Help -G-3 Cetme brass cleaning?

[broomhandle]

Hi Guys,

I am looking for a better way to clean my fluted 308 brass!
As you know the rifle has flutes cut in the chamber to help extraction!
It works well & the rifle is accurate!

My problem is cleaning the brass to some where near clean!:|
The brass has to run at least twice as long as a regular case to clean it about 1/2 as well!

I was hopeing someone has a trick or two to help me with this problem.

Dirty cases are harder to size & can ruin my dies.
I have tried some New Finish (orange bottle), mineral sprits along with the normal Dillon polish to help lift the soot & tarnish with little success.:veryconfu

Thanks for any help,
broom

[Wayne Smith]

Check out the Citric Acid sticky thread. I think that's the answer to your question. It's up at Shooters.com.

[randyrat]

Before i had a tumbler, I used Vinegar, water and a little soap. Put that 50-50 mix in a coffee can add a touch of dish soap. Then i would shake like heck and let it soak for an hour and shake some more.
Rinse in hot water real good and dry in the sun for a good day or more. POP the primers out and dry some more.
An hour in the mix will not weaken your brass.

[mike in co]

Hi Guys,

I am looking for a better way to clean my fluted 308 brass!
As you know the rifle has flutes cut in the chamber to help extraction!
It works well & the rifle is accurate!

My problem is cleaning the brass to some where near clean!:|
The brass has to run at least twice as long as a regular case to clean it about 1/2 as well!

I was hopeing someone has a trick or two to help me with this problem.

Dirty cases are harder to size & can ruin my dies.
I have tried some New Finish (orange bottle), mineral sprits along with the normal Dillon polish to help lift the soot & tarnish with little success.:veryconfu

Thanks for any help,
broom
you did not tell use what you are currently doing...
type of machine, media....how big, how much.....

mike in co

[Dale53]

I competed in IPSC matches including rifle for five years. My rifle of choice was a German HK-91 (.308) with the "dreaded" fluted chamber. I shot ALL reloads. I just let them tumble until clean. My favorite polish, now, is Dillon's. My tumbling media is/was ground corn cobs.

I had a Dillon press at the time and loaded a thousand at a time. In spite of the "fluted" brass, it seemed to last quite well and the combination shot VERY well.

FWIW
Dale53

[broomhandle]

Hi Fellows,

Thanks for the feed back! I bookmarked the posts!
I had about 90- 100 Winchester white box 7.62/308 rounds that came with the rifle deal.
That was the ammo I shot up, it was filthy!:mad: As I mentioned it took forever to get them some near clean!

I just loaded up100 rounds a few days ago, with surplus 4895.
I used 50 147 grain bullets & 50 174 grain match bullets. The cases look like great [smilie=p:I don't have that black soot problem at all!

Now to order a few 1000 pulled military ball. Who is the best company to go to now?

I'm going to save my new match bullets for serious matchs & not the informal plinking I normally do at the range.

Again, Thanks for your help,
broom

[broomhandle]

you did not tell use what you are currently doing...
type of machine, media....how big, how much.....

Hi Mike,

I use a Dillon 550B to load, but size & trim FIRST in my old Rock Chucker.

Dillon small tumbler - Half & half corn cob & walnut shells Dillon polish with the
Nu Finish & some mineral sprits (added to cut the black ****).
About 110 total 308 cases.
Thats all the cases I have loaded.

I have about 100 Cadvim cases from deal with a poster here, that I misplaced .. just found them again. I will try to locate some more(308 /7.62) cases as soon as I can get more hobby cash together.

If you read my last post about my problem...
Looks like it was the NEW Winchester white box ammo I was using, it was NATO marked ... but it was a filthy black sticky sooty mess. I had tried dish soap with little sucess too! I'm not joking!:???:

Best to you,
broom

[Storydude]

The fluted chamber should only be putting soot on the cases. If you can actually FEEL the grunge, increase powder charge slightly. The case needs to obuterate to seal FIRST, then the pressure blowback forces the brass back off the chamber walls.

My biggest G3/CETME problem is that it tries to fold the brass in half then fling it 60 feet away.

[Lloyd Smale]

i allways went the other way. Back the loads off till your shooting a 150 at about 24-2500 fps and the groves go away and you can actually find some of your brass. the cetme wasnt meant to be shoot will full power 308 loads anyway and youll find backing them off cures most of the ills with the gun like pealing brass in half.

[Storydude]

i allways went the other way. Back the loads off till your shooting a 150 at about 24-2500 fps and the groves go away and you can actually find some of your brass. the cetme wasnt meant to be shoot will full power 308 loads anyway and youll find backing them off cures most of the ills with the gun like pealing brass in half.

Also, depends on brass type. My advice is for .Mil brass ONLY. Commercial .308 DOES need powder charge dropped slighlty.

I'd caution about firing 308 out of a 7.62Nato designed CETME. They have a nasty habit of shattering trunnions and losing boltgap FAST.

[looseprojectile]

Shattering trunions?? Nasty habit?? More, more.

Life is good

[Storydude]

The CETME was initally built around a lower powered round than 7.62Nato. When Spain joined nato, they re-designed the CETME for 762 nato, which we all know is loaded at a lighter pressure and velocity than standard commercial 308 is now.

A steady diet of 308, in bullet weights above 160Grain WILL shatter the trunnion due to chamber stretch and the trunnion not holding the pressure back.(worst case)

Best case is your bolt gap will last about 100 rounds, then be below spec. replace rollers and 100 rnds later, it'll be back to .004 or below.
\
The gun wasn;t designed for ANY 308 load, and just barely for the 762 load.


I built one a few years back. Ran over 1000 rnds of surplus through it with no problem, bolt gap a steady .016"

Traded it and dude shattered the trunnion in under 20 shots. 180G corelok's. After the 18th shot, the cocking tube blew forward, barrel blew forward 20 thou, and trunnion cracked in 3 places.

Mine's not the first I've heard of KB'ing and as long as people keep feeding 308 into X51 CETME's, it'll still keep happening.

[looseprojectile]

Ok so it was a homebuilt.

[Storydude]

Ok so it was a homebuilt.

Annnd, that has what to do with anything?

Hey, you can have your new Century gun with ground bolt, false bolt gap, improper cocking tube gap, worn rollers and improperly, downright dangerous improperly pressed barrels.

I just find it funny that after 1000 documented rounds(documented because I bought 1K surplus at the time I bought the kit ) it took 18 rnds of a commercial 308 hunting load to make it fail. Bolt gap at time of sale was .016. WELL within the spec of .004-.020"

the Rifle was designed around a 147G projectile moving at 2200-2400 FPS.

Toss a 180G Corelok moving at 2600FPS, is it a surprise it detonated?

I'd take my builds over ANY century gun thank you.

[looseprojectile]

That would be my point.
I would expect any load of a 180 grain bullet at 2,600 fps to be an overload in the .308W or the 7.62X51 N. You are in 30 06 territory. To get that velocity in the .308 you would have to be using a full case of medium burning rate powder. Therefore way too much pressure. A max load of Varget barely makes 2,500 fps with the 180 grain bullet. Factory 180 grain loads shouldn't blow up the gun but will be hard on brass. I find they are mostly in the 2,400 fps range in an 18 - 20" barrel.
A correctly built CETME will survive very high pressures if the timing is near correct. Are you sure that you did not embrittle the trunion quenching the receiver after welding? New trunion or used? Lots of questions.
As this is off topic you could PM me as I would like to hear more specifics on the CETME that came apart. Have not ever heard of that before. I have assisted building more than a dozen and I hate to think I made a face grenade for someone.

Life is good

[mike in co]

That would be my point.
I would expect any load of a 180 grain bullet at 2,600 fps to be an overload in the .308W


sorry to be the one to tell you but it aint even close.

a 180 in a 308 win in a 24" bbl with blc2 at 42 gr is 57kpsi( under the 308 win 60+kpsi limit) and is right at 2600fps.......
and 41 gr of imr4895 is only 55kpsi at 2600.....


lots of powders will make that velocity in a 308 win without danger/over load

mike in co

[looseprojectile]

CETMEs have short barrels. 2 - 4" makes a difference.
None of my loading manuals go over 2,545 with any load. [180 in .308].[22"].
My point is the gun is strong. The cartridge case is the weak point in CETMEs.
I just fixed a CETME the other day that had a case separation and I straightened it out and gave the owner a magazine full of US GI ammo and it runs perfectly on it. Some ammo should never be fired in a roller gun. If it don't have the NATO mark on it, yada, yada.
I have always heeded the advice found on the forums that cater to CETMEs to not load ammo hot for them.
I have shot more than five thousand rounds of Portugese 7.62X51 ammo alone through several CETMEs. Was $42.50 a thousand, free shipping.
Never a hicup.

Life is good

[mike in co]

yes but YOUR comment said 308 win........not cetme.....the paragraph says 308 win, 7.62x51 and 30'06............

"I would expect any load of a 180 grain bullet at 2,600 fps to be an overload in the .308W or the 7.62X51 N."
it does not say an over load of 2600 with a 180 in a cetme......
which i why i pointed out that 2600 with a 180 is easy in a 308 win....

let it pass...

mike in co

[Storydude]

yes but YOUR comment said 308 win........not cetme.....the paragraph says 308 win, 7.62x51 and 30'06............

"I would expect any load of a 180 grain bullet at 2,600 fps to be an overload in the .308W or the 7.62X51 N."
it does not say an over load of 2600 with a 180 in a cetme......
which i why i pointed out that 2600 with a 180 is easy in a 308 win....

let it pass...

mike in co

You have Remington's pressure levels for Core-Lok hunting rounds?

Matters not. With X51 surplus, the gun lasted many many rounds. 18 rounds of 308 corelok fresh out of the box shattered the trunnion.

Brand new trunnion, Brand new Santabarbra barrel, new Model C bolt/carrier and locking piece, 0 rollers. Bolt gap was set at .018 at time of build, settled down to .016 and stayed there to 1000 rnds. I"ll admit when sold it probably was .0155" .016" feeler had almost zero drag on empty chamber, hammer down.


New owner "said" he went to cableas, got some .308 180G remington SP off the shelf, loaded a mag, fired 18, and he felt the gun get "loose" Went to clear it and the trunnion had shattered in a line vertically with the bore, and the locking recesses fractured off the meat of the trunnion.

When he demilled it, my welds were still firmly attached to the receiver pieces left. No cracking evident from tempering the trunnion.


Was it a .308 ammo problem? Was it a squib? Was it a flawed Trunnion? Was it his "super secret zombie round", we'll never know for sure.

As I personally put a bunch of surplus through it with zero issues, I'd blame ammo myself.

this is not the ONLY one I"ve heard of blowing up, and like he said above, with the proper bolt gap, brass and lockup, the gun can survive to burst pressure of the brass.

My other 2 CETME's only get fed X51 and will continue now even more firmly....As will my new kit I just got :)

[mike in co]

ok but..........
again you mentioned 308 win....not how stock factory loads would damage a cetme.

i do not disagree that x load may/will damage a cetme.


that is all i'm saying...i'm not trying to get into the middle of a cetme discussion..only one comment about 308 win/180/2600 fps being an overload....and it aint...thats all.

please continue with the cetme discussion....

[Storydude]

ok but..........
again you mentioned 308 win....not how stock factory loads would damage a cetme.

i do not disagree that x load may/will damage a cetme.


that is all i'm saying...i'm not trying to get into the middle of a cetme discussion..only one comment about 308 win/180/2600 fps being an overload....and it aint...thats all.

please continue with the cetme discussion....

Obviously it's not an overload in a 308 chambered weapon.
But in a X51 chambered weapon it sure as hell is.


Same thing with 5.56 LC and .223 remington. Neither are overloaded IN THE CHAMBERING THEY ARE OFFERED FOR. Drop a 5.56 into a .223 chamber, it can show overpressure due to different chambers.

Same thng with Garands and any ammo OTHER than USGI Ball ammo.