Carbide sizer issues...AAAARRGH!

[squirrellnuttz]

I had just installed a 9mm conversion kit on my Square Deal B, brand new kit, virtually brand new press, when i started having trouble. The press ran slick and perfect with .38 Special kit using nickel plated brass. So i put on the new kit, start adjusting dies and that, and start a small run to test. Out of 80 rounds, I had 4 cases stuck in the sizer, ripped the rim off. What a pain!!!

I am using once fired range brass (only the odd nickel Plated in there, tumbled and sorted by make. Trouble is, when it sticks in the die, you gotta stop, pull of the powder measure, pull the decapper, drift the stuck case out, etc. That sucks. The shellholder lip also now has a couple small dings/ chews around the area that contacts the rim (of the rimless cartridge I know, I know!). I have polished these up as best as possible. I have also cleaned the die and applied an bit of imperial die wax to the interior of the sizer in prep for the next attempt.Maybe the solution is to lube the odd case in the process, I dunno, one in ten cases get the lube, just to give the die a wee bit of lube?

Also having issues with getting a consistant OAL using my 124 gr. cast (lyman) boolit. Always seems to be 1.112 or 1.111 when I am going for 1.110", I've tried adjusting the dies, but am having an issue jut getting consistency. Again, no issue at all with the .38 Spec. Kit on the press.

I am an absolute noob when it comes to both pistol cartridge reloading and the use of a progressive, so if anyone has any thoughts on dealing with these issues, input would be greatly appreciated.Thanks guys.:killingpc

[1hole]

"OAL using my 124 gr. cast (lyman) boolit. Always seems to be 1.112 or 1.111 when I am going for 1.110""

From a realistic point of view, 1.112/1.113" IS 1.110".

Perhaps you would have better sizing luck if you back the die off about 1/8th inch.

[elk hunter]

When using a carbide sizing die I bulk lube all my pistol cases prior to loading by putting a small amount of powdered laundry soap, not detergent, in an old eight pound cardboard powder container and shaking the container for a few seconds. The thin film of soap works as a lubricant and is easy to remove by running the loaded rounds for a short time in a vibratory cleaner using ground corn cob.

[mike in co]

When using a carbide sizing die I bulk lube all my pistol cases prior to loading by putting a small amount of powdered laundry soap, not detergent, in an old eight pound cardboard powder container and shaking the container for a few seconds. The thin film of soap works as a lubricant and is easy to remove by running the loaded rounds for a short time in a vibratory cleaner using ground corn cob.

well i guess i would do two things........

call dillon service line....
and

call dillon service line

you need NO LUBE on a 9mm CARBIDE sizing die...its why its carbide.

fix the problem, not the symptom.

call dillon..

[billyb]

I have a 650. Using Dillon dies in 9mm-38-357&40 S&W I started getting scratched brass. I contacted Dillon and they said to clean the dies with Hoppe's to remove the built up brass that had accumlated in the carbide sizers.And it would help to prevent this from happing again to lube your cases before sizeing. I tumble my cases before sizing and use some old media to remove the lube after sizing. On my 650 I size my cases then tumble them. I set up later and load 2-3 thousand rounds of what ever pistol ammo I need at the time. Bill

[Crash_Corrigan]

Cleaning of the brass prior to sizing and such is very important. Corn cob with Nu Finish wax really keeps them clean and the wax does not hurt when reloading.

My Square Deal press came set up from the previous owner for .45 ACP but I wanted to load 9 MM. I just changed out the toolhead and the priming stuff from large to small primers and I was good to go.

I did a few dummy rounds and made some adjustments as he was apparently using condom bullets and I was using cast 125 and 131 gr HP boolits.

I kept a barrel from one of my 9's handy and used that as a case gauge to ensure proper chambering and function etc. I have no idea of the OAL of the round as I am going on fitting the boolit with the case and such into the chamber of the gun I am working with. Once that was done I made up a half dozen rounds using the same boolits and adjustments and just changing the amount of powder.

I found that in this case 3.3 gr of Unique worked just perfectly to give me full function of the firearm with decent accuracy but not excessive recoil. More powder did not increase the functionality of the gun nor increase the accuracy much but the recoil became bothersome to my SWMBO who has some medical issues with her right arm, elbow and wrist. Four gr of Unique was perfect for me but bothered her some so we load down to her comfort levels.

I have not had any problems with the Square Deal press at all. No sticking of cases in any of the dies and it functions perfectly for me. Again cleaning of the empties in a vibratory cleaner with corn cob and Nu Finish may help you.

[BCB]

I agree with mike in co on this one...

But something else to think about--Maybe the wrong shellholder and it is too big for the 9mm rim?

That might allow a few cases to have the rims pulled off or at least deformed enough to cause the case to stick in the die...

I have sized thousands and thousands of straight wall cases in carbide dies and never used one particle of lube. That's part of the reason for the carbide sizer insert...

Good-luck...BCB

[zuke]

Shoulda bought a LEE :kidding:

[squirrellnuttz]

Shoulda bought a LEE :kidding:

Umm.....no.


But seriously folks,


I'm gonna give her another go ASAP. The shellholder being used is the one from the factory supplied (brand new) 9mm conversion kit. I had tumbled (vibratory) all brass in walnut media with a capful of Nu Finish prior to sorting and loading.
A trick I read on here and had to try out. I had cleaned the die out after each stoppage, no real gummies or grit to be had, only between round #0 and # 60 or 80 did these sticking cases happen. Brand new clean die. The shellolder is a bit chewed, I may order another, though it does not look bad, something fishy goin on.


The laundry detergent bulk lube might be good, except the part about tumbling live rounds.A bad plan, as far as I know, as the powder may get finer or broken down through the tumble, and cause a pressure spike. I'm gonna give Dillon a call if I still have grief.

[mike in co]

Umm.....no.


But seriously folks,


I had tumbled (vibratory) all brass in walnut media with a capful of Nu Finish prior to sorting and loading.
.
well there is your problem , right there....walnut media!

i load a ton of pistol rounds..but it is all polished in corn cob, fine ground corn cob with nufinish car polish.
( ok thats probably not the issue...but loook anyway)
is the brass bright and shinny ? does it come back out of the die at least as shinny ?

is the bowl of the tumbler near full ? 3/4 full of media then add brass.

you brass should be near new in finish in one hour....

[sagacious]

The shellolder is a bit chewed, I may order another, though it does not look bad, something fishy goin on.
Fishy for sure.

Your resizing die is the scapegoat. It sounds as if your four 'stuck' cases that had the rims torn off, were stuck..... because the rims were torn off, and not the other way around.

Your shellholder may be out-of-spec. Some manufacturers cut the holder with as much tolerance as possible to allow the case some play as it aligns with the resizer-- and that usually works well. But if the shellholder is over-spec by a little bit, or is "chewed," then the shellholder is likely to blame for ripping off rims. The steel shellholder should not get chewed from the brass. Something's not right with your shellholder.

That the carbide resizing die might be out-of-spec is less likely than the shellholder being out-of-spec. Tumble-cleaned 9mm cases should neither stick nor require lube in a carbide resizer. Verify that your case holder is correct. Those four stuck cases may also have had small rims. Good luck.

[Daddyfixit]

I've loaded countless rounds on my 550, I clean with walnut shell then load em. I sometimes get in a hurry to go blamming and don't clean em at all...never had any problems. The square deal machine should have no problems. Shell holder issue? adjustment? goofy die? somethings not right.. I to say CALL DILLON!

[azcruiser]

you wont like this but just lube the cases.Machine will run smoother your brass wont get longer
and will last longer .When you run the brass through the carbide die without first cleaning it you should lube.brass builds up dirt and ****.

[JimKirk]

the part about tumbling live rounds.A bad plan, as far as I know, as the powder may get finer or broken down through the tumble, and cause a pressure spike

See this link it should help you out .....
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=530645

Jim K

[376Steyr]

I'll throw another wrinkle in here. You said you were using once-fired range brass. Were the stuck cases all the same headstamp? Maybe you have some strange stuff (steel cases? odd military that looks like 9mm Luger but isn't?) mixed in the batch.

[azcruiser]

pick up brass can be a problem old sten gun brass mp 5 brass ect

[7of7]

Even with carbide dies, I still spray them with dry lube.. Hornady's one shot... It cuts down the effort significantly..

[Horace]

Was the brass from china?

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi
I don't know about every carbide die out there but I have a Pacific 9mm carbide die. I have to lightly lube the cases or I have problems. The 9mm case isn't straight walled ,its tapered. My die dosn't just have a carbide ring .It has a insert thats is the whole length of the case and also is tapered. The friction build up is just too much without a least some lube being used. Very little is needed.Just a fingerprint of lube is plenty. Perhaps the wax some of you use to tumble with would be good enough as is.
I also have a RCBS 30cal carbine die. Its carbide and you have to lube the cases for that too. Its also a long tapered case and so is the carbide sizer. There is no carbide ring in either die. I have carbide sizers for my 38spl and 45acp .They have rings
n.h.schmidt

[Throckmorton]

for ease of sizing,I lube just the top portion of every tenth case. I lube them all at once and just grab one now and then.I don't HAVE to do this,but it sure makes it easier on the arm.
It's so little lube I don't bother wiping it off most times.But it sure helps


I also suspect it's the cases,and not the die.

[mike in co]

Hi
I don't know about every carbide die out there but I have a Pacific 9mm carbide die. I have to lightly lube the cases or I have problems. The 9mm case isn't straight walled ,its tapered. My die dosn't just have a carbide ring .It has a insert thats is the whole length of the case and also is tapered. The friction build up is just too much without a least some lube being used. Very little is needed.Just a fingerprint of lube is plenty. Perhaps the wax some of you use to tumble with would be good enough as is.
I also have a RCBS 30cal carbine die. Its carbide and you have to lube the cases for that too. Its also a long tapered case and so is the carbide sizer. There is no carbide ring in either die. I have carbide sizers for my 38spl and 45acp .They have rings
n.h.schmidt

in your case you are probably correct.

but

most dies only have a short insert...so no lube.

if you lube, you have to de-lube...slows the process/adds more work.

mike in co

[63 Shiloh]

OK, another approach; when you have the ram and shellplate at the top of the stroke gently start lowering the the shellplate.

Is the case in station 2, your powder die, sticking?

Have you made sure that you have got the powder die conversion, they are specific to calibre, in the die body?
The .38 won't work well with the 9mm, I have done this myself.

Another thing to consider with the powder die, take it out of the die body. Look at where the end of it bells the case mouth; any damage? If it all looks good, take some 1000 grit wet and dry to it. You are just polishing it with the wet and dry, helps with new brass especially.

See if it helps?


Mike