Thought you might like to read this link.

[Changeling]

I read this link and do like some of Mr. Fryxel's articles. Why he bashes LBT is unknown.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44OverWeight.htm

Anyway, it's interesting.

[357maximum]

I think you have interpreted fact finding and honest reporting with bashing. That being said I will take Glenns words over a Herters like salesman's words everytime and I consider LBT soft blue to be my testing standard for lubes.

You can hear what you want to in my statement.

[Changeling]

I think you have interpreted fact finding and honest reporting with bashing. That being said I will take Glenns words over a Herters like salesman's words everytime and I consider LBT soft blue to be my testing standard for lubes.

You can hear what you want to in my statement.

No, I don't think I misinterpreted anything and I'm not a Herter's type salesman, you don't use bullets designed for long cylinder revolvers and moan about the fit in one they weren't designed for. The overall interpretation is that LBT bullets or just so-so. But the industry uses his examples and bullet terminology almost exclusively!

To many people are going to read that article and assume "WOW" the SSK is the way to go, so that is what I will buy! That bullet is in fact AWESOME for "penetration" and was designed for African game, meaning "LARGE" game because of it's penetration ability.
As a projectile for deer/antelope/black bear it would be a poor choice.

As for hearing, listen closely, I feel the same way.

[crabo]

I didn't see any bashing anywhere. It was simply him reporting his findings. Thanks for the link. I wish he had tested the Lee 310 boolit.

[44MAG#1]

Changeling:
I read the whole thing and did not see where he bashed LBT.
He merely stated the bullet he tested from LBT was not a good design for the Super Blackhawk. This is because it was set up for the longer cylinder of the Super Redhawk, Redhawk and a Dan Wesson.
If you know anything about LBT you then know he will place the crimp groove where you want it for certain guns.
Clearly this bullet was set up for the longer cylinder guns. Do you see more clearly now?
Besides he stated that this was not a" concrete fact "test as anyone except a few knows that.
So where does the bashing come in.
I know you like to ignore me but at least answer that.

[44MAG#1]

Another thing.. JD Jones gave the heavy bullet thing a shot in the arm back in the early '80's like it or not. I have one of his 320 JDJ molds that was marketed by him.
It was and is a good shooter with 21.5 gr WW296. The meplat is smaller than some others and the bearing surface is long but it is still a good bullet.
Like JD or not he does have a vast amount of knowlege on hunting and also Larry Kelley. Just because they don't keep the internet air waves hot with argueing and bickering over bullet design, hardness, meplat area and bullet sizing diameters doesn't mean they don't.

[garandsrus]

Changeling,

I am pretty sure that 357Max was talking about LBT, not you...


No, I don't think I misinterpreted anything and I'm not a Herter's type salesman

John

[357maximum]

Changeling,

I am pretty sure that 357Max was talking about LBT, not you...



John

I am positive you are correct John:lol:.

Like I said "you can hear what you want to in my statement" ....and he did[smilie=b:

Veral has added alot to our hobby. Noone can take that away from him, but after reading some of his typings I have come to some of my own conclusions, and that is my perrogative. I still consider LBT soft blue to be the accuracy standard for ooober high rifle velocities with cast when it comes to "big name" lubes. There are others out there that beat it but they are not big names and are alot cheaper, but then again you do not have to pay for the hot air and sales pitch with the smaller guys.

[StarMetal]

357maximum,

I too think highly of LBT Blue lubes, but as you know there is are a few members who bash it pretty good because it didn't work for them. I've tried it in a few different firearms and loads and find it quite good. I only made my lube as I didn't want to pay the price for LBT Blue lube. You're right, it's the one to try to duplicate or beat.

[waksupi]

It seems that some lubes, and varying techniques don't work equally as well in different climates. I imagine this is the issue. For instance, Bore Butter for round ball patches is about the poorest lube you could shoot in this particular area, but others in moister climates swear by it. Others can not get wheel weights to work well for them in some applications, where others get along with them just fine. It would be interesting testing the same gun in different altitudes and humidity conditions.

[StarMetal]

It seems that some lubes, and varying techniques don't work equally as well in different climates. I imagine this is the issue. For instance, Bore Butter for round ball patches is about the poorest lube you could shoot in this particular area, but others in moister climates swear by it. Others can not get wheel weights to work well for them in some applications, where others get along with them just fine. It would be interesting testing the same gun in different altitudes and humidity conditions.

I've done that testing Ric with the same rifles and bullets and different lubes. Testing was done in Colorado, Oklahoma, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee to just name a few. From mountain tops to just about sea level, to high humidity to low humidity, extreme heat to freezing cold and everything in between.

Because of tests like is how the good lubes get sorted out.

[357maximum]

Well Ric all you need to do then is find 56 members with ranges that are willing to let you stay at their house and you can try all the stuff in all 57 of Obummers states. :lol:

I can let you try your caravan of lubes/alloys/and powders here in the great and once prosperous state of Michigan as I have a spare wing in the kennel. :lol: only 55 states to go. :lol:

For the record I absolutely detest borecrudder though.

[waksupi]

Well Ric all you need to do then is find 56 members with ranges that are willing to let you stay at their house and you can try all the stuff in all 57 of Obummers states. :lol:

I can let you try your caravan of lubes/alloys/and powders here in the great and once prosperous state of Michigan as I have a spare wing in the kennel. :lol: only 55 states to go. :lol:

For the record I absolutely detest borecrudder though.

This may be an excellent idea. If nothing else, it is sure to raise my standard of living!

[Bass Ackward]

I read this link and do like some of Mr. Fryxel's articles. Why he bashes LBT is unknown.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44OverWeight.htm

Anyway, it's interesting.


Makes you think huh?

Bullet weight goes to two areas. Support and unsupported. As unsupported increases, there is less for supported.

The purpose of unsupported is an attractive nose or to increase case capacity.

The purpose for supported is case neck tension, alignment, and bearing area.

How many bullets heavies and lights move forward even a few .000 that you DON'T know about simply because they DON'T tie up the cylinder? :grin:

It's a good test even for the light ones. Measure the 5th and 6th shots before you shoot one time.

And I sorta like Blue Soft too.

[Bret4207]

No, I don't think I misinterpreted anything and I'm not a Herter's type salesman, you don't use bullets designed for long cylinder revolvers and moan about the fit in one they weren't designed for. The overall interpretation is that LBT bullets or just so-so. But the industry uses his examples and bullet terminology almost exclusively!



There's very little in this game that's new. Some Verals designs are similar to B+M's designs and his sprue plate hold down is an offshoot of Cramers. He's also a good marketer that had a huge amount of help from Ross Seifried (sp) back when Ross was "The Man".

[Ed K]

I think this is post #16 and not one person thus far (including me) has agreed that Glen was "bashing" LBT in that article. Glen poses an interesting question with 44 bullets trending heavier all the time. I found it quite interesting that while the newest crop of heavyweights may go too far, Glen determined an optimum figure somewhere around 320gr. Note that not only is this considerably heavier then the long standing 240/250gr 44 bullet and it is also right where John Linebaugh pegged the "balance point" for bullet weight in the 44 magnum some 15 years ago in this article:

Gun Notes: Heavyweight Bullets (http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/heavyweight_bullets.htm)

[Changeling]

The things I said were true, Changeling!

"There's very little in this game that's new. Some Verals designs are similar to B+M's designs and his sprue plate hold down is an offshoot of Cramers. He's also a good marketer that had a huge amount of help from Ross Seifried (sp) back when Ross was "The Man".

Ross Seifried wasn't the man for NO reason. He loved his revolvers and what he did concerning them. He new exactly what projectiles did what and WHY. That is what made him great, sound familiar?

When he was turned on to the possibilities of higher velocities Mr Lanbaugh (spelling), loved the new technology enough to show Ross, who was simply astounded, and embraced it for the rest of his life along with the LBT designs. That should tell you something and still leave room for improvement if you think you can, and everything can be improved, If it hasn't changed for any Company or literary reason ! It works, what the Hell is better than that!

[Ed K]

Changeling, I think I need a code book to decipher what you are trying to say...

[JesterGrin_1]

I wish he had tested the Lee 310 boolit.

I agre as I feel the Lee 310Gr RNFP/GC is underated due to the fact there is very little information on it. Other than the Nuts here lol. :)

[Bret4207]

The things I said were true, Changeling!

"There's very little in this game that's new. Some Verals designs are similar to B+M's designs and his sprue plate hold down is an offshoot of Cramers. He's also a good marketer that had a huge amount of help from Ross Seifried (sp) back when Ross was "The Man".

Ross Seifried wasn't the man for NO reason. He loved his revolvers and what he did concerning them. He new exactly what projectiles did what and WHY. That is what made him great, sound familiar?

When he was turned on to the possibilities of higher velocities Mr Lanbaugh (spelling), loved the new technology enough to show Ross, who was simply astounded, and embraced it for the rest of his life along with the LBT designs. That should tell you something and still leave room for improvement if you think you can, and everything can be improved, If it hasn't changed for any Company or literary reason ! It works, what the Hell is better than that!

Quote- "But the industry uses his examples and bullet terminology almost exclusively!"

I'm not following your line of thought here. "The industry" doesn't use Verals examples and terminology exclusively at all, Ross has nothing to do with this discussion beyond why Veral went from unknown to relative superstar overnight and neither does Linebaugh.

[cptinjeff]

Bret,

I think what he means by "industry speak" here is:

Before I (jeff) became a boolit caster and was only a cast bullet shooter. I was aware of two types of lead bullets for hunting. "Keith type" which meant any SWC and "LBT type" which was the style that was produced by Cast Performance and Bearthtooth Bullets ect.


Oh yeah and WC. but I never put them in the hunting catagory.

Of course I know better now...but even having been a reloader for over a decade and shooting thousands of rounds a month and reading all I could...until this world of BOOLITS was in my brain I had no idea how much there still is to learn.

No trying to speak for Changeling but I think the above sentiment is what he is refering to.

[Changeling]

LFN, WFN, etc, were coined by LBT, at least that is how I and millions see it. He put the wide meplat in the publics eye. Meplats up to .360 for the 45 and about .340 for the .44 in WFN/WLN, a lot less for the .44LFN. However a lot of you think this was standard Elmer Keith.

Elmer Keith's meplat design for the .44 was .275 and for the .45 was about .290 or less if memory serves me correctly. It is the Public/manufactures that changed meplats of the "authentic versions" made today. You Know the ones you are arguing with me about that absolutely has nothing to do with the Post.

TRY READING THE POST! Then you can expound to your hearts content, ABOUT THE POST!!
Unless of course you are paranoid about something and you want to make excuses for, and blame on me, witch I don't mind at this point because I seem to be the target regardless of the subject.

ONK, ONK, ONK, just checking my hearing, some here seem to think I have a hearing problem! WOW, not as bad as a reading problem!!!

[44MAG#1]

There is no one on here that is a keith fan that believe he was the daddy of the meplats you are talking about. Who said he was. Point it out. Show us where a true Keith fan (not a supposedly Keith fan) has said that.
He brought attention to the need for larger meplats (because of his access to writing for mags. like american rifleman etc.) but he wasn't the daddy of the ones we have today.
A true Keith fan knows that.
Don't you?

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree totaly

[Quote=Veral has added alot to our hobby. Noone can take that away from him, but after reading some of his typings I have come to some of my own conclusions, and that is my perrogative. I still consider LBT soft blue to be the accuracy standard for ooober high rifle velocities with cast when it comes to "big name" lubes. There are others out there that beat it but they are not big names and are alot cheaper, but then again you do not have to pay for the hot air and sales pitch with the smaller guys.[/QUOTE]

[Bret4207]

Changeling, I have no idea who you are addressing or who you are arguing with. I'm not sure you know anymore either. So I'll leave it at this- some of the cast boolit makers use LBT's terms. That's it.