Lyman 225646

[stephen perry]

I will be recieving a Lyman 225646 mold soon. I have cast 22 cal in 225438, 225415, and 225462 since 1962 for mainly for my Rem 722 in .222 Rem. I also have a Rem 700 in 22-250 and a Rem 788 in .223. And I have 4 barrels in 22 PPC on different BR guns, at least one of my 22 PPC barrels will see some cast.

My interest in the 225646 is for top cast bullet velocity with under .5 MOA. I will cast dump in water, bake and shake , and use my Caranuba Red lube. I'll be buying a Oehler 35 to record my efforts. I have the best reloading gear money can buy for loading all my 22 calibers. This will be one of my many cast projjects as I approach retirement. I have Cast for 47 years among my many years of NBRSA benchrest.

Would appreciate any comparisons using the 225646 cast with similar guns as mine. Sorry no other comparisons with other Cast offerings sought. I have several thousand lbs of wheel weights, linotype, pure lead, and space metal. Not sure on sizing diameter I have .224 and .225 sizing dies with a Lyman 45 and 450 luber/sizer. I Cast for 35+ molds.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[felix]

646 is a good design. I have the one with the rings on the nose. Without the rings, hopefully the boolit will be shorter to move the balance backwards towards the base. Cast it with various alloys on purpose. Determine up front which gun likes which alloy, and at which acceleration curve. The more antimony you have, the more super cleaning your barrel will receive assuming the same amount of tin for each batch. Shoot your worst barrel first, that one that seems to get dirty fastest. Use that gun before using the others, obtaining the optimum load that prolly will shoot equally in each gun (same case size). Shoot for 2100 fps at the least so the bags can be used as normally for condoms. Less than 2100 will require forearm holding in a heavy varmint bench gun to maintain half inch groups. Shoot 35K psi to maintain powder burn consistency. Adjust powder speed to get that desired pressure at 2100-2400. V-V powders are exceptionally clean, giving more rounds per barrel stroking. 35K-40K pressure WILL elongate your throat, so forget the idea of shooting lead to save your barrel. Yes, don't forget to use pistol primers. You tell us what you obtain between boolits and guns. ... felix

[BCall]

Did they remove the lube grooves from the nose of the 646 as well? I got one not that long ago and it has the grooves. I may have to get another if the grooves are gone. I have one 222 that it shoots well in sized to .224, but I think the bore on it is smaller as the nose on mine seems to cast a bit small. Just curious about the grooves and if anyone has gotten a mold without them. Thanks, Billy

[stephen perry]

Felix
You have really given 225646 a workout. I really want to use it in my 22-250 eventually. Haven't checked the twist in my 700 but I had a bad experience when shooting Sierra 52 & 53 bullets, my stand-bys in my Rem 722 in .222. The Rem 700 I bought used in 22-250 tumbled 18 out of 25 bullets at 100 yd. I've had a few wobblers in my time but this was a first for me watching 18 bullets go sideways through my target. My range officer buddie told me to call Sierra and ask for advice. Sierra explained that thin jackets like the the 52 and 53 do not stabilize well in a fast twist barrel like a 1-10 twist. I am used to 1-14 twist barrels in 22 cal. I always have great results with 225415 and 225462 Cast and any factory 52/53 jacketed bullets, I make 52 jacketed bullets on Rorschach dies for my BR 1-14/15 twist barrels.

I made the call to the Sierra tech guys they recommended Sierra 55grn Blitz and SPBT bullets. Their reasoning was the 55 grn bullets were of thicker jackets and will stabilize in faster twist 22 cal barrels. I loaded them same powder load and seating depth. The result was what I wanted round holes bout 1/2" groups at 100, about what I would expect out of a factory 22-250. This is why I want to cast 225646. If they cast 55grn with the bullets aero-dynamic shape I should be in business. I will use different lead/lino combinations till I get my desired results. Thanks for the small primer heads-up. My powders will be Unique, 4198, 4759, and Red Dot.

BCall
What do plan on doing with the nose grooves, rub in lube by hand. Nose grooves or not this bullet should shoot. Plan on using it is my .223 and my 22-250. Especially at ranges beyond 100 like out to 600. I shoot 200-600M rifle silohuette.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[BCall]

I've hand lubed the nose grooves, and I've tried them as cast. I haven't seen much difference, but I did not have much luck with anything but one 222. I think the nose is undersize on my mold, it hasn't done as well as other molds I have. I only cast them from WW mixed approx 9-1 with magnum lead shot. Mine cast more like 63 gr lubed and checked though, not 55. Billy

[stephen perry]

The 225646 mold states 55 grn. I won't know until I Cast with my brew. With my 22-250 63 grn would be fine. Never had much luck with accuracy with my .222 above 55 grn. My Berger 60 grn bullets shot well in my 22 PPC.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[StarMetal]

Perry,

What is the twist in your Model 700 22-250. I'm thinking it should be a 14 twist unless Rem made some special models like Savage does in 22-250.

What do you think Winchesters twist was in their 220 Swift? It was a 14 twist and it's claim to fame was 4000 fps or over which was achieved with the lighter bullets.

I can't see your Model 700 key holing bullets it that weight range unless they are starting to disintegrate because of high velocity.

I'm gathering information, not knocking what you have posted.

[stephen perry]

I prefer Stephen or Steve.

I'll run the test myself on twist but my understanding is that Remington made some 1-9 along with 1-14 twist 700 barrels for 22-250. If 1-14 the barrel would take any 52/53 at any velocity and still stabilize. Somewhere I have my target with 18 keyholed bullets in about a 4" spread. Like I said now the 700 barrel shoots fine with the Sierra 55 Blitz/SPBT bullets, not a fluke the real deal.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[felix]

Steve, 4198 at 19 grains start with a mild rifle primer until you get the load into about an inch. You have to get that 22-250 to do that before going to other combinations. Boolit adjustment, powder volume adjustment, primer adjustment. ... felix

[stephen perry]

I like 4198 , have most of an 8# keg of IMR that I ran in my .222 for BR.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

[StarMetal]

I prefer Stephen or Steve.

I'll run the test myself on twist but my understanding is that Remington made some 1-9 along with 1-14 twist 700 barrels for 22-250. If 1-14 the barrel would take any 52/53 at any velocity and still stabilize. Somewhere I have my target with 18 keyholed bullets in about a 4" spread. Like I said now the 700 barrel shoots fine with the Sierra 55 Blitz/SPBT bullets, not a fluke the real deal.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

Like I said I wasn't knocking what you posted. I'll tell you of a test I've done. I pulled some bullets from 22 Magnum rimfire cartridges. They were 40 grain Winchester hollow points. I loaded them in my 223 cases and fired them out of my pre ban Colt HBAR with the 7 twist at well over 3100 fps. The didn't blow up and they didn't key hole. My friend and I were surprised.

I'm scratching my head as to why those bullets you posted won't stabilize in your 700. Have you had a chance to check the twist in that rifle yet?

Have you tried the Hornady 53 grain match hollow point in it? I've shot lots of those mainly from my Model 70 Win Varminter at 3300 fps (chronographed) with a 12 twist and it shoots them exceptionally well. Although a target bullet they take groundhogs really nice even at far distances.

I wish I had some of the Sierra bullets you speak of to try in my 7 twist Colt.

It will be interesting to see what that 55 grain cast will do and I'm looking forward to it.

[felix]

The didn't blow up and they didn't key hole. My friend and I were surprised.
.

I am surprised you specifically were surprised, Joe.

[StarMetal]

I am surprised you specifically were surprised, Joe.

I was because those are super thin jackets and with the velocity and fast twist why they didn't do something crazy. More so they shot a decent group.

What do you think?

[felix]

Short and light projectiles are easy to acellerate without regard to direction. It would be nice if that characteristic would happen only in the barrel and be the exact opposite in effect after the projectile left the barrel, wouldn't? ... felix

[StarMetal]

Short and light projectiles are easy to acellerate without regard to direction. It would be nice if that characteristic would happen only in the barrel and be the exact opposite in effect after the projectile left the barrel, wouldn't? ... felix


I would think being a 22 mag rim fire bullet that the spin and velocity both would be enough to destroy it or at least mess up the stabilization of it, but it didn't.

So what do you think is going on with the Sierra bullets in Perry's 700? Going too fast maybe?

[felix]

Gotta' be bullet fit, Joe. Just why, I have no idea. Cracked, or seriously out of round throat? Could easily involve the lands. Any sharp edge can cut a jacket to shreads. Why that? Someone could have cleaned the barrel with a non-standard grit before he got the gun. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Gotta' be bullet fit, Joe. Just why, I have no idea. Cracked, or seriously out of round throat? Could easily involve the lands. Any sharp edge can cut a jacket to shreads. Why that? Someone could have cleaned the barrel with a non-standard grit before he got the gun. ... felix

There you go Felix. Kind of along the lines I was thinking. I thought surely a 9 twist and 12 twist would handle 52-53 grain bullets. I know Sierra does rate their bullets as to what velocity not to exceed with them.

Who knows, maybe the barrel has had lots of rounds through it.

[felix]

Somebody has a bore scope in his BR gun club, surely, don't you think? That barrel deserves a looksee. The question becomes "what to do with it". There has to be more than a few 700 takeoff barrels he can swap with in that environment of his. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Somebody has a bore scope in his BR gun club, surely, don't you think? That barrel deserves a looksee. The question becomes "what to do with it". There has to be more than a few 700 takeoff barrels he can swap with in that environment of his. ... felix

Yes I would think someone in the club would have one. He did say he bought the rifle used I believe. Heck the throat may be shot out of it. You're right about all the barrels out there too and he could go with a custom of his choice and choice of twist also....especially for cast.

[stephen perry]

My smith in Arizona has a bore scope. Will see him in September. If he brings the bore scope we can take a look. I have no affection for 52/53 bullets in a 22-250. If the 700 is a 1-9 twist that is better for me as I can shoot some 80 grn Hornady bullets. My other smith, local, shot the first 50x50 in Varmint silohuette 200-600M at Pala Range with a 22 wildcat based on a 22-250 case using the Hornady 80 grn bullets.

Like I said I have a .222 and a .223 that I shoot plenty of 52/53 bullets in and 225438,225415, and 225462 Cast. Now I will be getting 225646 probably use it in the .223 and the 22-250.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR