Mystery Swaging Stuff

[shaggist]

I acquired the pictured swaging gear, and need some help identifying what's here. There is:
one punch holder,

4 punches(diameters & markings-.188, 'Ext.' ; .196, 'S-705-45 gn' ; .197, 'S-705-55gn' ; .223, 'B.Sw.'.

one die body with ejector, .188 diameter ejector has cupped rod tip;

one die body with ejector, .221 diameter ejector has flat tip;

In what press are these designed to be used? Am I missing a piece that the ejector rods screw into, and which holds the appropriate die body?

I need to know, as they don't fit my press, and I either need to sell them or get a press that fits them.

Click on the pictures several times and they get bigger.

[Pressman]

From the looks of the tallest part, it is a ram extension to fit an RCBS A series press. As for who made the set I do not know. But they are clean and well cared for if they are old enough to have been made for an A.
Ken

[shaggist]

Pressman,
What you are calling the ram extension is what I call the punch holder. The four punches fit into it exactly, and are held in place by the threaded/knurled small part. There are no threads or a cavity on the other end of it to mate to anything like a ram. There is a hole perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the big piece, but it isn't threaded. I'm at a loss as to what these dies are, how they are used, and what type of press they were designed for. Thanks for the idea, though.

[Pressman]

Copuld it be they were made by someone else to fit an RCBS press?

The A presses used a two piece ram. The actual shellholder was 2.5 inches long, 3/4 inch in diameter. It fit into the main ram, with a tapered cross pin. Thus, your standing piece looks like it could fit an A press. RCBS used a simaler arrangemet with their own swaging dies.

Still, it is a good mystery.
Ken

[Bent Ramrod]

The A2 press I have has a very large diameter ram with a smaller detachable one that holds the shellholder. As Pressman said, you can remove one pin and replace the shellholder ram with a more solid punch holder ram for bullet swaging. The groove in the shellholder ram for the priming arm was thought to compromise the ram strength when swaging bullets.

Your set looks like one I have that came from the Bahler Die Shop, 1500 Thompson Rd., Coos Bay Oregon. You should, however, have a die holder that looks like a loading die with a hexagonal nut for setting the depth on your press. The ejector plunger you have would screw into the top of the holder to push out seated cores (wide punch) or formed bullets (very thin punch, almost like a wire, and spring loaded), and the core seat and point form die (the knurled parts) would screw into the bottom of the holder, open end pointing toward the punch on the ram.

The Bahler die set I have has that screw-in punch holder ring, which allowed the punch to float a little so it wouldn't hit the side of the die. The point former has ".2241" written on the bottom in electric pencil.

[shaggist]

It sounds as if the collective knowledge of Pressman and Bent Ramrod are soving the mystery. From what y'all have come up with so far, I've determined that I am missing the die body that has the ejector pin mechanism screwed into the top end and the actual die itself screwed in the bottom end facing the ram. The tall, solid piece with the two cross holes is what holds the punch and fits into the ram. Since I don't know of anyone with a 'A' model press, I can't check this, but it is logical.

The next mystery is what caliber is the .188 die for, as it is too big for .17 caliber and too small for .20 and .22. Then there are the two intermediate punches of .196 and .197 diameters. I'm wondering if these are parts to an incomplete set for making jackets from .22 RF hulls and bullets from these jackets. Any thoughts in that direction?

[Bent Ramrod]

Here are a couple pictures of my Bahler set with the die holder. Note that this set has the RCBS A2 attachment as well. (I'd forgotten this as I made a screw-in attachment for a standard shell holder when I played around with the set after I got it.)

Sorry the pictures are so dark. They always look nice and light on the camera screen and overexposed on the screen when I use the flash.

Your set might be made to use extra thick jackets as the punches were made for a sliding fit (and no more) for whatever jacket type the swager wanted to use. Leakage of lead around the core seating punch is fatal to accuracy, I am here to tell you. Alternately, the set could have been made for .20 or even .19 caliber bullets to satisfy the whim of some way-out experimenter of the time.

If I recall, there is a brief rundown of the various diemakers in Corbin's Rediscover Swaging book.

[shaggist]

Once again, the knowledge of the members of this forum proves to be equal to any task, no matter how obscure.
These parts have been identified by Bent Ramrod to be made by Bahler (see his pictures above) and include what are most likely different core seating punches to fit jackets with different wall thicknesses, 2 different dies (one .188 core swage die and one .223 core seating die) with ejector pins and punches for each, and a punch holder for an RCBS A press.
What is lacking is the die body, which has the ejector pin screwed into the top and the die screwed into the bottom of the body.
Without the die body, I can't use these items, so, if someone has a die set they aren't using, I'd like to discuss purchasing it, or, if someone wants to buy what I have, send me a PM and we'll chat.