearest the handles had become ovaled out and wasn't cutting the base of the bullet very well.
I used a piece of 1018, 1/4" thick, worked better than the factory piece ever did.

[ANeat]

I make mine with a big trough .

This is a 9 cavity core mold
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h165/aneat/Swage/DSC01213.jpg

[Marvin S]

The last mold I made has a sprue plate 1/4" made from some factory surface finished 4130 plate. It is serving me well, and don't think it will ever warp. Those are some nice ones Jim.

On my swan shot mold I done as ANeat did on his and made a trough.

[ktw]

Somebody made up a batch of thick sprue plates that looked a lot like the ones in JIMinPHX's pics and sold the extras here a year or two ago. I forget who it was. I bought a pair and really like them.

Red River Rick (KAL Tool & Die (http://kal.castpics.net/Molds3.html)) sells high quality thick after market sprue plates for Lyman and RCBS molds.

The mold rebuild kits you can get from Lyman come with thicker plates that you'll find on many of the older lyman molds.

I have replaced the sprue plates on most all of my one and two cavity Lyman and RCBS molds with plates from one of the above sources. I have a big stack of extra thins ones if someone is looking for some. ;-)

-ktw

[JIMinPHX]

Red River Rick (KAL Tool & Die (http://kal.castpics.net/Molds3.html)) sells high quality thick after market sprue plates for Lyman and RCBS molds.


Wow, I didn't know he was doing that. Those look really nice & the price is darn reasonable.

[JIMinPHX]

ANeat, how is that trough working out for you? I had considered doing something like that, but I wasn't sure if it would help or hurt.

[JIMinPHX]

Top punches, PID's, lube and now I have to make sprue plate modifications too! More tools!

Top punches...geeze, that seems like forever ago you were fooling with those. How did those end up working out for you?

[RobS]

Well Jim you are on the path that many mold makers are on. Dan at Mountain Molds uses a very large and thick sprue plate with huge sprue wells vs production molds. Veral at LBT actually has vent lines cut on the top of his blocks to help with base fillout. Bruce at BRP also has a textured top to his mold blocks as well. For aluminum molds I would go with the vent lines or texturing being on the top of the aluminum block as having this done to the steel sprue plate I assume would be much like a cheese grader on the top of the aluminum block.

[leadman]

I had a H&G mold with the trough, was a 4 banger in 44 cal. The trough was good once the sprue plate was warmed up. Thought about doing it to a Lee 6 banger but thought it might weaken it too much.

The sprue plate on an old Saeco 2 cavity 38 caliber mold is the best I have used. It swings from the middle of the side on one of the handle screws, has small holes with sharp edges. Never cuts a jagged sprue of pulls metal out of the base. Just have to dip the handle in the molten lead to heat it so the lead will go thru the small holes.

[crabo]

I'd like to see a traditional sprue plate for the Lee 6 cavity that I can whack with my stick. I also like the troughs in my sprue plates.

[AbitNutz]

I'd like to see a traditional sprue plate for the Lee 6 cavity that I can whack with my stick. I also like the troughs in my sprue plates.

Absolutely! I would buy that in a heart beat for my Lee 6 cavity molds....

[Greg5278]

I ground a relief on the bottom of the sprue plate to let air out. The relief was .0015" deep, and about .200" wide. I does not leave a mark on the bullet base, and is not apparent unless you look at the bottom of the plate. It does not clog or get filled up with junk. I use the same type of venting on my molds.
Greg 5278

[JIMinPHX]

Absolutely! I would buy that in a heart beat for my Lee 6 cavity molds....

Would you guys want that to be made out of steel or aluminum?

[HORNET]

Jim, you probably need to work them out of steel to avoid problems with galling the mold surface. It would also be easier for you to blue the steel ones rather than anodizing aluminum ones. You might even want to think about offering different sprue hole opening sizes. The ones that I've made for my self I've usually started with small holes (.096") and opened up if needed, but that's mostly on .30 cal or smaller.

[Doby45]

Steel for sure.. I have a 6 banger that I would love a trough in like a H&G sprue plate..

[Marvin S]

Just a thought but when replacing a thin light weight factory one with a heavy duty steel one I would think the small light weight pivot screw would need upgraded also.

[AbitNutz]

Would you guys want that to be made out of steel or aluminum?

I would think steel....but I just want better.

[crabo]

Steel for sure.. I have a 6 banger that I would love a trough in like a H&G sprue plate..

That gets my vote as well

[geargnasher]

Yes. Steel, Jim, steel.

I did what Crabo did, purchased a 45* TiN coated carbide countersink and fix all my El Cheapo Lee two-banger plates. I think those moulds could be greatly improved with a thicker (1/4" would be plenty) sprue plate.

Opinions on best well angle?

Gear

[ANeat]

ANeat, how is that trough working out for you? I had considered doing something like that, but I wasn't sure if it would help or hurt.

Jim it works great, like others mentioned its like other molds (H&G) from the past. Ballisti-Cast still makes theirs like that. Others may also??

It would be tough to pull off with a thin plate but on thicker plates its great.

Helps keep the lead from running/overflowing everywhere. You can just start the lead flowing and move from cavity to cavity without meking a mess

[AbitNutz]

Argh! I need one for my Lee 6 cavity molds!!!

[JIMinPHX]

I should have material here tomorrow to make one. I'll post pictures when it's done.

[crabo]

I should have material here tomorrow to make one. I'll post pictures when it's done.

I was hoping this would happen.....

[Doby45]

Woooooooooohooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Doc Highwall]

Gussy is the one that made up thick sprue plates with longer handles to make it easier to cut the sprue, I bought several my self and they work great.

[AbitNutz]

I should have material here tomorrow to make one. I'll post pictures when it's done.

Oh dude....that would be terrific....I need like 3 of them. If they work anything like your hollow pointing jig, we're gold.

[JIMinPHX]

I need like 3 of them.

It looks like I might need to get more material on Monday:coffeecom

[AbitNutz]

It looks like I might need to get more material on Monday:coffeecom

I love you man! (Please recall the beer commercial when reading this)

[JIMinPHX]

OK,
who want's to be the first victim? ...er, a, I mean who want's to be the guinea pig & try out the first one?

[Tazman1602]

The sprue plates I have on my BRP and NOE molds are FAR superior to any other (Lyman, RCBS, Lee, etc) that I have. Just easier to work with.

Venting the mold -- or the sprue plate or top of mold on a problematic mold has cured ALL of my issues with picky molds. I think Linstrum turned me on to that a while back. Never ruined ANY of my expensive steel molds ---- and I've never NEEDED to revent any of my aluminum BRP or NOE molds because they are already vented right with the "Knurled"???? type of venting instead of just the lines that other molds have..

Nice looking plates though Jim, I'd buy some if I didn't know how to fix mine.................

Art

Art

[AbitNutz]

OK,
who want's to be the first victim? ...er, a, I mean who want's to be the guinea pig & try out the first one?

Me! What do I have to do??

[crabo]

If I was nit pickin', I'd extend the trough another 1/4 inch on each end.

What is the wheel for? Hand opening? I would like something I can hit with a mallet. I've got a good rhythm going using the mallet. I use a hickory sledge handle to open the bottom pour pot, then cool it on a wet rag, whack the sprue, open, tap the hinge bolt if needed and keep on without having to pick up or set anything down.

[JIMinPHX]

AbitNutz called for it first, so the prototype will go to him for evaluation. There will be no charge for it, but I will ask him to please post his results after he tries it.

The "wheel" is there because after I made the plate, I tried it on a mold & found that the steel didn't extend beyond the handles, so there was no good place to hit it. The round piece of aluminum was a quick way of attaching something that would stick out far enough to be hit without damaging the mold handles. Future versions will be made out of steel that is 1/2" wider & will not need the wheel.

There is 1 other error on the sprue plate that I am aware of. The notch, near the center of it, where the hold down bolt grabs it, is a little too deep. I had a bad number on my drawing when I made it. That will be fixed on the next one too. It will work the way it is, but it just doesn't look quite right (because it isn't)

Depending on the feedback I get, I may extend the trough. The door is still open on that one.

This thing is just a first prototype. I'm expecting to need to make a few changes.

[GLL]

Jim:

Looks VERY nice !

I think extending the trough a bit may be a good idea as well !

Put me on the "sign-up list" for three to experiment with !

Jerry

[crabo]

My reasoning on extending the trough is because:

1. It gives each end cavity, two places to draw from.

2. H&G does it that way. (maybe that should be the first reason.)

Do you have an idea on cost yet? I really like the way it is developing.

[Doby45]

I wants one too Jim!!!!

[AbitNutz]

I think I'll go buy some lottery tickets...I never win anything.

[JIMinPHX]

Well, the prototype went in the mail yesterday. With a little luck, AbitNutz should have it tomorrow. Once he tries it & posts his comments, I'll make up a Beta version & see what everyone thinks of it. I should be able to have the first batch made up a day or two after that, if my day job doesn't get busy all of a sudden.

[crabo]

Have you figured out a price yet?

[JIMinPHX]

When we come up with the final version, I'll figure out a price.

[AbitNutz]

Just got the spru plate. I'll cast a batch up tomorrow and let you all know how things work out.

[mold maker]

OMG I've got over 20 6 cav Lee molds. Swapping them wont work so that means 1 for each. Arrrrrrrrgh bankruptcy ahead.

[JIMinPHX]

OMG I've got over 20 6 cav Lee molds. Swapping them wont work so that means 1 for each. Arrrrrrrrgh bankruptcy ahead.

Geeze,
You could set up a group buy all by yourself.:kidding:


Actually, for people in your situation, I could probably make up a quick change thumb screw, so that you would be able to swap out sprue plates quickly & easily. Let me know if you would like me to dig into that possibility a little deeper.

[AbitNutz]

1st report on the new spru plate.

When I first got it I was sure it was going to make the mold weigh a ton. It doesn't. It weighs more but is unnoticeable.

There's a small fitment issue. The close slot isn't quite wide enough on this particular mold and it doesn't let the spru plate close completely. It's pretty close and I think a bit of grinding or more likely, a different mold, it will line up perfectly. Either way it's not stopping me from moving forward.

The third pry handle fit perfectly and so did the pivot bolt.


This first mold will be a pure lead black powder bullet. I'm going to try different methods of filling it. This mold really liked to have the pour spout right on the spru plate which is a pain. I'm hoping I can just fill the trough and life will be good.

I'm waiting for the pot to melt so more later.

I can tell you all one thing immediately. I'm even less satisfied with the Lee spru plate now that I have a chance to look at it off the mold. I'm pretty well convinced that spru plates should be steel.

[JIMinPHX]

Don't throw that aluminum sprue plate away just yet. If you don't want it anymore, you can send it my way. I'd love to have an extra floating around that I can use to experiment with & try a few modifications on.

[BCall]

If you get these in to production, whats the chance of getting one with smaller sprue holes? I just got a 6 cavity Ranch Dog 22 mold and the sprue holes are kinda big. Would like to have one with smaller holes if possible. Thanks, Billy

[JIMinPHX]

Right now, I'm using #6-32 screws through the sprue holes to fixture the part when I take the big milling cut out of the bottom edge. If I go to smaller holes, I'll have to make that cut in the sprue plate another way that is going to take a little longer. I should still be able to do it. It's just going to cost a little extra. It's not as easy as just throwing a smaller bit in the chuck when I drill them.

Alternately, If you are not looking to hit it with a hammer, I can make a steel sprue plate with a trough that just uses the original cam handle system. That should be no problem at all.

Let me think about it for a little while & see if I can come up with a better way to do it.

How small did you want those holes?

[JIMinPHX]

I'm waiting for the pot to melt so more later.


?????? How did it work out? Did you run into trouble?

[Wayne Smith]

Geeze,

Actually, for people in your situation, I could probably make up a quick change thumb screw, so that you would be able to swap out sprue plates quickly & easily. Let me know if you would like me to dig into that possibility a little deeper.

I've only got five, but that sounds like a good idea.

[BCall]

Right now, I'm using #6-32 screws through the sprue holes to fixture the part when I take the big milling cut out of the bottom edge. If I go to smaller holes, I'll have to make that cut in the sprue plate another way that is going to take a little longer. I should still be able to do it. It's just going to cost a little extra. It's not as easy as just throwing a smaller bit in the chuck when I drill them.

Alternately, If you are not looking to hit it with a hammer, I can make a steel sprue plate with a trough that just uses the original cam handle system. That should be no problem at all.

Let me think about it for a little while & see if I can come up with a better way to do it.

How small did you want those holes?

The holes in the current sprue plate are about .14-.15, I would like to have something roughly .10 in size. Thanks! Billy

[JIMinPHX]

Well,
I was hoping to get a little more feedback than I did, but I don't want to let this sit too long, so I decided to come up with version 2 based on the information that I have.

I fixed the slot dimension & made it .01" wider, for better clearance. I opened up the handle pivot hole from .250" to .257". there shouldn't be any more clearance problems there. I made the hitting edge 1/2" wider, which looks to me like it should be enough. I made the trough 1/8" wider on each end. I was concerned about loosing structural support if I went too far wit it. I will do a longer trough if someone insists that they want it, but I don't want to do that as a standard practice. I also made up a quick change screw. I put a brass insert on the screw for durability & reduced chance of galling. If the head of the screw is too high, I can make a lower version. In all honesty, it may be better to just stay with the original screw.

I figured out another way that I can get hold of these things in the mill, so I should be able to do the .10" diameter sprue holes for the same price as the standard size. I haven't made the new fixture to do that yet, but I don't expect problems.

The price is going to be $25 for the sprue plate & $10 for the screw. Prices do not include shipping.

[BCall]

If you get one done with .10 holes in it, let me know- I'll send the money when ever you wnat it. Thanks! Billy

[AbitNutz]

sorry...we ran in to a medical issue.

The spu plate work fine. It cleaves cleanly and since it is heavier, has a lot more inertia so it feels easier to bang open. It doesn't seem to matter how I fill it. If I run it down the trough or try and fill each individual cavity. I think the area where you whack it could be smaller. That is really large. I see the that you've solved the Lee screw problem. That screw may be a good idea on the other bolt as well.

Sorry for the delay but I'll be ordering a couple. I'll need one that I can move from mold to mold and one that stays with a particular favorite. Again, two of the locking screws would be very nice.

[thx997303]

For the locking screw, I would guess that using that could be hard on the mold blocks.

If only you could install a steel sleeve and thread that. Protect the block and all.

Of course, I own no 6 cavity molds, so it may already have something like that. I don't know.

[crabo]

Do you do paypal?

[JIMinPHX]

sorry...we ran in to a medical issue.

Is everything OK now?

[JIMinPHX]

Do you do paypal?

Sorry,
but no, I don't.

[JIMinPHX]

For the locking screw, I would guess that using that could be hard on the mold blocks.

If only you could install a steel sleeve and thread that. Protect the block and all.

Of course, I own no 6 cavity molds, so it may already have something like that. I don't know.

A steel sleeve would be a good idea in my opinion too. It would be fairly easy to do if they hadn't put the locating pin right there, but they did.

If someone did bust out the area where the pivot screw goes, I could probably make a repair & bolt in a block of steel in the current open slot area, then use a longer screw to reach it. It seems like a lot of work to go through for a preventative measure though.

I've had my sprue plate off & on about 5 or 6 times now. Each time I turn that screw, it feels a little worse. I don't know what alloy of aluminum those molds are made out of, but it's on the soft side. The more I look at it, the more that I think it is a bad idea to use a quick change bolt, or even to mess with the pivot bolt at all unless you need to.

[crabo]

I think you are right about the quick change bolt. I bought a MiHec aluminum 68 and tried to take the sprue plate off the first time I used it. The bolt twisted off. I couldn't get it out. MiHec did not offer to do anything about it. He just asked me if I needed another bolt. There was also another person that had the same problem.

I now need to drill it out and was thinking about an EZ Lock type of steel insert. Kinda pisses me off to have a good mold and I can't use it until I spend time and money on it. I have at least 5 of his molds.

[JIMinPHX]

In my opinion, the thread inserts are far superior to heli-coils when it comes to making repairs. The best ones that I have seen have stakes that you drive in with a hammer to keep the insert from backing out. The ones with the lock-tight patches don't hold up in high temperature environments.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#threaded-inserts/=85jcex

[crabo]

Good point about the heat. I didn't think about that. I like the ones with the stakes.

[HORNET]

What's wrong with putting a steel stud in the blocks and using a nut? Make a sleeve out of seamless steel tubing to get the correct tension with the nut down tight (taller than sprue plate thickness). Mix it up with flat & spring washers to change tension. That would avoid wear on the blocks, including the threads for the pivot screw.

[Doby45]

You could even use a wing nut or your knurled little knob there. But have the "post" stationary.

[JIMinPHX]

A stud that goes all the way into the bottom half of the block...I like it.

[Doby45]

The only kicker with that would be that you were trying to make these as a "simple replacement" to the factory sprue plate. Once you go to drilling and stamping a post in the mold it is no longer "simple replacement" :)

[JIMinPHX]

True. I think that changing once from the original sprue plate to a new one is probably OK once. Repeated removal of the pivot screw looks like trouble though.

I don't see any real reason to go back to the original sprue plate once you get this one on there.

[BoolitSchuuter]

steel!!!!!!

[crabo]

Any progress?

[JIMinPHX]

Yes, there has been progress. I have roughed out 6 or 8 of them. I've finished 3 or 4. I shipped 2 to BCall.

As soon as BCall's shoulder heals up a little better, He says that he's going to post a review.

My day job got busy again, so It's going to be about a week before I have time to get back to this again.

[crabo]

My day job got busy again, so It's going to be about a week before I have time to get back to this again.

I understand that problem....

[JIMinPHX]

I understand that problem....

As problems go...it's a good one to have.

[happy7]

Jim,

What I would like to see is a nice, thick, FLAT sprue plate for the four cavity lyman molds. RRR does not do the four cavities, or I would just buy his.

[JIMinPHX]

I'll have to find a 4 cavity Lyman mold to see if I can measure up the sprue plate. When I get that done, I'll post here to say if I can do it or not. I should be able to. It will be next week before I can get started looking into that. My day job has me tied up right now.

Regards,
Jim

[Catshooter]

Nice work Jim.

From what I can tell, it looks to me that when Lee installs their sprue cutter pivot bolt, they use the bolt itself to tap the hole.

The aluminum is soft, but every single time I have removed one of those bolts they bring small thin rings/coils of aluminum with them. Then when they are re-installed the bolt just never seems to want to stay tight again.

My solution was to drill & tap a 10 x 32 hole and use a short set screw like the Lyman design.

I haven't tried it but I don't think that a Loctite type product would work to keep the bolt tight due to the heat as Jim points out.

However, one could try a thick coating of Lee's Liquid boolit lube. That might stay and harden.


Cat

[Bloodman14]

What I would like to see is a small dam around the sprue holes so that I don't get 'runoff' of alloy into my quench bucket. As far as using steel v. aluminum, go steel. I Lee-mended my 6-banger to use a setscrew to keep the pivot bolt in place, because of the problem that Catshooter describes.

[Cap'n Morgan]

What I would like to see is a small dam around the sprue holes so that I don't get 'runoff' of alloy into my quench bucket.

Maybe something like this:

http://www.pictureshack.us/images/6962IMG_1143.JPG (http://www.pictureshack.us/)

http://www.pictureshack.us/images/5308IMG_1146.JPG (http://www.pictureshack.us/)

I was tired of constantly spilling molten lead all over the mold when bottom pouring, and at the same time wondering if a large sprue puddle (the casting term is "dead-head") would eliminate shrinking voids in the bullet base and improve filling.

The system works great; There's plenty of warning time between the filling of the cavity and the sprue reservoir running over (the dead-head weighs about 400 grain) There's absolutely no splatter - even if the stream of lead is off center. The combined weight of the sprue plate and the dead-head prevents the sprue plate from lifting due to the pressure - which sometimes can be a problem with a large bullet/small sprue plate like this one-cavity mold.

The best part of it is that it has turned a somewhat stressing task into a zen-like experience ;-) You watch the silver flow raising at a steadily pace in the sprue plate until you cut the flow, then you watch the lead solidifying for five - maybe ten seconds before cutting the sprue and dropping a flawless boolit [smilie=1:

[Doby45]

Dats nice right there, real nice. Looks like a TIG weld and if I had a single cavity rifle boolit I would want the exact same thing.

[Bloodman14]

Cap'n, that's exactly what I'm talking about! Jim, can you make that happen? I will need a few made up.

[JIMinPHX]

Either the Captain has a real steady hand with the tig torch, or else he has a genuine tubing welder. That is a beautiful bead if that's what it is. Alternately, he may have machined that.

I don't have a tubing welder & my tig is in storage back east, so I can't weld anything that pretty.

Let me think about it a little though & see what I can come up with.

[Cap'n Morgan]

You're right, Jim, I machined the sprue plate from a bar of steel - easy to do when you have access to a CNC mill - but welding a tube to a sprue plate would not be that difficult. Just make sure the inside of the tube is tapered to prevent the dead-head from sticking.

[Doby45]

That does make sense cause I was thinkin that was one gorgeous TIG weld, which could be possible but tedious. The machining of it is even more uber cool.

[JIMinPHX]

Just make sure the inside of the tube is tapered to prevent the dead-head from sticking.

I found that out when I machined deep sprue holes in my aluminum plates for Lyman molds. Even a short straight section would cause the sprue to get stuck.

[JIMinPHX]

That does make sense cause I was thinkin that was one gorgeous TIG weld, which could be possible but tedious.

I did some consulting work at a jewelry manufacturing plant about 12 or 14 years ago. They were making large quantities of ear rings out of hollow gold tube. They were rolling & welding the tube on site with progressive forming dies & a continuous process tig welder. We were able to get the welds so good that you could not see them. I've seen an automatic tubing welder leave a bead nearly that good too.

[JIMinPHX]

Cap'n, that's exactly what I'm talking about! Jim, can you make that happen? I will need a few made up.

What sprue plate did you want me to try that tall collar trick on? 6-hole Lee?

[a.squibload]

Maybe something like this:...

Dam, that's good.:smile:

I'm thinking that dead-head could be useful if you make it fit a 12ga wad!
Maybe a ring inside the collar like in a measuring cup, for consistent size.

Would there be a problem with warping the plate if the collar was to be welded on?

[JIMinPHX]

I'm thinking that dead-head could be useful if you make it fit a 12ga wad!


That's not a bad idea. I wonder what you would do for load data though.

[excess650]

I'm game for one or more of the Lee 6 cavity type plates in steel and with conventional sprue holes vs the trough. My smallest are 30cal, so whatever is standard will work for me. I would prefer to turn the mold around so that it operates like a conventionally worked sprue plate vs Lee's cam operated design.

I'm sure these would be beneficial for pistol bullets, but I have several rifle molds that I'm not getting along with, and I'm sure a replacement sprue cutter of conventional design will solve the problem.

[excess650]

That's not a bad idea. I wonder what you would do for load data though.

12ga work at relatively low pressure, and Lyman's shotshell handbook had a fair amount of slug data in it. Their's was for slugs in wads in addition to Foster type slugs, but I interpolated their data and loaded full diameter slugs in my 870. I think that NEI "bullet" weighs 580gr, and casts .735". I used Blue Dot because it seemed to be the powder to use for 2-3/4" mag loads. I used nitro cards under the bullets to attain the correct internal volume, and then roll crimped. Recoil was pretty brutal, but no issues with pressure unlike one of the factory loads that I had tried.

Using those "deadheads" in wads shouldn't be any different that undersize bullets in sabots. It may require trying various wads for height, and possibly trimming petals and adding nitro cards to build the column, but shouldn't be problematic with slow powders.

[Bloodman14]

Jim, if that could be done on a Lee 6-shooter using a steel sprue plate, THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!! Also the Lee single and double cavities. I would gladly send you my Lee 6 sprue plate for a pattern if you need one, but be aware it has been modified/improved. I also wouldn't worry about the trough; what about a piece of strap that is formed to fit around all the holes at once, thereby replacing the trough with an ingot-looking sprue? I just can't see welding individual tubes to make 'dead heads' (wasn't that the name of a fan group?).:kidding:

[leadman]

My recent 6 hole Lee molds have a steel insert in the mold for the pivot screw.

Jim, I have some Lyman 4 cavity molds if you need to look at one.

[JIMinPHX]

Jim, I have some Lyman 4 cavity molds if you need to look at one.

That's good to know Mark, & thanks for the offer. I should be back in town tomorrow. Hopefully, the jet lag will wear off enough by Monday or Tuesday to let me get a few things knocked off.

[JIMinPHX]

Is this what everybody's 4-cav sprue plate looks like? Or are there other versions?

[Bloodman14]

Lee 6-cavs use a cam-type plate; their 1 and 2 cavs use a plate similar to your drawing. NOE uses a similar plate, too.

[excess650]

Is this what everybody's 4-cav sprue plate looks like? Or are there other versions?

That's what a Lyman looks like, and IMO, the 6 cavity Lee should look similar. With a conventional sprue plate the mold could be turned 180* in the handles to operate like a normal mold.

[JIMinPHX]

I'm looking for confirmation that all the Lyman 4-cav sprue plates look like the drawing in post #97. I've got the 6-cav Lee plates figured out. I only managed to get my hands on one 4-cav sprue plate to measure so far & have been coming across some rumors that there may be variations in the dimensions on 4-cav plates depending on how old the mold is. I'm trying to find out if that is the case or not.

Thanks,
Jim

[happy7]

Jim,

I will do some measureing of my plates. I have a pretty busy day today, but hopefully can do it in the next couple days.

[GLL]

Just for the record here is the Ballisti-Cast/H&G style 4-cavity!
These are great casting moulds and the very heavy spru plate swings freely !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/143A68122019505/orig.jpg

[JIMinPHX]

That Ballisti-Cast/H&G 4-cav plate looks like it had the trough cut with a milling cutter, rather than with a ball mill. It was probably done on a horizontal machine.

Thanks for posting. That was educational.

[happy7]

Jim, I have 23 of the Lyman 4 cav molds. There are a couple that are only a couple years old. Most are a good bit older. All but two are Lyman, with the other two being Ideal. The Ideals are right on the norm. The width of the molds ranges in size from 1.398-1.409, whith over half being about 1.403 +- .001. The sprue plates themselves are narrower. Most are about 1.373, but some as narrow as 1.350 and some as wide as 1.389. I think myself I would prefer the sprue plate the same width as the mold. Most of the rest of your dimensions look pretty close except the one you labeled 1.483. It should be about 1.380.

Because of the nutcracker hanldes in common use, the bend in the sprue plate kind of helpful. I don't know if you were planning to do that or even have the equipment to.

[JIMinPHX]

Happy7, thanks for all the good feedback. I'll assume that the bad dimension you were talking about was the start point for the clearance slot. The 2.483" was a maximum dimension that I calculated based on the swing of the plate & the diameter of the stop pin. I should have labeled it as "max", but I missed that detail when I drew it up quickly. 2.38" sounds like a good rule of thumb dimension for that one.

The sprue plate on the one that I measured was a little narrower than the blocks. I thought that it just looked wrong, so I drew it up as the same width as the blocks. Those 4-cav blocks look to actually be symmetrical in about every way possible. It's a nice set up in my opinion.

I'm not so fond of the nut cracker handles yet though. I may have to give those some thought. Or they may just grow on me. You never know.

[scb]

Here's one I wish someone made.

http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr236/scb2008/sprueplate.jpg

[Doby45]

DANG, that single cav is N.I.C.E!!!! I would like a sprue plate like that on a newer single cav rifle mold..

[Catshooter]

scb,

What the hell is that!?! Leaving us hangning with no data is child abuse you know.


Cat

[scb]

I believe it's a mould from a "best quality" set of dueling pistols. What interested me was the plate shears the sprue just by opening the mould.

[JIMinPHX]

That's a presentation grade mold that goes with a gun of similar detailing. Back in the days before standardized barrel dimensions, it was common for a mold to be included with a rifle. Of course, the level of detail shown above was not common. That must have been owned by a member of royalty.

[Doby45]

Jim can you make a sprue cutter like that? I am tellin ya, THAT would be cool..

[JIMinPHX]

Jim can you make a sprue cutter like that? I am tellin ya, THAT would be cool..

Not for $25 I can't!

[Doby45]

I was thinkin.... $15 Dangnabit.... ;)

[JIMinPHX]

I was thinkin.... $15 Dangnabit.... ;)

You must be related to my old boss.;-)

[JIMinPHX]

I'm game for one or more of the Lee 6 cavity type plates in steel and with conventional sprue holes vs the trough. My smallest are 30cal, so whatever is standard will work for me. I would prefer to turn the mold around so that it operates like a conventionally worked sprue plate vs Lee's cam operated design.

I'm sure these would be beneficial for pistol bullets, but I have several rifle molds that I'm not getting along with, and I'm sure a replacement sprue cutter of conventional design will solve the problem.

Is something like this what you had in mind???

[JIMinPHX]

This is what I have so far for a 4-cav sprue plate. This one is 1/4" thick, which might cause a few issues. You might need some longer screws to hold it on. Other than that, it should be OK. This one is 1.5" wide. I can cut it down to 1.4 if someone really wants me to, but I don't see a functional advantage to it & it adds an operation that I would need to charge for.

I don't have an oxy-acetylene torch here, so I'm a bit shy about trying to bend it. I'm willing to throw it in a vice & hit it with a hammer if somebody wants to pay for it regardless of how it comes out, but I'd rather not. I'd feel more comfortable just making one with a longer handle to give better access to a place to hit it.

[JIMinPHX]

I also have a few more of the trough type 6-cav plates finished & semi-finished. If someone wants one, please drop me a PM.

Thanks,
Jim

[Tmaloy]

Wow I plan to PM you for one of those with the trough and extension.

[buck1]

pm sent.

[Doby45]

PM also sent..

[crabo]

I just read the review that BCAll wrote, and what are the size holes? I often take my countersink and open up the holes for the 44-45 boolits. It helps the fillout a lot.

It almost seems like you would need about 3 different hole sizes to cover the different calibers from 22- 30,35- 45

Also, as I look at these I suspect that you can use the plate to hammer on, instead of using the hand cutter, since that was a big part of the earlier discussion.

[JIMinPHX]

Just let me know what size holes you want. bigger is easier.

[Shiloh]

I would like some thicker sprue plates.

Shiloh

[JIMinPHX]

I would like some thicker sprue plates.

Shiloh

Which varieties?

[excess650]

I ordered a 6 cavity, conventional sprue plate as pictured in post #115. Jim mailed it Saturday, and I received it today, Monday.[smilie=w: After inspecting it and a quick wash, it went on a Lee 6 cavity group buy 311041 that I had received in trade. My frst casting session with it, and my Ranch Dog 311-165 both proved more frustrating than anything with the original sprue cutters. I had hoped for production, but couldn't get the sharp, untorn bases I was looking for.

Jim's sprue plate replaces the original, but the mold it turned 180* in the handles so that it operates like a conventional mold rather than with the cam. I preheated the mold by putting it on top of the pot while it came up to temperature. I made (3) casts into the sprue box and then began dropping good bullets into the water bucket. Instead of an occasional good base, they were all good[smilie=w: unless the operator did something wrong.:confused:

The downside is that this sprue plate is heavy. A little creative trimming on a bandsaw will rectify that issue. I will be using this plate on ALL of my Lee 6 cavity molds until I order more. This is a HIGHLY RECOMMENDED modification.

Thanks Jim!