With All This Talk

[44MAG#1]

With all this talk about cast bullet hardness, sizing diameter, meplat shape, plain bases or gascheck, braring surface and a host of other things I wonder what someone like John Linebaugh or Dustin Linebaughs ideas are on all that?
Is anyone friends enough with either one of them enough to know?

We've heard from the resident experts on it but wonder what these two or maybe Ross Seyfried thinks on the subject.

I would be curious to know if someone is close enough to know.

[Hickory]

I am sure that the Linebaughs know quite a bit about all of the above,
but the good people here can answer any and all honest questions.
I've been casting and loading for almost 40 years, and I learn something new here all the time.
You can ask Ross Seyfried your questions via Shooting Times e-mail.

[44MAG#1]

I am sure that the Linebaughs know quite a bit about all of the above,
but the good people here can answer any and all honest questions.
I've been casting and loading for almost 40 years, and I learn something new here all the time.
You can ask Ross Seyfried your questions via Shooting Times e-mail.

I said: "We've heard from the resident experts on it but wonder what these two or maybe Ross Seyfried thinks on the subject."

I know we have HEARD the local RESIDENT experts. Now wonder what the guys I named think as opposed either for or against what has been said by the RESIDENT experts. Does it really concern them? Do they really care as long as a load performs even though it may not be the most extremely accurate load they can get?
Does it really matter? Can they shoot well enough on the average to be able to tell the difference?
Does any one on here actually know one of these gentlemen well enough to know or not?

[gray wolf]

Hey I wouldn't say anything bad or about anyone -- even if I had a mouth full.

BUT
I am not sure how to read your post ( OP )

Do they really care as long as a load performs even though it may not be the most extremely accurate load they can get?
Do you say that a load performs if it works the action and goes down range ?
My loads hit what I aim at, work the action, and give me all the accuracy I want and then some.

Does it really matter? Can they shoot well enough on the average to be able to tell the difference?
Some do not shoot that well, naturally. Not everyone shoots to the same standard.
That has no bearing on what a person puts into there reloading efforts.
What should a person do ? use sloppy reloading practice because they think they are not as good a shot as the next person ?
I think everything you mentioned has an important place in reloading.
Sounds like your looking for a reason to skip some of them Eh. perhaps yes ?
perhaps no ?
But when your Putin down a country horse your walk-in on the fight en side of me
Hey I didn't say that --Merle Haggard said it.
I don't know the gentlemen you speak of and I don't care if I don't know them.
I do know what sound loading is all about and if they said BLA, BLA, BLA, to all of it I would still do it.
If you think we spin yarns over here ( it ain't so )
But please feel free to load any way you see fit, and set your own standards.
If I sound defensive I guess I am ( a little )
perhaps I just read your post the way it sounded.
Or perhaps you didn't write it to sound the way it did.

Sam

[44MAG#1]

I think my OP is self explaining. If you will read just what it says and not what you want it to say.
Performs means up to a reasonable expectation. You, hopefully, know that I did not mean if it worked the action after it went bang etc..
If your loads give you: "My loads hit what I aim at, work the action, and give me all the accuracy I want and then some.". then tey perform don't they? Could you possible get more of that performance or are you satisfied with where you are? Get my drift.
I don't remember asking anything about a horse do you. I never said anything about a fight. are you girding your loins for one?
There are steps in reloading one must go by. I sure don't leave out the primers to get done quicker.
Where did i say anyone here spinneD yarns. show me where. I said we have HEARD the resident experts but what abouit other non local experts? Don't they exist of are they all here?

Show me where I said sloppy.. I never advocated sloppy loading practices. Show me where.
If you don't know who John Linebaugh or Dustin is than you must live where the sunshine must be piped in.
I do load as I see fit just as you do. don't we have the same rights?
You are defensive over nothing. But that is probably just your personality. Maybe a complex or something brought on by your childhood.
We put our own way of how something sounds in the written word. You did not hear me speak it so you don't know how it would have sounded.
Please don't guess just read as it is written.
I asked a simple question that is all. How you take it is up to you I have no control over that.
You must have had a bad day or something.
I am not looking for a confrontation even though you are.
Just trying to clear up your misunderstanding.
Have a good night and I hope your day tomorrow will be better for you.

PS With all the bickering between the same 2 or 3 on here over bullets etc you actually jump on me? That is a load of gall I must say.

[9.3X62AL]

The Linebaughs and Mr. Seyfried are certainly qualified to render opinions on the questions you ask. So too is Mike Venturino, a member here and another noted and published authority on the subject of casting and handloading.

I've been published a bit, and have done expert testimony on firearms and cartridge nomenclature, identification, internal/external/terminal ballistics, training regimens, and related fields--in Federal Courts in CA and AZ and State courts in several CA counties. While I in no way represent myself to be in the same league as the Linebaughs, Ross Seyfried, or Mike Venturino, I do believe that I have some valid insight into the subjects we address herein.

Further, there are a large number of members here whose expertise and knowledge level far exceed my own in the matters you have questions about. I don't believe there is an online sourcepoint for the bullet casting hobby field that surpasses the potential knowledge base contained on this site.

Absolute answers have a habit of being deflected and caromed off by the manifold variables present in firearms--shooters--casting and reloading tools--metals composition--components and their variances. I think a search for The Truth is a path to madness (see "Middle East")--the best one can hope for is to find a truth that works for many or most, keeping in mind that there is more than one way to skin a cat--and be prepared to adapt as needed.

What prevents you from contacting these authorities you cite by mail or E-mail? There's nothing to lose by making the attempt. A bit less condescending tone toward those sources might be better than that used with your original text here, though.

ETA--Your most recent post seems to confirm my initial impression--that you are more interested in a confrontation than in a substantive reply. Not gonna play.

[gray wolf]

No confrontation here,
you have every right to do and say as you please.
I said I didn't know the gentlemen you spoke of --I didn't say I didn't know of them.
Nothing wrong with my child hood.
I did read it as written --the way it was written is the problem.
I don't have bad day's--I wasn't issued any.
If my day tomorrow is any better than to day I couldn't stand it.
When your in a hole the best thing to do is stop digging.

[44MAG#1]

My stars I sure didn't mean to be condesending using the words "resident experts."
They seem to reside here and seem to know what they are talikng about so what term should I have used?
Please tell me so I will not make the same mistake again.
Are they not RESIDENT EXPERTS or are they Foriegn Experts just visiting from afar?
Good gosh lighten up.

[45nut]

I didnt see any evil intent in the starting post here,, just need to remember not to read any extra's that were not intended as the written word can get lost in translation pretty easily folks.

[Bret4207]

I'm from Xenon 11 in the Pghfglibn Galaxy.

[felix]

Personally, I just ask the person DIRECTLY who has the info of what I need to know. ... felix

[9.3X62AL]

My apologies, 44 Mag #1. My impression was in error, it appears.

I'm no "resident expert" anyway, just a hobbyist with +/- 30 years of casting/shooting experience.

[felix]

Yes, you are, Al. ... felix

[44MAG#1]

I just thought that someone on here had been to a linebaugh seminar or has had a lenghty chat with John or Dustin while maybe discussing a custom gun or something concerning cast bullets and their preferences with bullets and loads.
I am not going to call one of them simply because I cannot afford a custom revolver and am not going to take up their time chatting while they could be working on some paying customers gun.
I am sure they have taken game and have maybe done quite abit of experimenting along the lines of bullets and alloys etc..
That is all.

[MtGun44]

One tidbit I have seen Linebaugh print - " any lube as long as it is soft and sticky
is good". Beyond that I never met or spoke with the man.

As to the comments - I have some things that have worked for me for years in many
different guns, not a particular expert but do have some applicable experience. It
also differs from some here. I take no offense as I know that there are many routes
to success. I will disagree most with anyone that says "This is the RIGHT answer"
rather than "In my experience, this has worked for me within these conditions for
this gun and caliber". Additional, even differing, experience is always in line and
welcomed.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

What Bill said. I would add that anything the Linebaughs, Ross Seyfried, or Mike Venturino had to say would be worth listening to.

That "soft and sticky" has been good for me, too.

[Lloyd Smale]

Im know john and dustin well enough to know that neither is a bullet caster. They both have done it but niether has time to cast bullets. they pretty much are fortunate in that they have freinds that have casting buisnesses and most of the bullets they use are given to them. As to what works in a cast bullet they take most of there advice from my buddy Al Anderson. to be honest john and dustin arent really guys that shoot a 1000 rounds a week. Both know there way around a sixgun better then most but again they really dont have the time to shoot everyday like some of us. Dont get me wrong both are excellent shots as theyve lived around sixguns all there lives but there not into the bullet making like most here are. Theres guys here that have casted more bullets in one year then both of them have combined in there lives. Al is the guy youd really want here but that aint happening. he spends about 10 minutes a day at the most on a computer and doesnt really take to answering a bunch of questions. Im fortunate to call him my best freind. hes shot more sixguns and rilfes with cast and jacketed bullets then anyone i know and does it better then anyone i know. Health issues have slowed him down lately but theres nobody thats into this hobby or has aquired more real world experience then him. If you ever had a chance to walk into his loading room it would blow you away! It makes mine look sad and guys drewl on mine. Hes the only guy i know that has actually worn out linebaugh guns and more then one of them to boot.

[44MAG#1]

Thanks Lloyd that is what I was looking for but ruffled a few feathers in the process.
I guess although the Linebaughs shoot and I guess shoot well they must not need to find the very most accurate load for their revolvers; mostly a general purpose load I guess.
Many thanks to you and if you can give more info I sure would appreciate it.

[gon2shoot]

Here's a thought. Just because a guy gets his name in print doesnt mean he's a good shooter/caster, it means he's a good writer. (some are both of course)

The knowledge and experience present on this board is amazing. There is of course, the know-it-alls / better-than-yous etc. just like in the gun rags. Fortunatly the "resident experts" here are approachable and generally more than willing to help.

Dang, thats more typing than I've done in 6 months. :lovebooli

[Bret4207]

Here's a thought. Just because a guy gets his name in print doesnt mean he's a good shooter/caster, it means he's a good writer. (some are both of course)

The knowledge and experience present on this board is amazing. There is of course, the know-it-alls / better-than-yous etc. just like in the gun rags. Fortunatly the "resident experts" here are approachable and generally more than willing to help.

Dang, thats more typing than I've done in 6 months. :lovebooli

Heck of a lot of truth in that post right there! Why people expect a gun maker or writer to be an "expert" in casting or any of 100 other shooting areas is beyond me. They're gun makers or writers, that doens't mean they are "experts" about everything.

[tek4260]

I have often wondered the same thing. I know that I have good days and bad days and any difference in accuracy is probably way less than my own "variation". I know that a ugly, poorly cast boolit can be accurate. Here is a pic of some of my 325gr Keiths. I am almost ashamed to look at that boolit, but it was about the 2nd time I had ever cast. Heck, I was melting rooster in a pan, dipping, then sizing in a Lee push thru. Look at the rounded bands and base. Not to mention the voids in them.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm35/tk3945/101_1280.jpg

FWIW, the new ones look much better:-P

[MT Gianni]

How does the old saying go? to a kid with a hammer everything's a nail. Does a 45 pushed to its upper limit take the same principles of accuracy as a 2" 32 Long @ 650 fps? I think the most knowledgeable may be the guy that can adapt to all areas of understanding the revolver and I know I don't come close.

[9.3X62AL]

Tek--that is right fine shooting, by both the rollerpistol and its operator! Purty boolit, too.

[Lloyd Smale]

theres good ones and bad ones. Some are getting old and dont shoot like they used to . They did put in there time and have valubable opinions though. Theres many out there now that are nothing but writers. they talk sixguns and they repeat things that came from an article that was wrote back in the 70s by someone else. the worse is the cast bullet advice alot give. Many here have casted more bullets in a year then the writer has in his life. they will print bullet advice that came from the 50s that has been proven wrong time and time. Most dont cast a single bullet. the bullet casting companys give them bullets so that they will mention there name in an article and theres some that rarely even reload and if they do to test a gun they test every gun in the same caliber with the same 4 or 5 loads every article. I recent saw where one of them that claimed to shoot the **** out of everything finally went out and bought him a square deal to load on. tell you what, if he shot as much as he claimed loading on a single stage press he must have just took up the hobby of sleeping at night.

I used to buy every gun magazine published. Before the internent thats where a guy got ideas to try. Anymore i rarely buy one. I subcribe to one now, handloader and even that one isnt what it used to be. I guess you have to just consider them entertainment and consider that theres good advice in them for someone that is just getting started in shooting and loading but the constant dribble of repeated articles and opinions and seeing them brag on guns that you know are junk just to get some advertising dollar gets old.

Im still a fan of John taffins. Im sure he takes a short cut or two occasionaly in his articles but i do know for a fact that even if he repeats something or uses the same loads he did last time that there loads that he at least did find and shoot himself. Theres a few on here that dont like him but at least hes an honest man and thats rare these days.

Heck of a lot of truth in that post right there! Why people expect a gun maker or writer to be an "expert" in casting or any of 100 other shooting areas is beyond me. They're gun makers or writers, that doens't mean they are "experts" about everything.

[Whitworth]

Here's a thought. Just because a guy gets his name in print doesnt mean he's a good shooter/caster, it means he's a good writer. (some are both of course)

The knowledge and experience present on this board is amazing. There is of course, the know-it-alls / better-than-yous etc. just like in the gun rags. Fortunatly the "resident experts" here are approachable and generally more than willing to help.

Dang, thats more typing than I've done in 6 months. :lovebooli

Amen to that!

I would add, get John L.'s phone number off of his website and give him a call. He's a very personable guy and he will talk to you (time permiting of course).

[44MAG#1]

Whitworth wrote: "Amen to that!

I would add, get John L.'s phone number off of his website and give him a call. He's a very personable guy and he will talk to you (time permiting of course)."

I wrote: "I am not going to call one of them simply because I cannot afford a custom revolver and am not going to take up their time chatting while they could be working on some paying customers gun."
I may not be much but I just don't like to take advantage of someones kindness. I assumed that the Linebaughs maybe use bought cast bullets but didn't really know.
I guess when one is as busy as they are they don't have time to cast.

[9.3X62AL]

Good points, 44 Mag--and gracious of you to be considerate of their time.

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess so. John gets flooded with calls from guys that just want to talk to him to say they did. they have no intention of having work done. I give you credit

[44man]

theres good ones and bad ones. Some are getting old and dont shoot like they used to . They did put in there time and have valubable opinions though. Theres many out there now that are nothing but writers. they talk sixguns and they repeat things that came from an article that was wrote back in the 70s by someone else. the worse is the cast bullet advice alot give. Many here have casted more bullets in a year then the writer has in his life. they will print bullet advice that came from the 50s that has been proven wrong time and time. Most dont cast a single bullet. the bullet casting companys give them bullets so that they will mention there name in an article and theres some that rarely even reload and if they do to test a gun they test every gun in the same caliber with the same 4 or 5 loads every article. I recent saw where one of them that claimed to shoot the **** out of everything finally went out and bought him a square deal to load on. tell you what, if he shot as much as he claimed loading on a single stage press he must have just took up the hobby of sleeping at night.

I used to buy every gun magazine published. Before the internent thats where a guy got ideas to try. Anymore i rarely buy one. I subcribe to one now, handloader and even that one isnt what it used to be. I guess you have to just consider them entertainment and consider that theres good advice in them for someone that is just getting started in shooting and loading but the constant dribble of repeated articles and opinions and seeing them brag on guns that you know are junk just to get some advertising dollar gets old.

Im still a fan of John taffins. Im sure he takes a short cut or two occasionaly in his articles but i do know for a fact that even if he repeats something or uses the same loads he did last time that there loads that he at least did find and shoot himself. Theres a few on here that dont like him but at least hes an honest man and thats rare these days.
This is where we part ways! Mr. John Taffin is the one that rode me over the coals about "boolit" and my group pictures, calling me a liar. Then his butt kisser friends started on my groups and got me kicked off of the Single Action site.
I will never, ever lie and only tell my experiences. Everyone is free to agree or disagree but please never call me a liar.

[MtGun44]

I've personally seen enough totally "impossible" shots actually done that I never say that
something can't be done just be ause I can't do it.

Too many people are way too impressed with their own work and suppose that nobody can best
their work, at least not by much. There are some REALLY good shooters out there and they
have done some really amazing things. I have even amazed myself a few times, but never
with "impossible" shots like I have seen. A few pretty decent ones, tho.

Bill

[44man]

I have to stick up for everyone here. There are more good shooters here then anywhere else and more information shared then anywhere else. More shooters here do more work to make their guns shoot better then anywhere else.
Gun comics have gotten dry! They test a gun and use 3 different factory loads, get a 2" group at 25 yards and tout the accuracy of the gun.
Then a writer goes into cast and will show all kinds of store bought stuff that we all know are no good but he will rave about them.
Some of those writers and gun makers are good shots, no doubt, but it is what they write today. Gone are the long test sessions with every bullet and powder like Ken Waters used to do.
The thing I hate most is more rags are showing super expensive stuff, "It only costs $15,000." Everything else is carry or protection oriented with a pistol that is cheap at $7000.
The next rag spends a million an issue taking pictures of guns with zero information. Gun sex! [smilie=s: They should call it "Playboy II."
Pick up about any rag today and just fan the pages, throw it away because you picked up all you can learn.
Come here and learn from the best! [smilie=w:

[44man]

I forgot, we also have craftsmen here that can make or fix anything. :cbpour:

[ole 5 hole group]

I recent saw where one of them that claimed to shoot the **** out of everything finally went out and bought him a square deal to load on. tell you what, if he shot as much as he claimed loading on a single stage press he must have just took up the hobby of sleeping at night.

[QUOTE=MtGun44;945128]I've personally seen enough totally "impossible" shots actually done that I never say that something can't be done just because I can't do it. Bill

Now there's a couple quotes to take to the bank, as if you can't get ammo by the case provided to you or have a couple friends assist in casting & running the progressive, you'll play hell getting in the trigger time necessary to pee in the tall grass with the big dogs - and even then, you might only be able to pee on yourself in the company of these folks. There are some amazing shooters in this world and then there are some pretty amazing shots made by pretty decent shooters that just put everything together for that 10 shot group or that small object that only 16 yoa eyes can see, but they managed to hit it anyway.

[Frank]

44man said
I have to stick up for everyone here. There are more good shooters here then anywhere else and more information shared then anywhere else. More shooters here do more work to make their guns shoot better then anywhere else.
Gun comics have gotten dry! They test a gun and use 3 different factory loads, get a 2" group at 25 yards and tout the accuracy of the gun.
Then a writer goes into cast and will show all kinds of store bought stuff that we all know are no good but he will rave about them.
Some of those writers and gun makers are good shots, no doubt, but it is what they write today. Gone are the long test sessions with every bullet and powder like Ken Waters used to do.
The thing I hate most is more rags are showing super expensive stuff, "It only costs $15,000." Everything else is carry or protection oriented with a pistol that is cheap at $7000.
The next rag spends a million an issue taking pictures of guns with zero information. Gun sex! They should call it "Playboy II."
Pick up about any rag today and just fan the pages, throw it away because you picked up all you can learn.

The info. on this board is a 10 and the gun rag is a .1 . For example, 44man gives you an actual discussion with proven experience. The gun rag is a charade to keep readers looking at advertising. They end the article when the page is done. When you finish the article, you feel cheated. :x

[Lloyd Smale]

You have to keep in mind that even the best of men have bad days. Maybe it was one of his. Ive got no problem believing you as i know you shoot alot and I wouldnt say you were full of it unless i actually saw proof. I take a man at his word till he gives me reason not to. But keep in mind pal that youve been called out by many people here and on other forums too. You want my take on the taffin vs you thing. Id about bet it came more from your post on FA guns. John and bob baker are good friends and nobody likes seeing there friends called out. Bottom line is both John and Bob are salt of the earth guys. Niether one has an inflated ego that is usually a requisit of being a gun writer or builder. John is a good christain man and would bend over backward for about anyone. I remember abouit 10 years ago Jim Taylor and i clashed about some things he said. Come to find out it again was just him having a slip of the brain. Something that anyone can do. When i got defensive with him all of the groupys came running to his defense. It seemed like he could say anything and they would defend him. Im not that way and absoultely detest people who suck someone ass like that. I dont hero worship anyone! Not even my father. I judge a man by who he is and how he treats me. Jim too is a great christain man that i wish I was more like. Moral of the story is I dont hold grudges. I say it like i see it and put alot of stock in my word. If i say hes a good man then he gave me reason to believe so. ;)QUOTE=44man;945019]This is where we part ways! Mr. John Taffin is the one that rode me over the coals about "boolit" and my group pictures, calling me a liar. Then his butt kisser friends started on my groups and got me kicked off of the Single Action site.
I will never, ever lie and only tell my experiences. Everyone is free to agree or disagree but please never call me a liar.[/QUOTE]

[Bret4207]

Hey Lloyd, you really want to get reamed go to some place like The High Road and tell the truth about Ayoob. Bring your own vaseline.

[Bret4207]

I have to stick up for everyone here. There are more good shooters here then anywhere else and more information shared then anywhere else. More shooters here do more work to make their guns shoot better then anywhere else.
Gun comics have gotten dry! They test a gun and use 3 different factory loads, get a 2" group at 25 yards and tout the accuracy of the gun.
Then a writer goes into cast and will show all kinds of store bought stuff that we all know are no good but he will rave about them.
Some of those writers and gun makers are good shots, no doubt, but it is what they write today. Gone are the long test sessions with every bullet and powder like Ken Waters used to do.
The thing I hate most is more rags are showing super expensive stuff, "It only costs $15,000." Everything else is carry or protection oriented with a pistol that is cheap at $7000.
The next rag spends a million an issue taking pictures of guns with zero information. Gun sex! [smilie=s: They should call it "Playboy II."
Pick up about any rag today and just fan the pages, throw it away because you picked up all you can learn.
Come here and learn from the best! [smilie=w:


There. Now I'm agreeing with you.

[44man]

You have to keep in mind that even the best of men have bad days. Maybe it was one of his. Ive got no problem believing you as i know you shoot alot and I wouldnt say you were full of it unless i actually saw proof. I take a man at his word till he gives me reason not to. But keep in mind pal that youve been called out by many people here and on other forums too. You want my take on the taffin vs you thing. Id about bet it came more from your post on FA guns. John and bob baker are good friends and nobody likes seeing there friends called out. Bottom line is both John and Bob are salt of the earth guys. Niether one has an inflated ego that is usually a requisit of being a gun writer or builder. John is a good christain man and would bend over backward for about anyone. I remember abouit 10 years ago Jim Taylor and i clashed about some things he said. Come to find out it again was just him having a slip of the brain. Something that anyone can do. When i got defensive with him all of the groupys came running to his defense. It seemed like he could say anything and they would defend him. Im not that way and absoultely detest people who suck someone ass like that. I dont hero worship anyone! Not even my father. I judge a man by who he is and how he treats me. Jim too is a great christain man that i wish I was more like. Moral of the story is I dont hold grudges. I say it like i see it and put alot of stock in my word. If i say hes a good man then he gave me reason to believe so. ;)QUOTE=44man;945019]This is where we part ways! Mr. John Taffin is the one that rode me over the coals about "boolit" and my group pictures, calling me a liar. Then his butt kisser friends started on my groups and got me kicked off of the Single Action site.
I will never, ever lie and only tell my experiences. Everyone is free to agree or disagree but please never call me a liar.[/QUOTE]
Nope, he jumped down my throat with my first post when I said BOOLIT, then the bandwagon started.

[9.3X62AL]

Well, take it all around--the tone and content here is about as good as it gets, mostly. That's what I was REALLY trying to say when I abused 44 Mag unnecessarily and brusquely. Again, I feel badly about that misunderstanding.