mini ball help

[Phat Man Mike]

well I cast for other pistols and rifles in the homestead, what thing's should I do to cast a good mini ball for a black powder rifle? sure don't need any mess up's :shock:

[Nick10Ring]

It's basically the same as other casting. You do need pure lead, no alloys. I smoke my molds with a candle to get a coating of soot on them. This seems to help the cavities fill out. I cast round ball and Maxi for my .54 TC Renegade and get great bullets.

Nick10Ring

[JeffinNZ]

You do need pure lead, no alloys. Nick10Ring

That lead used depends on the usage. For heavier loads pure lead will likely not suffice and you might need 40-1 or 20-1 lead/tin.

I have a .40cal Minie bullet, cute little 124gr fella. I cast in 40-1 and get great accuracy over 30gr Swiss 3Fg at 1500fps.

[405]

Well, true hollow base minie's are a little different than conical slugs. I don't think you can screw up other than poor accuracy. Getting accuracy on par with say a well tuned patched roundball shooter can be frustrating. 1st thing to do would be get an idea of bore diameter and twist rate. The easiest, cheapest way to get good cast minies is with one of the Lee molds. I think the Lee "improved minie" mold to be one of the easiest to use and get high quality castings from the get-go, but the skirts are a little thin for heavier charges. If you have a truly oversize bore the RCBS North-South design is a good one.

Then, if you are lucky and the whole shebang comes together-- accuracy can be had. Definitions of accuracy vary greatly so who knows about that. I have caplocks and flintlocks that can shoot patched roundballs consistently into 1/2 to 1 inch groups at 50 yards. I've found minies, Maxis and other varieties of conicals to be a little more ornery sometimes.

[mooman76]

Sometimes those bigger capacity mould like the ladle more. Otherwise you have already gotten good advice here. Not big trick to it. Sometomes you get a little wing tip on your hollow base. just file it off.

[RBak]

FWIW; I have found over the years that casting a good / accurate Minie had more to do with the mold itself than anything else.
To me, and perhaps it's only me, but the base-pin in the mold is quite often the problem. If the skirt is too thin the Minie will never be accurate, if the skirt is to thick you loose the benefits offered by a Minie.

The best, out of the box, Minie I have ever found for pure lead is the Lyman 575213PH...the skirt is nice and thick and if I do my part in casting, the Minie is going to shoot good.

In fact, many years ago, right here on this forum, I was amazed to learn of the itty bitty charges the competition shooters were using to get such great results. I was equally amazed to find out the main reason they used these small charges was to prevent blowing the skirt on the Minie.

Jeff in NZ touched on something very important about your alloy...if you are using, or feel you need a heavy charge, then the skirt on the Minie should be able to stand up to it.
In other words, small charges, soft lead, heavy charges will require a harder lead and this takes experimenting in your own rifle, lots of experimenting!

To me, it's mostly "all about the skirt" when shooting a Minie.

Russ

[Hellgate]

You want the lead to be real HOT. Otherwise you will get voids in the skirt and at the apex of the hollow base (at the tip of the base pin). You will probably toss the first ten casts back into the pot. Also i weigh each minie afterwards and sort them by weight. The light ones are for remelt of fouling shots because whether you can see a void or not there is probably a bubble there. You will get a bell shaped surve of weights. The tallest rows of weights will be in the middle or toward the heavy side and those will be the most accurate.

[Southron Sanders]

Couple of hints in casting Mini Balls:

1. Pure lead is best because it is "soft." A small amount of Tin added into the pot will make casting Minie Balls easier as they will fill out the mould better and give you less rejects.
2. Excessively heavy charges (70+) grains are self defeating because the skirt will expand too much once it leaves the muzzle. This plays H*** with accuracy.
3. Weigh ALL of your Minie Balls-remelt the 'light" ones as they have hidden air pockets.
4. Use a good lube. 60% beeswax and 40% Bore Butter makes a great lube.
5. I 'hot dip" my Minie Balls in melted lube and then sit them on a sheet of aluminum foil for the lube to cool and solidify.
Ideally, a Minie BAll should be only 1 to 2 thousands of an inch UNDER bore diameter for best accuracy.

Hope this helps!

[JeffinNZ]

Ideally, a Minie BAll should be only 1 to 2 thousands of an inch UNDER bore diameter for best accuracy.

Interestingly my Lyman 39538 mould throws at .396 in 40/1 alloy. I paper patch it to .403 for my Colerain barrel with a .400 bore and it shoots like a HOUSE ON FIRE.

[missionary5155]

Good morning Phat Man Mike
Does your rifle have a fast enought twist ?... That is step ONE. I did not see a twist rate anywear. My Old Zoli Zuoave .58 NEVER would shoot a Mini straight.. It has a 1-66 twist. But will it ever launch a .57 RB with 85 grains 2F.
If your "Stuffer" is one of them New types you are most likely OK But is would be good to know the twist up front...
Mike in Peru

[ResearchPress]

My Old Zoli Zuoave .58 NEVER would shoot a Mini straight.. It has a 1-66 twist.
The P/53 Enfield had 1 in 78 rifling and was designed for the Minie bullet, so 1 in 66 should be OK. If you weren't getting satisfactory results, maybe there was another cause than the rifling twist?

Others have mentioned small charges and skirts being blown with 'big charges'. The service load for the Enfield with Minie bullet was 2.5 drams (68.5 grains). I use 75 grains of a FFg equivalent out to 600 yards in my original Enfield with good results (ie. win matches). For occassional forays to 800 yards I up the charge to 85 grains. My bullet is an RCBS Minie, shallow base, and pure lead.

Long range shooting with the Enfield does not seem to be practiced much outside of the UK in so far as I know.

David

[missionary5155]

Howdy ResearchPress
I tried loads from 50 -80 grains of 2F GOEX... Then Itried a thicker skirt. I tried up to 5 % tin.. I tried undersized and very tight fit... Nothing would stay within 5 " at 50 yards. Then I reversed to the RB and a .57 with a thick snug patch starting with 60 grains 2F. 3 " at 50 yards. And finally 80 grains gave a near cloverleaf with 5 shots. 85 grains was just as good but 90 grains began to blow open.
Could well be the barrel... but I still suggest people check twist before trying minies.. The smaller calibers have a LONGER projectile to spin and that is where the faster twist needs to be.

[ResearchPress]

I've never really had any desire to shoot PRB from a military rifle designed for the Minie bullet.... but that's obviously personal preference. I get good accuracy at 50m offhand and prone at 100 to 600 yards. My interest is target shooting by the way.

Rifles designed for the Minie bullet (here I refer to military rifles generally around .58 cal) have shallow rifling. In fact the Enfields had progressive depth rifling, where the grooves get shallower towards the muzzle. Shooting patched round ball people need be aware of the potential for jumping the rifling.

For those interested in the Enfield or similar see: Managing the Enfield (http://www.researchpress.co.uk/firearms/british/enfield/management.htm) on my web site.

David

[Phat Man Mike]

:castmine: well the first ten or so where thrown back for remelt! I sent the lil woman to the hardware store for some tin solder !! I'm getting the mix hot and giving it another try today!:violin:

[mooman76]

Crank the heat up all the way. I add a few WWs to raize the tin level up.

[58cal]

In fact the Enfields had progressive depth rifling, where the grooves get shallower towards the muzzle. Shooting patched round ball people need be aware of the potential for jumping the rifling.

David[/QUOTE]



From what I have read on different forums, it seems most people are not familiar with progressive depth rifling.

Yes, I've tried the patch and round ball out of my .58 (.577) Enfield, Parker Hale pattern 1858, 2 band naval, 33" barrel, 1 in 48 twist, 5 groove Progressive depth rifling,....... (.005 to .013, In the 33" barrel)
That was the first year for progressive depth rifling in the Enfield.

.570 rb and .015 patch gives me +.0065 patch compression in the grooves at the muzzle and, well, -.0015 at the breech Had to use the short starter and mallet to load at the muzzle, not sure how I was fairly accurate at 50 yds that one time.
I would guess 60g of FFg to be the max if, I ever try it again to use up the rb's.
Like you said the guns made to shoot minies.


I'm really trying to find the best store bought minie for my rifle and I have some .5758 swaged, smooth sided, pritchett style 530g minies from Dixie Guns works.
I'd really like to have this minie work for me, considering it's swaged and a good size.
I've read where one guy had good results with the pritchett when coated with liquid Alox.
Also ordered some 575213PH 566g minies from S/S Firearms I'm going to try after I lube and size.

The instruction book that came with the gun calls for 50-70g of FFg.

I'm fairly new at this and just want to use my Enfield for target practice and hunting at 50 yds or less.

Because of the deep progressive depth of the rifling, am I better off with the lighter charge and thin skirt as opposed to a thick skirt heavy charge?

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, from a greenhorn.







I've never really had any desire to shoot PRB from a military rifle designed for the Minie bullet.... but that's obviously personal preference. I get good accuracy at 50m offhand and prone at 100 to 600 yards. My interest is target shooting by the way.

Rifles designed for the Minie bullet (here I refer to military rifles generally around .58 cal) have shallow rifling. In fact the Enfields had progressive depth rifling, where the grooves get shallower towards the muzzle. Shooting patched round ball people need be aware of the potential for jumping the rifling.

For those interested in the Enfield or similar see: Managing the Enfield (http://www.researchpress.co.uk/firearms/british/enfield/management.htm) on my web site.

David

[idahoron]

When I am making any muzzleloader bullets I like to add about 1000 grains of lead shot to 10 pounds of pure. It helps to fill out the mould. Lately I have been adding enough to bump the hardness just a pinch. On my Cabine tree hardness tester my target hardness is .032 to .038 on the dial. That gives me a minie that shoots very well paper patched out of my 45 cal. Ron

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/316grMinie100yardsinfoadded.jpg

[Baron von Trollwhack]

There is a great deal of difference between the military musket shooting the minie' with BP and a RB gun using a hollow base, paper patched slug. BvT