Largest diameter bullet you can use in a 30-06?

[JT95]

Hi im new to the Forum and have a question for y'all.
I bought a Lee .309 180 GC mould a while back and have since found out that i dont want to use gas checks and would rather have flat based as the bullets will be used for slow practice rounds, so i got my file out and shaved down the GC "bump" (for lack of real term) inside the mold, After casting a few boolits i got out my calipers and to my dissmay i filed too much off and now have a base diameter of .312- .315:-( I know i am very Stupid for even trying this but a mans gotta try. Are these safe to shoot at 1000-1300 fps in a .308 diameter bolt action.

Oh yea almost forgot to tell you that i dont have a sizer and i lube them in a "cookie cutter" fashion.

[Trey45]

What does the rifle slug at? Have you slugged the rifle in question?

[Suo Gan]

I don't know why you would get the notion that gas checks are a bad thing. They were an innovation in technology, like moving from flintlock to percussion caps, or from round balls to a minie. Gas checks are a good thing, even when shooting slow they can be effective, but often not necessary. What people normally do is shoot 'em and see. It is too bad that you did not just shoot them as they were cast without the gas check to see if they would work at your load/speed. Then went from there.

What I would do is try to shoot them as they cast from your mold, lube them with your cake cutter, whatever then shoot them. They might shoot alright, you never know esp. for plinking. But an errant file mark might mean an extra grain or two here, and grain or two there and that boolit will yaw and be out of balance.

Keep it as a reminder to be humble (been there and done that!)

[ETG]

There is no way you have a concentric base. The larger base will make loading harder and will probably result in low neck tension. Buy a Lee .309 sizer and run them through it - save yourself a lot of problems.

[JT95]

I have not slugged the rifle.

Suo Gan, i dont think GC are a bad thing i was just too cheap to buy them if the velocity was under 1300 fps.

Also my mold is a double caster and i only filed one and left the other alone so if worst comes to worst i will still have a mold it will just be a single.

[skeettx]

OK, here goes,

IF you can seat them in the case and IF the cartridge fits in the chamber, with your light load, all should be well.

If, however, you have to slam the bolt shut or really crank on it, then the bullet is too large in diameter and will need to be sized.

NOW, you never said what load you will be using. And you never said what rifle,
Please specify before continuing,

Mike

[JT95]

10.5 grn red dot, win case, CCI large rifle primer.
Remington 721 30-06

[ktw]

I don't know why you would get the notion that gas checks are a bad thing. They were an innovation in technology, like moving from flintlock to percussion caps, or from round balls to a minie.

I know some traditional muzzleloader hunters who would argue those weren't necessarily worthwhile technological advances, either. ;) All depends on your perspective.


Gas checks are a good thing, even when shooting slow they can be effective, but often not necessary.

Gas checks are good in the sense that they make shooting moderate to high velocities with cast easier, particularly in rifles. Easier is not necessarily everyone's highest priority. The logical extension to "easier" is to stop casting and just shoot jacketed bullets.

Some place a higher priority on dirt cheap practice ammo, others on climbing a challenging, technical learning curve. Both are examples of instances where gas checks aren't necessarily the solution.

-ktw

[mooman76]

Before you go any farther, I'd slug the barrel to se where you need to be. Then go from there. You can get a sizer that will round back out your bullet but you need to slug to see what size sizer you will need.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

A Lee push though sizer is like $15, and the whole mould with handles is about $20 . . . I'd get a sizer, but not sure if that will even things up if it is uneven, but then I also gather your not shooting any matches . . .

Hint . . . there is a postal match at the bottom . . . follow the link.

[nicholst55]

like moving from flintlock to percussion caps,

Percussion caps are just a passing fad. :kidding:

This, from a guy who thinks the term 'muzzleloader' indicates a (sidelock) flintlock, shooting a patched round ball, with real black powder!

[3006guns]

I "plain based" an 8mm mold, but I had the advantage of a lathe. I also had the disadvantage of not measuring correctly and my boring operation resulted in a .329-.330 base. Fortunately I stopped at that point. However, after running it through a .324 sizing die I have a 214 grain bullet that is fun to shoot, accurate and cheap with very modest recoil (this was a Lyman mold that was in poor shape, so I ended up with a useful product).

I admit I lucked out, but it showed me that such a modification is fairly easy. Even if you do a slightly ragged job of enlarging the sizing die will round everything up.

[Suo Gan]

I have not slugged the rifle.

Suo Gan, i dont think GC are a bad thing i was just too cheap to buy them if the velocity was under 1300 fps.

Also my mold is a double caster and i only filed one and left the other alone so if worst comes to worst i will still have a mold it will just be a single.

Hey, That is a good thing! Only a half mistake then. I am sure I have most people on this board beat when it comes to making mistakes...so no casting stones from me.

Well you need to slug your barrel and find your dimensions out :-). I am willing to bet that your fat based boolit will be fine for plinking within 50 yards. I doubt you had plans to shoot MOA groups at 100 yards with it anyway.

So slug it, size the boolit accordingly, and shoot it. Take care!

[geargnasher]

No need for a gas check OR mould modification for whay you're doing if you get good, clean, sharp fillout on the base band. The bottom edge of the base band acts just like a plain-based boolit, but is subject to the same issues with squareness so as to not get a wobble upon muzzle exit.

Check out this sticky: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=48857

Also, you might consider IMR Trailboss or Unique for what you're doing, lots of good published load data and they fill the case better than Red Dot, but Red Dot will work ok.

Like others have recommended, you should slug your barrel and get an accurate bore dimension, then size about one thousanth over that, I'll bet your dimension comes out to right at .308", so a Lee .309" push-through sizer might improve your accuracy and act as a quality-contol gauge in case you get a few boolits where the mould didn't close completely.

It is possible to create I high-pressure situation even with reduced loads if the boolit is too big and creates too tight of a fit between the case neck and chamber neck, but unless your boolits are pretty hard it's difficult to swell the neck of an '06 case enough to cause problems. Sizing is still recommended, though, for 15 bucks and three seconds per boolit you can greatly improve your loading experience and downrange results.

One more thing, what kind of case mouth expander die are you using? Lee makes a universal expander die that sells for around $10 that goes from 22 to 45 calibers, it's well worth the money. For all-out accuracy and performance with non-checked boolits, the Lyman "M" die for your caliber can't be beat.

Gear

[JT95]

"One more thing, what kind of case mouth expander die are you using? Lee makes a universal expander die that sells for around $10 that goes from 22 to 45 calibers, it's well worth the money. For all-out accuracy and performance with non-checked boolits, the Lyman "M" die for your caliber can't be beat."

I am not using a case mouth expander die, i just started casting and i have only shot about 20 rnds so far of my cast loads with no problems. i dont think i need one, plus i reload with a LEE classic loader with does not use dies. I think they are unnecessary for me.

I am unfamilliar with slugging a bore, what do i need to do that?

[Suo Gan]

I am unfamilliar with slugging a bore, what do i need to do that?

Look here:
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=57556&highlight=slug

[dualsport]

I know some traditional muzzleloader hunters who would argue those weren't necessarily worthwhile technological advances, either. ;) All depends on your perspective.



Gas checks are good in the sense that they make shooting moderate to high velocities with cast easier, particularly in rifles. Easier is not necessarily everyone's highest priority. The logical extension to "easier" is to stop casting and just shoot jacketed bullets.

Some place a higher priority on dirt cheap practice ammo, others on climbing a challenging, technical learning curve. Both are examples of instances where gas checks aren't necessarily the solution.

-ktw
Well said! I'm mostly a gc man myself, but I like your thinking. We do this for a lot of different reasons, one's as good as another. PB is where I'm heading, sooner or later, like you said, for the challenge. And because I am that cheap. Just out of curiosity, what is the upper limits in something like a 30-06 with pb? As far as dumb mistakes go, filing on a $20 mold aint so bad, done worse myself. If it was my 721 and mold I'd just try them from both cavities and see what happens, just keep it down in the light load range. Those low cost Remingtons shoot pretty good from what I've seen, just ugly as heck.

[geargnasher]

"One more thing, what kind of case mouth expander die are you using? Lee makes a universal expander die that sells for around $10 that goes from 22 to 45 calibers, it's well worth the money. For all-out accuracy and performance with non-checked boolits, the Lyman "M" die for your caliber can't be beat."

I am not using a case mouth expander die, i just started casting and i have only shot about 20 rnds so far of my cast loads with no problems. i dont think i need one, plus i reload with a LEE classic loader with does not use dies. I think they are unnecessary for me.

I am unfamilliar with slugging a bore, what do i need to do that?

First, let me say that your know-it-all-after-the-first-20-rounds is a very frustrating attitude to deal with when I'm trying to help you get started on the right foot.

First off, to say that you don't need a case mouth expander is pure, arrogant ignorance. Maybe you don't if you're ok with 2" groups at 25 yards at 800 fps, but you DO need a case mouth expander of some sort if you expect to get pb or unchecked boolits into your case without damaging the critical dimensions of the base band or pb. There is another way, though, since you're using hand tools, you can get by with a tapered punch to bellmouth the case, ball up some duct tape on the "hammered" end and bell them slightly with palm pressure. The case mouth should have just enough bell that you can "start" the boolit base into the mouth by hand and it will barely stick in there when you let go. After that, you can seat/crimp normally and will get less base deformation and no shaving.

Second, check out the sticky Suo Gan referred to above for bore slugging, He's trying to help you too. Driving a dead-soft lead slug through the bore and meausuring the groove dimension of the barrel is actually the very first thing you need to do before even buying a mould or sizer dies for your gun, and will save you much headache down the road.

Gear

[JT95]

Thanks for all the info (and sorry about the ignorant posts i have made) guess im a real Greenhorn in the casting world. I am gonna slug my bore tonight or tommorow, make that "case mouth expander" as you say, and maybe drop some cash for that LEE sizer.


just tryin to be as primitive as possible in this Very Gadget oriented world

[geargnasher]

Thanks for all the info (and sorry about the ignorant posts i have made) guess im a real Greenhorn in the casting world. I am gonna slug my bore tonight or tommorow, make that "case mouth expander" as you say, and maybe drop some cash for that LEE sizer.


just tryin to be as primitive as possible in this Very Gadget oriented world

Hey, no problem, and glad I didn't run you off. You can keep it pretty simple with a $26 Lee reloading press, a Lee push-through sizing die of the correct size, universal expander die, and an economy Lee "rgb" two-die set. Not saying you have to go with Lee or even that particular route, but just a suggestion.

Please don't let "primitive" dictate that you don't have a couple of different reloading books!!! If you had them, this thread wouldn't even have started. Might I suggest a Lyman 49th edition (currently on sale at Midway for $17 IIRC, must be about to get the new edition), and Richard Lee's reloading book, at the very least. Any of the others are great, too, Hornady, Speer, you name it. The Lyman cast bullet handbook is also pretty decent with instructions and loads aimed specifically at using cast. You don't have to have a degree in ballistic science to do some quality, fun, and safe reloading and shooting, but a few evenings in the recliner reading the first few chapters of a good reloading book or three will be time and money well spent for you.

Gear

[Suo Gan]

Thanks for all the info (and sorry about the ignorant posts i have made) guess im a real Greenhorn in the casting world. I am gonna slug my bore tonight or tommorow, make that "case mouth expander" as you say, and maybe drop some cash for that LEE sizer.


just tryin to be as primitive as possible in this Very Gadget oriented world

I for one didn't know squat about casting two years ago. I had a pot, a few molds, and I was rarin to go! Somehow I found a copy of the Fouling Shot, joined the CBA, and found my way here. I seriously doubt that I would have progressed at all if not for this site. I think many of us can say that to one degree or another. I am a hands on learner. I can read it a hundred times before I understand something. It is better with pictures, but just doing it helps me shorten the learning curve. So I read here. I have studied here a thousand hours over the last two years. There is constant reiteration, I take what I have learned to the bench and apply it, and make mistakes, and come back for more. My buddy gives me a hard time, chiding me about my graduate work in Boolitology. Other than the mainstream stuff...(.02 over bore, add a little tin to help it fill out [stuff to split hairs over BTW]) the one thing that I am getting to realize that it is important not to make boolits a process of the means justifying the ends. We are in this for boolits that shoot well, and are cheap. When you needlessly start making it harder than it has to be, then I think you are defeating the purpose...but whatever floats your boat. Intense study of alloy compositions is a lesson in torture for me, and have not made a damn bit of difference in my testing (all things being equal). Just keep it slow and simple it ain't that big a deal. And all of us have been the greenhorn.

Hope you enjoy your studies and all the cheap shooting. You will learn more about shooting and your rifles shooting cast then you ever did before. Welcome to the fraternity!