.44 cal Mold I.D.

[Az Rick]

Guys I ran across a RCBS mould in .44 that is labeled 44245 KT. It looks to be in excellent condition. I realize it's a 245gn. mould but does anyone know what the KT is for. RCBS still lists a 245gr. semi wadcutter but the numbers are different. What is the easiest way to ID a Keith style mould? I know it should have a longer nose. Are the driving bands different also.




Thanks for any help, Rick

[Dennis Eugene]

the RCBS 44-245-KT is RCBS's Keith style mold. The KT stands for Keith. To ID a Keith style the Lube groove should be square not rounded and Driveing bands should be of equal length. Atho you will run across many molds listed as Keith style not possesing all or any of these things. Hope this helps. Dennis

[Az Rick]

I was hoping it was a Keith stlye. I guess I should pick it up.

Thanks

[EDK]

Look for a product number...82044 (IIRC) is a plain base Keith/Thompson. Ray Thompson designed 358156, 429215 and 429244...among others.

[462]

KT is for Keith Type, which, I think, is some how different than their 44-245-K (Keith).

[GLL]

http://www.fototime.com/2CB4022C53F7A88/standard.jpg

44-245-KT = #82043 is the same as the 44-245-SWC

44-250-KT = #82044 is the same as the 44-250-SWC (made in both round & square lube grooves

44-250-K = #82080

Note that RCBS changed the profile of these moulds a couple times through the years ! :( :(

Jerry

[Az Rick]

Thanks to all. Gll, a picture's worth a thousand words. Thanks for taking the time with the photo. I'd rather have the 250K as it's the real deal. I probably will get the 245KT since it's only 30 Bucks.
The driving bands are different as is the crimp area. There's lots of surface area on the bands.
Those are some beautiful boolits.
Rick

[Shuz]

FWIW--Lyman has also made many versions or variations of the 429421, supposedly their 44 cal. Keith design, down thru the years. I have several of those different designs, and I gotta admit I can't say any one is any more accurate than any other.......at least not outta my handguns and with me shooting them! I will say this tho, the variation that has the round type grease groove, drops outta the moulds much easier than the square groove design.

[GLL]

Rick:

When you get the mould I would appreciate a couple bullets to examine the differences in the driving bands and crimp area you mention !

Jerry

[GLL]

Since Shuz mentioned the 429421 here is another photo for comparison. The bullet is from an old IDEAL 429421 single cavity mould.
As he indicated LYMAN made VERY many changes to the design over the years !

http://www.fototime.com/663AE09580611F3/standard.jpg

Jerry

[Az Rick]

GLL, I think I mislead you, I was making an observation between the 245KT and 250K in your pics. You will absolutely be welcome to a couple of samples. I'll bet this mould is like your 245 though. It's been a couple of days since I've seen it. I am new to casting, read alot here but still have questions. Like Shuz, Dennis and EDK mentioned seems like every manufacturer has their own idea of what a Keith is and it had me confused. Being able to compare side by side was a big help, educational.
I'll bet others benefited too.
In the last pic, I think the Ideal mould looks like I think a Keith should, the distance between the bottom band and crimp band?
May be a couple of weeks before I cast though, got a vacation coming up, headed to the cool mountains.
Thanks everyone for the posts/ discussion keep 'em coming, I'm learnin.

Rick

[MtGun44]

Later 44-250 K is a wonderful mold, as are the "not weird" versions of the 429421, and
there are some really bad looking versions with that number stamped. How about a version
with a .030 or so LONG front driving band???? I have a pic of this mold somewhere at home
and Glen has told me that he has seen one like it. Since Elmer specifically wanted a 'large
full diameter front driving band equal to the two rear bands' -- this is clearly not a Keith
design, regardless of what Lyman stamped on them.

Understand what geometry Elmer wanted and then compare the actual boolit to that intent
and see if you really want that "Keith type" mold after all.

Bill