W-296 & 40s&w

[BT Sniper]

I don't venture out much from the swaging section but figured I would look around a bit. Great sight here so I figure I will post a question looking for some opinions from you all about using W-296 in the 40 S&W. I know all the powders that will work but can find very little about anyone trying this one. I am very fimilar with the 296 in the big 44s as it is one of the go to powders as well as the caution to avoid reduced loads with this powder.

I have a 40 HiPoint carbine with 190 grian bullets i wish to shoot. I have had great results allready with Blue Dot but have 5 lbs of W-296. With the 16" barrel I am looking to take advantage of the longer burn potential. I have heard that the blow back operated bolt could be a problem if it opens up before the pressure has subsided but don't know anything about this.

Could I get decent results with 296 using a tight crimp and mag primer in the 40?

Anyone have any ideas for a starting point?

What little info I have found sugests that the amount of space in the case for powder would not allow room for enough powder to generate enough pressure. Again very limited info I have found and most is just hear say.

I suppose I am looking for someone to talk me out of it......... but it is still tempting. All those what ifs both good or bad.

Anyway good shooting and thanks for the helpful replies.

BT

[Calamity Jake]

I will talk you out of it!! 296 is a good powder for the magnum HG loads,30 carbine, a few of the SMALL rifle calibers and 410 SG and that's about it.
You will never be able to get enouth 269 in that 40 S&W case and still seat a boolit to do you any good.

[Edubya]

I think that I would send that note that you've posted here to the Winchester/Hogdon folks and let them comment on it.
Ultimately, I'd probably have to put about 13.5gr of W296 in a case, seat one of them pretty lil' pills on it and fire it across the chronograph.

EW

Before you write to Winchester, you might measure out and see what is the maximum that you could charge the case with your seating.

[kawalekm]

Hi Brian
I remember reading that Dean Grennell tried H110 (W296) in a 9mm carbine rifle. I think it was in the 5th edition of "ABC's of Reloading". Velocity was nothing to cheer about, but he did report it was the most accurate 9mm load he had ever seen.

Might be worth a try. BTW though, since bullets made from 9mm cases tend to be slightly longer than regular jacketed 40 bullets, I'd guess that case capacity for a very bulky powder like 296 would be decreased even more.
Good luck,
Michael

[S.R.Custom]

What little info I have found sugests that the amount of space in the case for powder would not allow room for enough powder to generate enough pressure....

That is correct. In order to generate a useful velocity with that bullet and 296/110, you'd need about 20 or 21 grs of the stuff. And to fit it under the bullet, you'd need a case about 1.2" long. Hrmmmm.... where have we seen that before?

http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt10mag.htm

[BT Sniper]

Thanks SRC, interesting read. Still undecided but my optimisium is a bit less as it looks like it may be a bit of a stretch.

So does anyone think there lays any danger in the attempt with 296 in the 40S&W or just unsatisfactory results being the likly outcome.

BT

[S.R.Custom]

I don't think you're going to blow yourself up, or anything like that, but be sure to check the bore after each shot. There isn't going to be enough powder to build decent pressure, and you may stick a bullet in the bore if the fire goes out before the bullet reaches the muzzle. (296 does that-- if the pressure doesn't build quickly and hotly enough, it just goes out.)

Although I used 296 in the 9mm once, and it never did that. Recoil indicated velocity was waaay down, tho.

When I was a handloading noOb I once loaded some .44 magnum with H4198, because it was there and I was bored. I was expecting lots of slow burning shock & awe, but as best I could tell from the recoil, velocity was down at least 50%, and the powder was still burning when the bullet left the bore, and it continued to burn as it fell to the ground and set the yard on fire.

If you're looking to wake up the .40 S&W, AA#7 is your powder.

[BT Sniper]

THanks SR I have heard good things about the AA powder in the 40. Now I just need to find some around here.

LOL with setting the yard on fire.

BT

[HeavyMetal]

Not exactly a thread hi jack I had a buddy try 2400 in the 45 auto some years ago.

He had put a 16 inch carbine barrel and butt stock in a combat commander and was hoping to make some "power"!

He ejected some of the nicest 45 case art I've ever seen!

Each case looked about 9.75 months pregnant! After looking at about a dozen of these he decided that 2400 in the 45 auto was a bad idea!

We figured the pressure curve was still building as the barrel un locked and the case started to move out of the chamber. Right on the raggady edge of bursting the case it actually blew them up like a balloon as they ejected. the case clearing the chamber must have dropped the pressure curve just as the case was hitting max expansion / burst point!

An interesting lesson in useing the way wrong powder in the 45 auto case!

Suspect you'll see the same in the 40 if you pursue the 296 project!

If your looking for a different load ty Lee's 145 grain SWC in the 40.

Bluedot will get you into high 1290's low 1300 depending on gun and barrel length, it certainly shoots flat!

[S.R.Custom]

LOL with setting the yard on fire.

BT

No lie... It was summer, tall dead grass in the back 40. I was shooting at a target, not paying attention to much else, when the guy guy I was with says "You might want to watch your feet..."

2400 in a 45ACP... never thought of that! (Prolly a good thing.) Although I've used Blue Dot and #7 in a .45ACP moonclip gun. That was a pretty snappy combination.

[Frosty Boolit]

THanks SR I have heard good things about the AA powder in the 40. Now I just need to find some around here.

LOL with setting the yard on fire.

BT

I second that on the AA powders in .40 I've used #7 under a 180 grain gold dot and it has some punch. So far i have only used start loads. For target work, the #5 is more economical in the .40 and all the other pistol calibers I shoot: 9mm,
.38, .357, .44, .45. AA powders work for me!