What mold for an 1895 guide gun?

[stubert]

I have a credit with Lyman. I want to get a new mold for my 45-70 GG. I already have a 45-405 gc RCBS. I'm looking at the Gould hollow point, My worry is leading. That design is a non checked flat base. Any first hand experience with that bullet would be appreciated. Also, do you think I could use that bullet in a .458 Lott with reduced loads in a Ruger #1?

Thanks, Stu

[part_timer]

I do have that HP mold but I only have about 50 rounds of experiance with it. I only had a very little leading but I wasn't pushing them very hard. They were cast with WW and sized .458. They did group pretty well though.

[Artful]

I know that Paul A. Matthews in his book "Forty Years with the .45-70" liked it - I'm hoping the Group Buy of Duke Nukem's design ( http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=69462 )preforms as well. In Paul's book it mentions the early version had a cavity big enough to insert a 22 short RF blank into and that his mould was smaller cavity but he would on occasion insert a steel B to plug the hole to make a solid point from his hollow point mold.

[Old Goat Keeper]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Gould bullet around 330 grains while Duke's group buy is to be at 500 grains? Quite a difference in weights to be comparing them!

Tom

[missionary5155]

Good morning
And what are you looking to shoot at with this HP boolit ? How fast are you wanting to push it ? At what range are you looking to have an impact ? What is the throat diameter of your particular Marlin GG & Ruger #1 ? What powders and lead do you have available ?
All these factors are going to come into play...
Mike in Peru

[NickSS]

The Gould HP bullet was designed for shooting deer at black powder velocities. The problem the old guys had with the 45-70 was that the government bullets would go right through a deer and not do much damage and the animals would get away only to die later (this was with black powder). Gould designed his bullet so that it would expand when cast from soft lead and kill deer quicker. It works very good and was the go to bullet for deer hunders using the 45-70 for years. When cast from stronger aloy it can be driven faster and will still expand well but I would say that around 1400 to 1500 fps is about max for a plain base bullet. I have tried the gould bullet in several 45-70s and it shoots well in all of them including my Marlin guide gun but it is not a good bullet for higher velocities.

[threett1]

Been using the Gould boolit for several years now in my Guide Gun. Mine casts out right at 340gr. I pan lube it and shoot it unsized. It works great at 1600fps. Hardly any leading using WW alloy and my home made lube. Its death and destruction on whitetails and pigs under 300lb. Get it and enjoy. Very accurate in my guns.

[Humbo]

I've had excellent results with the SAECO #017, sized to .459. With my alloy (around 92-6-2), after lubing and sizing they're right at 350-351 grains. They're every bit as accurate as any factory boolit I've run through my gun, I can shoot 1 inch groups at more than 50 yards with open sights all day long.

http://home.online.no/~kjel-phu/bilder/IMG_4278.JPG

[WHITETAIL]

There are many powders you can try.
But the ones that keep poping up are.
IMR- 4198
IMR-30-31
RELOADER 7
I would check these out with the Gould boolit.:redneck:

[stubert]

I had planned on using them for deer, at 50 - 100 yd. shots about 1500. looks like I'm getting a new mold. Thanks

[44man]

The Gould HP bullet was designed for shooting deer at black powder velocities. The problem the old guys had with the 45-70 was that the government bullets would go right through a deer and not do much damage and the animals would get away only to die later (this was with black powder). Gould designed his bullet so that it would expand when cast from soft lead and kill deer quicker. It works very good and was the go to bullet for deer hunders using the 45-70 for years. When cast from stronger aloy it can be driven faster and will still expand well but I would say that around 1400 to 1500 fps is about max for a plain base bullet. I have tried the gould bullet in several 45-70s and it shoots well in all of them including my Marlin guide gun but it is not a good bullet for higher velocities.
It has finally been said the way it is with the 45-70.
I have had the exact same problems with harder boolits in my revolver all the way to a WFN. The boolit must be softer for deer and I would say for black bear too.
I went too far last season with a 420 gr HP cast of 50-50 and oven hardened. The off shoulder was destroyed on boolit exit. :Fire:
The caliber can do everything, just regulate hardness for what you hunt. Boolit design won't mean much as long as it is accurate enough. Beware of a too soft hollow point, they can make a mess.

[45r]

Ken Waters wrote an article in handloader about the gould HP and was getting 1 7/16 inch groups at 100 using 31 grains IMR 4198 with a 24 inch Marlin.Said it worked well on deer.I got the saeco 350 myself since it looks like a GC gould and I like saeco molds.I drill a little hollow point if I think I need one.It shoots well in my XLR with several powders at low,medium and fast velocity.It shoots half to 3/4 inch at 60 yards and 1 to 2 at 100 depending on wind conditions.I like the 350 grain boolits in 45-70 and would like to get a BRP 350GC mold someday.The quality of his molds are excellent.I have a MM 405PB and had a rcbs 405GC mold but don't like the recoil when pushed hard.The rcbs 300GC isn't too bad pushed hard but isn't quite as accurate as the saeco 350GC.I think the small metplat on the saeco helps with the accuracy.I shoot air cooled WW so sizing .459 works good enough.The reason I haven't got the Gould HP is I've read they drop small.My saeco 350 drops .460 to .461 with WW plus 2 percent tin.