avoiding the first tumble lube

[buckbeans]

Hello Folks
I want to avoid the first tumble lubing step when using the lee sizing system by using a case lubricant(dillon) before sizing. Do you have to do anything special to wash off the lubricant before going on to the final tumble lube after sizing?

[deerslayer]

Until I read the directions I sized thousands with no lube at all!

[zomby woof]

Use soap and rinse boolits
with water.

[357maximum]

As long as you are not sizing the bejeegers out of a boolit and the boolit is not rock hard you can do em dry. Have done many many thoudands dry.

If you are moving alot of material and go the dishsoap route just remember that some soaps will want to rust your steel parts as they remove grease and oil from everything.

A touch of lanolin goes a real long ways..........that is the route I prefer when getting mean with a sizing die. You would likely need to wipe this off before a LLA application though.

[Recluse]

Not sure I'm getting the entire picture here. . .

You want to lube the boolits (with a different lube) in order to run them through the push-through sizer, then get rid of that lube, and then tumble-lube the freshly sized boolits with LLA (or whatever you tumble lube with)?

Not being smart or anything, but just wondering. . . why?

:coffee:

[buckbeans]

I started out tumble lubing and like the result. However as hard as I tried to ignore it, I hated seeing the lube on the nose and base. . So after sizing and lubing, I found myself wiping off the the lube off the top and wiping the base on a towel before seating the boolit. I found all the time I gained with tumble lubing was lost when I spent the extra time to clean each bullet.
So after doing this for a while I came up with another method

I don't actually tumble lube. I use a jig to lube the bearing surface and grooves without touching the nose or base of the boolit.
It is not as fast as tumble lubing. But it is much faster than tumble lubing and cleaning the nose and base after the lube dries.
Anyway I guess you do have to remove soap or lubricant before lubing

[CiDirkona]

...so lets see the jig. :)

[buckbeans]

Pm sent to CIDarona

[captaint]

buck - Not trying to be a smart alec, but, I thought I had issues!!! Honestly, buck. Try getting over the TL all over everything. I don't like it either, used to wipe the noses off. Now, I just roll past all that. The guns shoot exactly the same..... As long as were happy. enjoy Mike

[buckbeans]

I live in arizona and it is 108 degrees outside and my car is probably 130 degrees right now and that stain is real easy to rub on the carseat

My method is still in its primary stages and needs a lot of refinement but just did 50 38special wadcutters and took only 80 seconds or so.

[Recluse]

Understand.

But it sounds like what you're doing now is more akin to pain-lubing than tumble-lubing, in which case you can size after the lube has dried/adhered to the boolit(s).

Would save yourself a step, plus a lot of hassle.

:coffee:

[buckbeans]

thanks to all for your suggestions.

[geargnasher]

C'mon, Recluse, tell him about YOUR method!

Gear

[buckbeans]

thanks gear
but it is because of recluse's 45/45/10 that my simple method is possible. I could not do it without the combination. By the way, what was the final decision on naming that fine combination?

[Elkins45]

Why not use one of the pump spray case lubes that are just lanolin dissolved in alcohol? They are easy to apply and the lanolin might not interfere with adherence of the LLA? It might be worth an experimental try.

[buckbeans]

Elkins . The case prep lube spray from Dillon is what I was thinking about.

[CiDirkona]

I'm new to casting, but if I understand Recluse's steps and methodology, the first lubing gets base of the bullet, even if a good portion of the lube is scraped off during sizing. If you did a single step lubing process using dish soap, case lube, etc, you wouldn't have any lube applied to the bases. Granted, pan lubed or lubrisized bullets don't have much if any lube on the base, but it does seem like having a layer of 45/45/10 on the bottom could help prevent gas cutting at the base?

I've been thinking this method over quite a bit as a dollar store bottle of dishsoap would go a long way and be even cheaper than 45/45/10 (not that it's really that expensive...)

[chris in va]

I recently discovered I could lightly hose down my freshly minted boolits with silicone spray bought at the auto parts store. Dries fast, zips through my sizing die quick and I don't have to wait hours for the first layer of LLA to dry like before.

[buckbeans]

chris
did you have any problems with drying the LLA after using the silicone spray?
It looks like there are a few people besides who also want to avoid the first pre sizing coat

[Recluse]

For me, the first (tumble-lubing) is not a pre-sizing coat, but rather exactly what it is:

A first coat that gets in the microbands.

After I've run the boolits through the push-through sizer, they then get the second (tumble) lubing, which completes the process.

Now I have more lube in the microbands, and all exposed bearing surface is also lubed.

The addition of the JPW and its ingredients has the boolits drying within an hour or two easily, faster if you lube the boolits after slightly warming them up, warming the lube up, then placing them under a fan or outside in the sunlight.

I've yet to have any contamination of powder due to lube on the base. The (significantly) reduced LLA content eliminates tackiness, and the overall "color" or "tone" of the boolit is only slightly dulled from what it was when it first fell out of the mold during casting.

:coffee:

[buckbeans]

So the double application only applies to the non TL boolits that require sizing?

[Recluse]

So the double application only applies to the non TL boolits that require sizing?

Actually, just the opposite.

All of my TL boolits get tumble-lubed, naturally, and I (tumble) lube them twice. Once before I size them, and then after I size them.

The initial run through the push-through sizer will ultimately take off a bit of lead here and there with some boolits. Not all, but some. As I strive for consistency, I size all boolits. This way, I know they are all round and of the same diameter.

It's a significant factor to rule out when you're looking to refine loads or trying to figure out a problem.

After sizing, I (tumble) lube again. This applies an additional coat all over the boolit, including the areas of "fresh" or "raw" lead left exposed from the previous sizing. In addition, I get more lube in the microbands as "lube sticks to lube" in this process.

For the record, for those few traditional lube-groove boolits I tumble-lube, I do the same exact process.

However, when I'm using a lubesizer, I only size and lube once. Completely different process from tumble-lubing.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

Neither LLA nor 45/45/10 will affect powder or performance in any way by being on the bases. IF you are putting it on correctly, the slight film on the noses does nothing but help keep leading down as the boolit engraves and keep the nose from oxidizing in storage.

Sooooo, just lube, size, lube, load, and shoot! It takes about three minutes to lube 500 and pour them out on an old trash bag in the sun, so skipping the first step is really not gaining much IMO unless you're still trying to use straight LLA.

Gear

[357shooter]

Hi, I'm fairly new to tumble lubing so I may not get this right. I really like TL as I shoot a bunch (over 1,000 rounds) each month and pan lubing was getting old. It just took too much time.

Sounds to me like some folks thought or came to the conclusion that the primary purspose of the first tumble lube was for sizing.

If I understand correctly, 2 light coats of tumble lube give the best results. Even if someone chooses not to size, it's still 2 light coats to properly lube the bullets. Some folks size everything so it's always lube-size-lube-load. If you didn't size it would be lube-lube-load.

If someone wanted to use something like the silicone spray to lube for sizing, it would be spray-size-lube-lube-load. Not really saving or improving anything from what I can tell.

[Recluse]

I want lube adhesion to the boolit--which is why I wouldn't spray my boolits with silicone or case lube prior to sizing them, then lubing.

Now, that's just me.

As much scientific fact as there is in boolit casting and all involved with it, there are equal amounts of superstition.

And I have as much superstition-based traditions as the next guy. :)

Again, I always size every boolit so that I am assured each boolit is the same size, same roundness, etc. That's just me.

If I didn't size every boolit, I would still (tumble) lube twice. Two light coats. Dries quick. Not tacky, Does the job superlatively.

:coffee:

[357shooter]

Recluse: Agreed, I don't spray with silicone either. I was just trying to make it clear that it didn't replace a LLA lube step.

I did try some 148 wadcutters with 1 lube step, they were very accurate with no leading. I tried that with some faster 158 loads and got leading; so I'm sticking to the 2 light coats of lube. Seems to work well. Will use 1 coat just in the 148's.