A Primer Question

[ron brooks]

I don't think it would hurt anything as long as I'm not shooting max or close to max loads but I wanted to check with all of you and see what you thought. I have over 5000 CCI 250 Magnum Rifle primers. Would it be okay to subsitute these for regular primers in both cst and jacketed loads?

Thanks,

Ron

[StarMetal]

Ron,

It wouldn't hurt, no. Might have to correct the charges some to get the same as you had before in performance.

Why don't you see if some of forum members would like to swap you for regular primers?

Joe

[ron brooks]

Joe,

Thanks, I really didn't htink it would, but better safe than sorry.

I don't know about swapping them, they are atbout 10 years, old, maybe a little older. The shipping could be a problem too.

Thanks,

Ron

[NVcurmudgeon]

I use CCI 250 or WW LR Magnum primers for all my cast rifle loads. Several comparison tests in my most accurate cast boolit rifle showed a small accuracy difference in favor of the Magnums. So, I use the Magnum primers in all my rifle cast loads, even though I can only prove it for sure in one rifle.

[StarMetal]

Bill,

If you saw a difference in that one rifle, that's good enough pardner. My neighbor just gave me 1000 Federal Large Rifle Match Primers. I certainly am going to try them out and also one pack of CCI small rifle magnum primers. I'll put them all to good use.

Hey you were lucky to get to shoot the Thompson aboard ship. We had those and M1's, probably other stuff, but the officers wouldn't let the enlisted shoot them. What a bummer. Hey I did scrounge up the empty 30-06 casings though.

Joe

[NVcurmudgeon]

Joe, that was a function of the Watch, Quarter, and Station Bill. My Repel Boarders station was the bridge, with Thompson. Needless to say, it was never required for real. "Repel Boarders" is such a historical, romantic phrase, evoking images of cutlasses and grapeshot!

[StarMetal]

Bill,

Well no wonder us Snipes didn't get to shoot. The rest of the ship's crew concidered us the "Harley Gang" of the ship. What was your rate?

Seems like a million years ago I was aboard that old Destroyer, Bill. You realize how obsolete most all those ships are now. I bet they don't have a handful that burn that old black thick bunker fuel. Now they're turbines and nukie. Those were good times.

Joe

[454PB]

I don't know about swapping them, they are atbout 10 years, old, maybe a little older.

!0 years old is new! I've been using up a bunch of primers bought cheap at a garage sale that are dated 1976. I've fired about 1000 of them so far, and not one failure.

[Buckshot]

Joe, that was a function of the Watch, Quarter, and Station Bill. My Repel Boarders station was the bridge, with Thompson. Needless to say, it was never required for real. "Repel Boarders" is such a historical, romantic phrase, evoking images of cutlasses and grapeshot!

.............I don't ever recall a "Repel all boarders" drill. Our ship did have a landing party which was armed. I wasn't on it. They had two 30 cal (M1919A1's? Aircooled anyway) and the guys were armed with M-14's. I only saw them shoot once and that was off the Dash Helicopter deck. They had to use bags of flour on the tripod legs of the machine guns to keep them from hopping all over.

They'd toss plastic bags full of trash off the bow, make a turn and then the guys would shoot at them.

They did call away the ship's landing party once and I suppose it was to repel borders, or to just be prepared. We'd been in a big storm in the Indian Ocean so they'd flooded a couple empty fuel bunkers with seawater. We were either in, or approching some straits going into the Persian Gulf and had 2 boilers lit off. They sucked a big slug of salt water. Since it doesn't burn real good the fires went out.

And as you know, when the fires go out, most everything winds on down and you're pretty much like a cork bobbing around. With both diesels (3 cyl Detroits. BIG cylinders) there was enough juice to run CIC and one gun turret with it's ammo and projectile hoists.

What really pissed me off was that the AC in the shop had naturally quit, and it was beginning to smell like old skivvies in there. Besides, the forward emergancy diesel was right across the ladder trunk from the shop door, so it was hot, stinky, AND loud. I went up on deck and it was dark, dark, dark! I could hear the pointer bell ringing on one of the gun mounts so I knew they were training it around for some reason. Maybe just to make sure it hadn't rusted to it's barrabet or something :-)

Anyway, I went back to the fantail and there was the ship's landing party. A gaggle of sailors with long sleeve shirts and their socks pulled up over their dungaree pant legs, wearing helmets, ammo belts, and slung M-14's. What I heard later was they were afraid we might run aground on one of those little countries there in the straits. I also heard they were afraid of a French frigate. I don't know what the story was with THAT. Maybe they were afraid they'd come to help us and crash into us :-) ?

Maybe it was French built but owned by an unfriendly? We didn't have any guns on the back either, BTW!

So that the big adventure for the ship's landing party.

..................Buckshot

[Shepherd2]

I've got some CCI magnum primers that are about 35 years old and as of a couple months ago still worked fine.

I recall the Repel Boarders and Boarding Party drills. On the Boarding Party drill we'd put a boat in the water with the armed party on board, take a couple laps around the ship and then hoist the boat back in.

My last ship was a fleet tug homeported in Key West. Our small arms consisted of Colt 1911s, a couple Thompsons, M1 Garands and a BAR. We had an XO who loved to shoot and we shot a lot. We had a Colt Ace and often when we were anchored in a good spot we'd have a turkey shoot. We'd set up a target frame on the fantail and run off some targets on the mimeograph machine. It cost 25 cents for 5 shots and the best score took the pot. The XO won about half the time and we figured he'd let others win just to keep us interested.

MY big gripe was throwing once used magazines over the side. Most of our ammo was in preloaded magazines. We'd empty a 1911 or a Thompson mag and chuck it over the side. Same with the Garand clips. One the rare occasions we got to shoot the BAR we had to load the mags and those we kept. The Gunners Mate didn't have room to store the others so over they went. Often I wished I had the 1911 magazines that I threw away.

[StarMetal]

Buckshot,

Interesting story. Seems sometimes you were in a different Navy [smilie=1:
We went through a hurricane out at sea, a real bona fide hurricane, we almost captsized and sunk....BUT never ever did our fires ever go out. That seems like, at least on a Destroyer, that it would be hard to do. Those boilers have two blowers each, and they both are running. They are steam driven turbines and they spin at between 6000 to 700 rpm. There is a tremendous force of air and there is a pretty doggone good force of exhaust coming out of the stacks. It's that force that helps keep sea water that waves over the stacks...out. Interesting your fires went out.

You are correct that when those boilers go out, that ship goes dead in the water...steam runs everything aboard ship. We were out on a test run from million some dollar rebuild and ...well we blew up all the boilers (they were Ford Boilers...hahahahahaha just kidding, I couldn't resist) and we went dead dead dead in the water. Willy, a second class boilerman, filled one boiler up with water and said it was okay and we lit it off and limped back into port...he lied...although it did bring us home...he did it to save the disgrace of being towed in by a tug boat.

Oh Buckshot, forgot that I never heard of any board party aboard our ship either.

Joe

[lovedogs]

Getting back to the original question... there is a difference in primers. It's kind of a peculiar and elusive thing. With some combinations it seems to make little or no difference. Don't ask why. It just is. But with some combinations it makes a lot of difference. As an example, let me state the case of my .30-30 Contender. In it if I use H335 powder I have to use a full two grains less powder when using the mag primer (CCI's). By the way, I've found, as stated in several manuals, that mag's work much better with slow and ball powders. I try to develop my loads in warm weather but use mag primers whenever possible. Then they will still work in the winter. Here in Mt. some powders just won't work with regular primers in cold weather. Yes, there's a lot of difference in primers. Try them and see what works and heed advice in manuals. They have the equipment to test things that we don't have access to.

[StarMetal]

It's only logical that primer performance is different, even among the same style between manufacturers. It's a known fact that very large amounts of a slow burning powder, large magnum rifle cases, ball powders, cold weather, and more require different primer requirements. So there's not doubt the flash made by a magnum primer, because of some of the requirements above, have either a hotter burn or longer burn. Obviously match or benchrest primers supposely are more uniform in their ignition.

So yes, primers are different.

Joe

[NVcurmudgeon]

Joe, SN, mostly deckape. My high school typing teacher was a WWII CDR. He said typing was very valuable in the service. He was right, I was Gunnery Dept Yeoman the last few months. My office was a converted 20mm magazne.

[Shepherd2]

Typing is a very valuable skill in the Navy. When I reported to my first ship they saw from my Enlisted Classification Record that I could type a little. The chief asked me if I wanted to be a deck ape or a yeoman. Took less than a second to decide that I liked typewriters better than paint scrapers.

[Buckshot]

............Joe, the slug of seawater was in the fuel feed, and not down the stack. Apparently the oil king didn't completely pump down before refueling or something, but they both had their feed systems full of water. Found out later that in that storm that one of the cold boilers had a bunch of firebrick fall down so we came home with only 3 steamable kettles. They were Babcock & Wilcox, BTW.

Shepherd2, I really think that the smaller the ship, the better the duty. Or I guess it also could be hell if the CO was a tyrant. Was your's a LT? Did you guys ever go overseas? Hard to think they'd send a fleet tug on a "Show the Flag" cruise :-)

...............Buckshot

[StarMetal]

Buckshot,

Yup, our boilers were Babcock Wilcox M type 600 pound with separate superheat side. Superheat temperatrue output was 850 degree. Interesting about old Naval fuel oil. You had to heat it to pump it. We had a oil heater in each boiler room. It was heated to 150 degrees. Funny that water did that, we never had that happen because no water ever got into the oil tanks. My best friend was oil king and we hung out together and never recall doing anything special to the many fuel tanks aboard the ship. I'll have to ask him next time I talk to him on the phone. He's just a hop and skip over in the next state from me, Virginia.

Joe

[PatMarlin]

My last ship was a fleet tug homeported in Key West. Our small arms consisted of Colt 1911s, a couple Thompsons, M1 Garands and a BAR. We had an XO who loved to shoot and we shot a lot. We had a Colt Ace and often when we were anchored in a good spot we'd have a turkey shoot. We'd set up a target frame on the fantail and run off some targets on the mimeograph machine. It cost 25 cents for 5 shots and the best score took the pot. The XO won about half the time and we figured he'd let others win just to keep us interested.


Oh man... what year was this?

Talk about dream weapons. I would like one of each.. well I've got one.. :mrgreen:

[Shepherd2]

Buckshot - You're right, our CO was a LT. He was a hell raiser in port but all business once we got underway. Best CO I ever had. There was nothing the officers and crew wouldn't do if he asked.

That fleet tug was good duty. We did a lot of work on experimental mines and torpedos. We ran shock tests on nuclear subs (large explosives involved). A couple times we sank old ships in shallow water for aircraft targets (small explosives involved). Seemed like every week we were doing something different. We weren't bored very often. We never crossed the ocean while I was onboard although the ship was capable of crossing. The thing was 205' IIRC. I rode out some bad storms and a couple hurricanes on that tug.

I had a CO that was a tyrant. He was a Captain sweating his promotion to Rear Admiral. Nothing and no one was going to get in his way.

Pat - That was 1962-63. We had a lot of fun shooting those old WWII weapons. My favorite was the BAR. A couple months ago I saw one at a machine gun shoot. You could shoot it for $10 but I needed to be elsewhere. There is another shoot in October and I'll make sure I can stay this time.

[georgeld]

Ron:

Damn it man, why didn't you mention those primers before you came up????

I've got about ten thousand LR's I'd swap a couple or more cartons with you.

Save them til your next trip up and let's trade then. I won't load up all these and bet you won't either. Box for box, ok?

[ron brooks]

George,

Sure if you have a use for the Magnum Rifle Primers I would be happy to.

Ron